C
CopticChristian
Guest
Unity,
Explain this.
Where do you get this Faith?
How do you know you are doing anything in Faith or not in Faith?
Drinking alcohol and smoking pot – what are your thoughts?
- Status
Explain this.
Where do you get this Faith?
How do you know you are doing anything in Faith or not in Faith?
A
andrewstx
Guest
And yet so many Evangelicals damage their temples with fried food, tons of sugar (sweet tea). I just don’t understand. My father church of Christ thought he was such a good Christian, but he had his first coronary in his early 40s and then died of a heart attack.
My Baptist mom thought it was ok to smoke cigarettes as long as she condemned those who smoked unapologetically. She died of emphasma.
I think there are socially acceptable drugs and unacceptable drugs. To me eating a lot of fats and sugar is as dangerous as the unacceptable drugs can ever be.
I admit to smoking pot when I was young, but I grew up.
I
Izdaari
Guest
I do drink in moderation. I do not smoke pot, but because I don’t especially like it, not out of religious conviction. The only Christian concern I would have with it is obeying the civil law, but it is now legal in my state.
I do believe that Christians ought never to allow themselves to be mastered by any substance or habit. We have only one master, God.
I do believe that Christians ought never to allow themselves to be mastered by any substance or habit. We have only one master, God.
B
Breizhour
Guest
I used to smoke pot, when i was 17-18 and not baptized. And so i love to drink too. But later on, 21 years old, it turns out that i would collapse while smoking, so i stopped. And i don’t regret it at all : pot makes be a slave of it. More and more, you only enjoy life by doing it, without, you feel that you have no purpose to have fun.
For alcohol, i enjoy big parties too. Now, i’m 31, i prefer to enjoy a fresh beer once in a month or so, i’m no big drinker. I also love to share glass of wine at home, with my wife. And, if there is nice diner or party, then ok i’ll get a bit drunk, but this is like few times in a year.
If we want to be real Christians, and sure it is hard, we need to keep our mind clear. I think too that avoiding watching violent tv programs is quite a positive thing. Ok, i love action movie and so on, used to see trash stuff, but now that i’m more looking for faith, i want to avoid those images that make us dirty. I do feel it now.
So, in general, try to get rid of those things, and do sports. That’s a great drug to use !
For alcohol, i enjoy big parties too. Now, i’m 31, i prefer to enjoy a fresh beer once in a month or so, i’m no big drinker. I also love to share glass of wine at home, with my wife. And, if there is nice diner or party, then ok i’ll get a bit drunk, but this is like few times in a year.
If we want to be real Christians, and sure it is hard, we need to keep our mind clear. I think too that avoiding watching violent tv programs is quite a positive thing. Ok, i love action movie and so on, used to see trash stuff, but now that i’m more looking for faith, i want to avoid those images that make us dirty. I do feel it now.
So, in general, try to get rid of those things, and do sports. That’s a great drug to use !
D
doormouse73
Guest
excellent post… thats what people need to hear…
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Bernward
Guest
Jesus drank alcohol, and His first recorded micracle at ‘the marriage feast at Cana’ shows that it was standard fare amongst the people of the day, and Jesus did not preach a word against it - he went further and brewed His own recipe, as a lesson to us about the new covenant. The water turned into wine demonstrating the added richness of the New Testament over the Old.
Since the days of Abraham, and the first ‘Holy Mass’ celebrated by Melchisedek, alcohol in the form of wine has been an integral part of the sacrifice to God. Fruit of the vine as a symbol of the joy that springs from the Word of God within us.
