Emotional Affair = Adultery?

[ktp]

First of all I wouldn’t know if they are being secretive about our talks, and for all I know the spouse could be reading my emails. I don’t know if they would be keeping it a secret or if it would even seem like something that would matter enough to keep a secret. (if I told my ex that I talked with someone else about stuff I would’ve either gotten laughed at or yelled at - sometimes things are kept from others just because they can’t understand or appreciate it)

Yes I have met the spouse. But I would never have the type of relationship with the spouse that I have with them. They are just different people with different interests and thoughts. The spouse is not Catholic, not even baptized so there would not be a discussion possible with them about adoration, prayer, etc…In the last email I was left to ponder about being a servant like Jesus and what type of respect that would give (or not give) a person.

I don’t know whether I would say things to them if their spouse was present - only because of the lack of understanding the spouse has. If I were to strike up a discussion with the two of them about adoration or the eucharist I think the discussion would be thrown off topic by the spouse…I don’t think it would happen so I wouldn’t even start one.

Terry

Terry, just for the sake of ease of speech, are you a man seeing a married woman, or a woman seeing a married man? I would ask the friend, if I were you, if the spouse knows about your level of contact, and if not, why not. Ask if the e-mails are going to a joint or personal account, and if the spouse knows about the account.

I have to agree that you are on a slippery slope. I have read that many affairs, even full blown physical ones, start with the participants actually justifying it because it’s all about God and religion, and even praying together. Some people say that praying together is far more intimate almost than sex.

It sounds, too, (having been on the other side of the fence), like things my husband said to me: he hid (although of course he then denies he hid her) this woman because I wouldn’t approve of (wouldn’t understand) her lifestyle. Not only is it a little insulting to be informed that I think I’m above someone and given no say in the matter, but he didn’t hide anyone else, and all his friends at work had similar lifestyles. I’m not there, and obviously I can’t understand the situation exactly, but it does sound a little the same: the spouse wouldn’t understand. We’re above and beyond the spouse.

It may be that neither of you even really consciously intend it that way, but I think it’s a safe bet it would feel that way to the spouse and cause some hurt feelings and damage in the marriage.

 

[cecilia97]

PS - thanks I enjoy this discussion and making me think about things differently:thumbsup:

Terry

Terry,

It sounds like you think you have a prayer-partner tor spiritual ype relationship with your friend. While the topics you discuss and your intentions may contain the highest of subject matter, it still sounds scary to me. Just your statements about, paraphrasing here, that you “wouldn’t say those things to the spouse because they wouldn’t understand and they are just such different people”…oh my goodness. That could have been ripped from the annals of my divorce. My spouse and his friend didn’t care for religion like I do, or discussing politics, or music and art. So they would get together and talk about other things without me…into the wee small hours of the night while I thought hubby was at work and her hubby and children were upstairs sleeping.

My point is this…yes your friend and the spouse may not share a lot in common, but that’s no excuse. You marry your spouse for SOME reason, there was SOMETHING between them at some point. And the energy your friend puts into your relationship could be spent rekindling the ailing marriage.

My ex and I shared a decade of history and MANY common interests. After 6 years of him spending more and more time with a “platonic” female friend, we shared nothing. Now we don’t share a marriage anymore.

My hubby swore he married me intending to grow old with me. It is indeed a slippery slope.

I’ll pray for y’all and y’all please pray for me!

c

 

[gmarie21]

Terry, just for the sake of ease of speech, are you a man seeing a married woman, or a woman seeing a married man? I would ask the friend, if I were you, if the spouse knows about your level of contact, and if not, why not. Ask if the e-mails are going to a joint or personal account, and if the spouse knows about the account.

I have to agree that you are on a slippery slope. I have read that many affairs, even full blown physical ones, start with the participants actually justifying it because it’s all about God and religion, and even praying together. Some people say that praying together is far more intimate almost than sex.

It sounds, too, (having been on the other side of the fence), like things my husband said to me: he hid (although of course he then denies he hid her) this woman because I wouldn’t approve of (wouldn’t understand) her lifestyle. Not only is it a little insulting to be informed that I think I’m above someone and given no say in the matter, but he didn’t hide anyone else, and all his friends at work had similar lifestyles. I’m not there, and obviously I can’t understand the situation exactly, but it does sound a little the same: the spouse wouldn’t understand. We’re above and beyond the spouse.

It may be that neither of you even really consciously intend it that way, but I think it’s a safe bet it would feel that way to the spouse and cause some hurt feelings and damage in the marriage.

Terry, I agree with ktp. Having been on your side, what you have described is the EXACT same thing that happened to me (except I’ve never been married). The affair I had with a married man started out as friends who shared the same faith over the period of a year and a half it went from innocent friendship to pregnancy. His wife also was not baptized and couldn’t stand the faith. If you want to cause a lot of pain for yourself and EVERYONE who is affected by this then don’t back away, but for your soul and your friend’s soul, walk away. It WILL be tough and it WILL hurt. Get involved in your parish. Hang out with some of the older couples. They’ll help you through this lonely time in your life.

 

[homewardangel]

I don’t know why it matters, but I am a man and my friend is a woman. But I am not “seeing” her. Our discussions are 95% email. I email early in the morning when I have time and she replies late in the evenings when she has time. We have only had a few face to face discussions in the 6 years that I have known her.

I don’t think its fair to say that my circumstance is “exactly” like anyone’s because I am not any one of you.

Maybe I will ask her about whether her husband knows we talk. Maybe I will tell her that some people feel like I am on a slippery slope - but I don’t want to give her the impression that I run around talking about her to anyone. Plus its not as simple as saying that I feel like her husband wouldn’t understand -actions speak louder than words. I don’t understand what effort is being put towards me that keeps her from “rekindling” anything with her husband. What effort - a reply to an email??? That takes less time than some of the replies on this thread has taken. I don’t think that I am keeping her from rekindling anything.

I don’t know if I understand where everyone is coming from. If I were emailing a man 1 or 2 times a month that would be alright?? But I can’t email a married woman 1 or 2 times a month? Does a man have to be single before I can have discussions with him? What if he’s gay? I don’t understand the emotional affair. I will have to check out that website that was posted

Terry

 

[cecilia97]

I don’t know why it matters, but I am a man and my friend is a woman. But I am not “seeing” her. Our discussions are 95% email. I email early in the morning when I have time and she replies late in the evenings when she has time. We have only had a few face to face discussions in the 6 years that I have known her.

I don’t think its fair to say that my circumstance is “exactly” like anyone’s because I am not any one of you.

Maybe I will ask her about whether her husband knows we talk. Maybe I will tell her that some people feel like I am on a slippery slope - but I don’t want to give her the impression that I run around talking about her to anyone. Plus its not as simple as saying that I feel like her husband wouldn’t understand -actions speak louder than words. I don’t understand what effort is being put towards me that keeps her from “rekindling” anything with her husband. What effort - a reply to an email??? That takes less time than some of the replies on this thread has taken. I don’t think that I am keeping her from rekindling anything.

I don’t know if I understand where everyone is coming from. If I were emailing a man 1 or 2 times a month that would be alright?? But I can’t email a married woman 1 or 2 times a month? Does a man have to be single before I can have discussions with him? What if he’s gay? I don’t understand the emotional affair. I will have to check out that website that was posted

Terry

Terry,

If it’s one or two times a month it might not be as serious as some of us think. I don’t remember you saying that before. But you did say you thought you might be in a friendship similar to what some of us were describing. None of us can “see” your situation, we can only give advice from our own experience. It did seem like you asked…

Honestly, I told my ex-husband that it wouldn’t have been fair to our marriage if he were spending that much time and energy on a friendship with another MAN, too. Emotional affairs don’t always lead to sex. In my husband’s case I suspect his has. But if I’d found out he was at a male buddy’s house for hours every week, pouring out his heart the way he did with his female friend, you bet we would have still had a problem. The damaging part is that one spouse is CONNECTING with another person the way they should be with their SPOUSE.

c

 

[a_cermak]

IMO, having been on the wife side, if your friend comes to you with problems instead of his spouse, it’s an affair. If he routinely vents to you ABOUT his spouse instead of taking the issues to her so they can be resolved, it’s a serious problem for him and his marriage.