Over-indulgence causes loss of judgement and leaves us open to impure influences that lead us away from God. John 2: 8-10 says ’ feelings of coveting, sloth, melancholy, dullness, impurity, and folly of all kinds, have their origin here. For after such banquets the souls of the luxurious become no better than asses, being torn to pieces by such wild beasts as these (passions). Shall I say also how many pains and displeasures they have who wait upon luxury? I could not enumerate them all, but by a single principal point I will make the whole clear. At a table such as I speak of, that is, a sumptuous one, men never eat with pleasure; for abstinence is the mother of pleasure as well as health, while repletion is the source and root not only of diseases, but of displeasure. For where there is satiety there desire cannot be, and where there is no desire, how can there be pleasure? And therefore we should find that the poor are not only of better understanding and healthier than the rich, but also that they enjoy a greater degree of pleasure. Let us, when we reflect on this, flee drunkenness and luxury,’
Finally, there is the question of intoxication of the body, through either alcohol or marijuana,etc., and the goodness of the soul. The Holy Spirit nourishes, and intoxicates the soul in readiness for its onward journey, raising the spirits of the righteous and filling them with joy and the seven gifts through the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation. Frequent intoxication of the body obscures the mind from intoxication of the soul.
Since the days of Abraham, and the first ‘Holy Mass’ celebrated by Melchisedek, alcohol in the form of wine has been an integral part of the sacrifice to God. Fruit of the vine as a symbol of the joy that springs from the Word of God within us.
Over-indulgence causes loss of judgement and leaves us open to impure influences that lead us away from God. John 2: 8-10 says ’ feelings of coveting, sloth, melancholy, dullness, impurity, and folly of all kinds, have their origin here. For after such banquets the souls of the luxurious become no better than asses, being torn to pieces by such wild beasts as these (passions). Shall I say also how many pains and displeasures they have who wait upon luxury? I could not enumerate them all, but by a single principal point I will make the whole clear. At a table such as I speak of, that is, a sumptuous one, men never eat with pleasure; for abstinence is the mother of pleasure as well as health, while repletion is the source and root not only of diseases, but of displeasure. For where there is satiety there desire cannot be, and where there is no desire, how can there be pleasure? And therefore we should find that the poor are not only of better understanding and healthier than the rich, but also that they enjoy a greater degree of pleasure. Let us, when we reflect on this, flee drunkenness and luxury,’
Finally, there is the question of intoxication of the body, through either alcohol or marijuana,etc., and the goodness of the soul. The Holy Spirit nourishes, and intoxicates the soul in readiness for its onward journey, raising the spirits of the righteous and filling them with joy and the seven gifts through the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation. Frequent intoxication of the body obscures the mind from intoxication of the soul.
D
Darryl1958
Guest
As far as I know, the Catechism does not approve of recreational use of marijuana.
I
Izdaari
Guest
Does the Catechism say anything about it? And what does it say about Monty Python?
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Porknpie
Guest
Izdaari,
I recommend that you listen to the US Catechism for adults audiobook referenced in my signature.
There you can listen, learn and reflect on the teachings of the Catholic Church.
D
Darryl1958
Guest
Respect for health
2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.
Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.
2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it’s sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.
So much for the recreational use of drugs.
As for Monty Python, temperance would suggest that he only be smoked in very small quantities, and for health purposes only.
S
Scott_Walker
Guest
I would say that we have very strong scriptural advice on this topic:
“It is not the things that go into a man, but the things that come out of a man that make him good or evil.”
“By their fruits shall you know them.”
So what matters is not whether you get “high” from alcohol or marijuana or any other substance. What matters is how you behave, whether on that substance or not. Saying that one gets you high immediately and the other does not is pure sophistry. For most people, a single glass of wine is enough to affect your mood… in many cases to the positive. As CS Lewis writes, people can become much more open and develop much deeper relationships after sharing a glass of wine. This good thing cannot come from any source but God. But for some people, even a single glass of wine can turn them sad or angry.
This applies to ANY substance; if it causes you to be more caring and open, that cannot be a bad thing. However, if it causes you to isolate yourself from others, causes you to lie to hide your action, cause you to fail in your responsibilities, makes you sad or angry, or somehow harms your health, then it cannot be a good thing and cannot be from God.
For me, alcohol in moderation makes me more caring. In excess it makes me somewhat hostile. Moderation must be my guide there.
Marijuana isolates me and makes me paranoid, so none at all is best for me.