Dear goodness! Am I committing adultery with my brother? We always kvetch about our partners with each other and we discuss problems we’re having with each other. Certainly we talk about issues with our parents with each other, issues with our children, politics, religion, hopes, wants, dreams everything’s game.

Of course, I know his partner. She’s good people, but not all that eager to participate in family gabfests (though as family she’d be welcome).

 

[cecilia97]

Dear goodness! Am I committing adultery with my brother? We always kvetch about our partners with each other and we discuss problems we’re having with each other. Certainly we talk about issues with our parents with each other, issues with our children, politics, religion, hopes, wants, dreams everything’s game.

Of course, I know his partner. She’s good people, but not all that eager to participate in family gabfests (though as family she’d be welcome).

I’m talking about doing this (sharing, complaining, discussing) while at the same time shutting your spouse out of those same parts of your life. Of course, we all talk to our family and friends about our lives. But when it becomes “instead of” your spouse, there’s a problem.

And you’re not doing it in secret, either.

c

 

[homewardangel]

I did ask for (name removed by moderator)ut from others, because I don’t know how things work and I hate to assume anything. But unfortunately, the last time that I received an email was 2 and a half weeks ago. That doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t have enjoyed emails more frequently, but I want to respect her space…or maybe she’s waiting for me to email I don’t really know.

So what does that mean? I have not talked about my spiritual feelings or involvement since that email. It makes for a very isolated life. I have tried to reach out to others, but unfortunately I am not very good at explaining things that I don’t understand so I end up getting reprimanded when I am just trying to understand how life works. And as cliche as it sounds, she does seem to understand many of the things that I deal with - or at least she is not judgemental towards my thoughts and feelings.

The damaging part is that one spouse is CONNECTING with another person the way they should be with their SPOUSE.

Now I have a question for you…what kept that connection from happening with your and your ex? Did they not try? Did they give up?

When I met my friend I was married and seemingly content. I just accepted how things were because that was all that I knew. It took maybe 6 weeks after meeting her for me to realize that things with me would never be the same. And believe me…I worked hard to distance myself from her. I think I was very cold and even rude to her to keep myself from talking the way that I needed to talk. And guess what. It didn’t matter that I didn’t talk to her and that I ignored her - I couldn’t talk to my wife so I was really stuck. I didn’t talk to the person that I could talk to and the person that I should talk to I couldn’t talk to.

But it did start me looking closer at my marriage and I realized that I was married to an alcoholic. That’s why I couldn’t have a discussion with her - it was like talking to a wall. I spent about 18 months trying to make it work and at that time my friend was moved into a different building. I never saw her for those 18 months - except maybe a minute here and there.
I got divorced and spent 2 years getting my annulment from the church without talking to her. Then finally when I had my mind clear I would send an email every few months and now maybe we email 2 times a month - 3 or 4 times for a really big discussion. I just don’t want to go down that slippery slope - as so many say.

But she didn’t cause my divorce, no matter how much we talk or didn’t talk. Just like I won’t be causing her divorce. My marriage was doomed, it probably shouldn’t have lasted as long as it did.
Terry

 

[cecilia97]

Now I have a question for you…what kept that connection from happening with your and your ex? Did they not try? Did they give up?

Terry

That’s a very personal question. Here’s my very personal answer.

I believe my husband totally gave up on our relationship. I don’t know why. If I knew WHY, we might not be divorced now. I’ve tried and tried but can’t find anything I did to push him away. I was supportive and we shared much in common during the 8 years we dated and the first 2 years of our marriage. I cooked, cleaned, tried to support him in everything he did, carried my end of the financial load, reached out to his family and friends, and we had a great sexual relationship until he pulled away from me. I EVEN encouraged/tolerated his friendship with his woman friend, and now I wish I had not!

After two years of marriage, his friendship with this other woman seemed to change. He moved into our guest bedroom and refused to sleep with me. He spent all but a few sleeping hours away from home, telling me he was at work. He would not talk to me about much more than what was for dinner.

Around this time, the “friend’s” husband of 15 years divorced her, believing they were lovers.