Too much coffee makes me jittery and short tempered. One cup in the morning is my limit.
Those guidelines apply to me, but it would be not only false, but wrong to generalize and say that everyone should follow my rules. Your reaction to drugs is personal and your guidelines need to be personal.
This is not to say that morality is relative. The moral issue here is absolute! If it causes you to behave badly it is WRONG.
I am leaving out the issue of how the right decision for you might lead others to make a poor decision for themselves. If your spouse or room mate is an alcoholic, you are clearly better off not drinking at all around them. You may even have an obligation to forego alcohol altogether out of respect for their temptation. Marijuana might present the same issue. Coffee, probably not.
At the age of 56, having made many grievous mistakes in my life, I now believe like Falstaff, that discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to these things. “There but for the Grace of God, go I.”
“It is not the things that go into a man, but the things that come out of a man that make him good or evil.”
“By their fruits shall you know them.”
So what matters is not whether you get “high” from alcohol or marijuana or any other substance. What matters is how you behave, whether on that substance or not. Saying that one gets you high immediately and the other does not is pure sophistry. For most people, a single glass of wine is enough to affect your mood… in many cases to the positive. As CS Lewis writes, people can become much more open and develop much deeper relationships after sharing a glass of wine. This good thing cannot come from any source but God. But for some people, even a single glass of wine can turn them sad or angry.
This applies to ANY substance; if it causes you to be more caring and open, that cannot be a bad thing. However, if it causes you to isolate yourself from others, causes you to lie to hide your action, cause you to fail in your responsibilities, makes you sad or angry, or somehow harms your health, then it cannot be a good thing and cannot be from God.
For me, alcohol in moderation makes me more caring. In excess it makes me somewhat hostile. Moderation must be my guide there.
Marijuana isolates me and makes me paranoid, so none at all is best for me.
Too much coffee makes me jittery and short tempered. One cup in the morning is my limit.
Those guidelines apply to me, but it would be not only false, but wrong to generalize and say that everyone should follow my rules. Your reaction to drugs is personal and your guidelines need to be personal.
This is not to say that morality is relative. The moral issue here is absolute! If it causes you to behave badly it is WRONG.
I am leaving out the issue of how the right decision for you might lead others to make a poor decision for themselves. If your spouse or room mate is an alcoholic, you are clearly better off not drinking at all around them. You may even have an obligation to forego alcohol altogether out of respect for their temptation. Marijuana might present the same issue. Coffee, probably not.
At the age of 56, having made many grievous mistakes in my life, I now believe like Falstaff, that discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to these things. “There but for the Grace of God, go I.”
C
CMSUVulcan
Guest
I believe in moderation when it comes to alcohol, and am not sure how I feel about marijuana. My thoughts on alcohol are that well those who try to say Jesus drank the first century equivelent of Welch’s Sparkling Grape Juice are doing so out of an ignorance (willful perhaps) of the customs and culture of the region and time of Christ’s Incarnation and this is combined with a spurious translation – or at least a poor understanding – of the languages of the Bible. As such, having a beer, having a glass of wine, or having a rum and coke is okay but doing it in excess (becoming drunk) is a sin. Its rather like eating. You can have a Wendy’s Triple Burger with biggie fries and a large milkshake every now and again, but if you are doing that constantly its not healthy for you and it is probably also glutony. Also, alcohol --provided that its done in moderation – especially red wine and beer has positive health impacts in that it can reduce the chances of getting certain types of cancer and heart disease. My only prohibitions on alcohol would be to be responsible for itand be considerate of others whom struggle with alcoholism themselves (in other words, if you know that someone has a drinking problem don’t do anything that might tempt them to drink).
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Mickey
Guest
One hit of the pot out there today will get you very stoned. What’s more…there is now evidence surfacing that marijuana smoking is connected with increased risk of having a stroke.
It’s bad news all the way around.
B
BA11
Guest
Jesus drank and turned water into wine. The Old Testement advocates “wine and strong drink”. The only thing condemned is drunkeness, and more specifically what takes place as a result of drunkeness.
If alcohol was good enough for Jesus in moderation, it’s good enough for me. Granted, wine of the bible was diluted and not the 12-20% wine we drink today, but I’m a 4-5% beer man myself
If alcohol was good enough for Jesus in moderation, it’s good enough for me. Granted, wine of the bible was diluted and not the 12-20% wine we drink today, but I’m a 4-5% beer man myself
K
Kush
Guest
Can someone explain to me, why christians get so hung up over things like morality laws (i.e. prohabition, weed, and all that).
I don’t ever recall Jesus getting himself all hung up over what roman law was at the time? I kinda remember him being a rebel. He had no issues with alcholol (and in my opinion, he would have been quite fine with weed).
Why do churches still get wrapped up in “government laws”. Jesus taught us to look inside, not to the romans.
I personally am very happy weed is becoming legal. Now we just need to find a way to make tobaco illegal, and the world will be a better place.
PS: Weed does bring you closer to god… many who have never tried will disagree, but I’m sure some know what I’m talking about.
Peace
I don’t ever recall Jesus getting himself all hung up over what roman law was at the time? I kinda remember him being a rebel. He had no issues with alcholol (and in my opinion, he would have been quite fine with weed).
Why do churches still get wrapped up in “government laws”. Jesus taught us to look inside, not to the romans.
I personally am very happy weed is becoming legal. Now we just need to find a way to make tobaco illegal, and the world will be a better place.
PS: Weed does bring you closer to god… many who have never tried will disagree, but I’m sure some know what I’m talking about.
Peace
M
Mickey
Guest
That is wrong. It does the opposite. It opens the door to the passions.
Lord have mercy!
Be watchful.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Exactly. It places a barrier between you and God and focuses on the flesh.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Just curious. What does “Catholic, Buddhist, Spirtual” mean? Sounds like confusion to me.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Morality laws are subject to tyranny. Its really that simple. The thinking resides in removing Divinity from the equation and man becoming divinity. When man deems himself divine or all-knowing with what is best for the rest, then man defines morality.
Closer to God in the sense that you were stoned and suddenly realized there was slightly more than the dimensions you thought there were. Should only serve to re-enforce why you should follow Christ correctly. Just saying, the only morality which is relevant is Christs.
L
LSK
Guest
I am not sure exactly what your point is with this post.
I don’t know any Catholics who want to ban alcohol. As for banning marijuana, I believe many Catholics have as many different opinions about this plant and its use as the general population.
Personally, I don’t care if you are smoking pot or drinking alcohol. I do care if your use of either substance infringes upon my rights to, say, drive safely down the street. I also care if your use of the stubstance (any substance) makes me responsible for supporting you, feeding you, caring for your children or otherwise taking care of you because you are too drunk or stoned to do it yourself.
I will always help people - Jesus told us to do that - but I have a bit of a problem taking care of people who either have a disease (such as an addiction to a substance) and refuse to treat that diesase. I have NO problem at all helping those who have recognized they have a disease and are doing their best to behave in a manner that proves they are ready to be a ‘small part of a greater whole’.
As for ‘weed’ bringing you ‘closer to God’ - that is the most asinine and ridiculous statement I have seen written on this forum in a long time. And believe me there have been some really asinine and ridiculous statements written here - just look at some of MY posts.
Now, as to your question as to why Christians care about secular laws - it is simply because we are a part of the secular world. We cannot simply withdraw and pretend the secular world does not exist. Many of us have done our best to influence laws so that the greater good is served. There is nothing particularly wrong with that - Jesus told us to render unto Cesear that which belongs to Cesear. Our participation in the secular world allows us to do just that - participate as Christians.
Again, I had a difficult time following your post so I hope I answered your questions. If I didn’t, please chalk it up to not quite understanding your point.
Oh - and just so you know - yes, I have tried marijuana and alcohol. Neither brings one closer to God. Both get you stoned and drunk.
simple.
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