I eventually found out my husband was really at the “friend’s” house all those hours he said he was working. He was hiding money from me. He would not look me in the eye or hug me or kiss me at that point. When I insisted on counseling he went along, I don’t know why, because he hardly said 10 words during 2 months of sessions with the therapist.

My husband gave up. After two years of his BS I was not willing to put up with the kind of life he was asking me to settle for. I kicked him out and he filed for divorce. I’m bitter now but actually much happier without him.

I’ve heard reports his “just friend” is now pregnant. So much for platonic in his case!

c

 

[homewardangel]

c

I’m sorry for all of the heartache that you have been through. And it does no good to speculate the why’s and how’s of these types of situations.I believe you did the right thing. Possibly your husband was wanting that but was unsure how to deal with a separation or divorce. I know I wanted a divorce but felt like that made me a really bad person for wanting a divorce - that is what kept me holding on. It wasn’t that I loved my spouse, I just didn’t want to be a bad person.

I can’t speak for you or your ex, but as far as me connecting with my spouse - I thought we did have a connection when we were dating and married. But it turns out that it wasn’t much of a connection after all - I had just never had a connection of any type with anyone else before. Thats sad when I think about it, but its true. Then when I realized how people could have a connection with eachother and how good it could be - I needed that. But I couldn’t manufacture something with my spouse that was not there and they couldn’t understand what I wanted.

So now when I talk to my friend I enjoy what we have, and I wish I could have that every day in my life. Since I can’t have that with them, I am very happy to just have the friendship that I am able to have with them.

Terry

 

[cecilia97]

So now when I talk to my friend I enjoy what we have, and I wish I could have that every day in my life.

Terry,

You might have me confused withe others on this thread, if you look back at my posts you’ll see I haven’t asked you any questions.

I don’t know if you want advice but this is what I’d like to say to you: You could have that every day in your life with more than just this one person. Why not work on making/learning to make those connections with other people. Even if your one close friendship is healthy, it’s not the best for us as humans and social beings to only have one important relationship. You’re worth it and you have things to offer others.

just my two cents

c

 

[homewardangel]

No, I realized that you didn’t ask me any questions, I was just asking you a question. To clarify this part of your post,

The damaging part is that one spouse is CONNECTING with another person the way they should be with their SPOUSE.

because so often people have a bad experience and then expect similiar experiences in the future to be the same way. It doesn’t always work that way. It doesn’t work that way with good experiences either - but we are only human and want to avoid pain.

I am going to email my friend if I have time tonight, because this discussion has been theraputic for me. Its made me look at things differently and how different every person is. As for myself, I know that God created me as a rational being with ethics to judge healty boundaries. I realize that its unfortunate that so many others are not very rational. But I am and I will maintain my friendships with others who are rational beings and able to use their mind.

Have you seen the movie “Akeelah and the Bee”? I loved that movie and there is a line that I use on my kids, to help them understand self control.

Akeelah was being coached by an older gentlemen who had won spelling bees. Of course this girl was scared and nervous - she was only 11 years old. He told her “Sometimes your mind has to be smarter than your body” I love that line. Not only does it apply to fear - but this topic and sooooo many other human actions.

Terry

 

[sallybirchwood]

I talked to my sister this weekend about her relationship with her boss. She blew off my concerns and told me that her boss is just her best friend. Their relationship would not hurt her marriage. She did admit that she was attracted to him but could control her actions towards him. I fear that she is blind about her emotions and could be used by her boss.

 

[gmarie21]

I talked to my sister this weekend about her relationship with her boss. She blew off my concerns and told me that her boss is just her best friend. Their relationship would not hurt her marriage. She did admit that she was attracted to him but could control her actions towards him. I fear that she is blind about her emotions and could be used by her boss.

She has already hurt her marriage. Her HUSBAND should be her best friend, NOT her boss. PM if you’d like, I can give you my email if she wants to know the slippery slope she’s on. Her marriage is already damaged and she is already in an affair. I can tell her the pain she’ll be going through and causing.

 

[cecilia97]

Her HUSBAND should be her best friend, NOT her boss. QUOTE]

AMEN! I can’t count the number of times I said that to my husband and our therapist.

Yes, I do have friends I’ve always referred to as “best” friends but once I was married I considered that a term of endearment…my real best friend was my hubby.

cecilia

 

[Teelynn]

k-

After going thru the same senario, I figured out the REASON for all the self justification is that emotional affairs 1st of all are much harder to define, and actually the popular consensus is that if there is no physical affair there is no affair. (nothing could be further from the truth, however I find it to be a popular mindset)
Mine actually told me to grow up and not to be so ridiculous about a casual frienship. (that he compared to the way he felt about his best friend many years ago) The problem is there is nothing tangible to base anything on. Make any sense?

Tee

 

[sallybirchwood]

I had a long talk with my husband last night about my sister and her boss. He too feels something is wrong. He basically felt that they should not have been working together alone in the first place. Too many opportunities for conversations to turn personal. My husbands company has a rule about opposite sex people traveling or eating meals alone. It evolved from problems that happened when two people worked too closely together. He suggested he should have a talk with my sister’s husband because she is blind to the problem. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[YinYangMom]

I had a long talk with my husband last night about my sister and her boss. He too feels something is wrong. He basically felt that they should not have been working together alone in the first place. Too many opportunities for conversations to turn personal. My husbands company has a rule about opposite sex people traveling or eating meals alone. It evolved from problems that happened when two people worked too closely together. He suggested he should have a talk with my sister’s husband because she is blind to the problem. Thanks for all of your help.

Sallybirchwood, do not go to your sister’s husband with this.
It is not your place to reveal such things

Is there some way you could find out what the policy is at your sister’s place of employment regarding corporate travel? If it’s a larger corporation it might even be online…

I’m thinking the way to help your sister, since she’s in denial or naive, is to file a complaint with her bosses boss. Certainly he must have someone he reports to.

Isn’t this a little bit like the Hastert situation??? If people lower down the chain are aware of breached policies which could open the organization up to lawsuits and criminal charges they are obliged to report the matter up the chain so that those ultimately liable have the opportunity to correct the matter before it gets to that point?

Just a suggestion.

 

[gmarie21]

Sallybirchwood, do not go to your sister’s husband with this.
It is not your place to reveal such things

Is there some way you could find out what the policy is at your sister’s place of employment regarding corporate travel? If it’s a larger corporation it might even be online…

I’m thinking the way to help your sister, since she’s in denial or naive, is to file a complaint with her bosses boss. Certainly he must have someone he reports to.

Isn’t this a little bit like the Hastert situation??? If people lower down the chain are aware of breached policies which could open the organization up to lawsuits and criminal charges they are obliged to report the matter up the chain so that those ultimately liable have the opportunity to correct the matter before it gets to that point?

Just a suggestion.

In an earlier post I thik she said that her sister works for a man who has a home based business. He IS the top and only boss.

 

[ktp]

Sallybirchwood, do not go to your sister’s husband with this.
It is not your place to reveal such things

Throwing out a thought for discussion, hopefully, as to what’s the right thing to do.

YinYangMom, as the sister, I might come down on the same side of the fence as you on this: going to the husband is most likely inviting a lot of family stress, accusations of interference, etc.

But as the spouse wondering just what went on with my husband and a couple of these female friends, it is extremely frustrating to know that his family and co-workers, and anyone who knew the truth took that stance, that it’s not their business, and therefore, I was the fool kept in the dark, not fully understanding why my marriage never got better all these years. To this day, I wonder if my husband was seeing this woman before we ever separated, and if THAT is the real reason my sister in law pushed him so hard to divorce me. It would make sense, which doesn’t mean it’s the truth, and yet if it IS the truth, I’m still being lied to about what the separation was really about. It’s unpleasant living with lies, and wondering just what his family knows that I don’t, and the knowledge that no one who knows will tell me the truth, because they don’t want to get involved.

And yet… I can understand from their point of view why they don’t want to. Especially now, everyone is hoping it just blows over. But I’m not sure the knowledge that I’ve been lied to on such an important issue can ever just blow over without someone finally telling me a story that makes sense with the facts I know.

Thoughts?