Emotional Affair = Adultery?

[sallybirchwood]

My sister took a job working part time with an accountant alone in his home office. He is the owner of the company. I guess my husband wants my sister’s husband to know of what is going on so he (the husband) can step back and look at what is going on in his wife’s live. It is also affecting my sister’s three kids as well. It seems her husband is doing all of the running to sports and school events. She doesn’t seem to have the time for them because of her job. As my husband said last night, they do not belong working alone together.

Sally

 

[Ruth17]

To the OP: What did you do/not do to cause your wife to wander? A few years ago someone gave me a verse from the Bible that says that whatever a wife does, wrong though it may be, the husband is held accountable. I wrote down the chapter and verse, now cannot find it. Someone here or Jack van Impe? may know which one it is. It doesn’t absolve the wife, but it does make the point that as the head of household and spiritual leader, the husband needs to take responsibility for what agoes on under his roof.

I agree with you that the husband should be the spiritual leader, but to be reponsible for his wifes actions is crazy… if that were the case women would be blameless and we could continue to blame everything on men. Females have minds of their owns, you do not know exactly what was going on in your wifes heart or head, human beings are great at putting up fascades. Whereas there could have possibly been more leading on the husbands part, he didnt tell her to go an have an affair… it was her choice.

 

[YinYangMom]

My sister took a job working part time with an accountant alone in his home office. He is the owner of the company. I guess my husband wants my sister’s husband to know of what is going on so he (the husband) can step back and look at what is going on in his wife’s live. It is also affecting my sister’s three kids as well. It seems her husband is doing all of the running to sports and school events. She doesn’t seem to have the time for them because of her job. As my husband said last night, they do not belong working alone together.

Sally

Oh yes, sorry I forgot about that…

I suppose it depends upon how close your husband is with your sister’s husband. Whoever reveals this to the husband needs to do so out of love…with the intention to help heal the marriage, and they’d need to brace themselves to be part of the solution.

Sounds like the husband is already stressed. Where is the time he will need to mend the marriage if he’s told it’s at risk? Will you and your husband offer to do all the driving around, or take the kids for a long weekend while your sister and her husband talk this out? Will you offer the name of a Catholic marriage counselor and then offer babysitting so that they can seek counseling? Will you and your husband go to mass with them weekly until the marriage is healed?

I agree your sister is naive or in denial. I believe your obligation is to continue working on getting her to see how this job is affecting her marriage - whether or not there’s an emotional affair going on. The job hours are too demanding for a married mother of three, plain and simple. If she wants a career and a job with lots of travel she needs to do that after the kids are grown. Her Catholic obligation is first and foremost to her husband and children, not to herself.

Help her to open up to you about why this job means more to her than her marriage. (I hope she doesn’t watch Desparate Housewives)…then help her put things in perspective. This could be a phase, it could be innocent (for now), but yes, left unchecked it could easily cross the line and you want to protect her from that. Once you get her to talk about what she loves about the job - if everything she says revolves around the boss, and not the nature of the work - then that’s how you get her to step back and listen to herself…so that she can see the warning signs herself. If what she says is about the work, and not the boss, then help her find another job to meet those same needs without the time/travel commitments.

 

[hasikelee]

I don’t understand why the Church seems to be silent on emotional affairs between a married person and an unmarried person.

I have yet to find anywhere a condemnation of an “emotional affair” anywhere in Catholic circles

What do you mean by Catholic circles? In some circles of Catholics, birth control and abortion is just dandy. It doesn’t mean they represent Christ’s teachings.

I think Christ’s condemnation of looking at women lustfully is a clear sign that emotional affairs exist. Remember the verse about how a man who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery?

That being said, I think the Church is not as focused on it because, besides having its hands full with other things like rampant premarital sex, abortion and scandals (things that are tangent and easily provable) emotional affairs can be hard to determine.

It’s not as if you can open up your partner’s brain and see if he or she is in love with someone else.

Sure, there are signs. But how provable are most cases? It could easily become judgmental and wrong to just go around accusing others or making statements against one spouse, let alone granting annulments or doling out excommunications.

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t understand why the Church seems to be silent on emotional affairs between a married person and an unmarried person. I have yet to find anywhere a condemnation of an “emotional affair” anywhere in Catholic circles.
!

well I was never in any doubt about the danger of “emotional affairs” but then I had the advantage of a good Catholic education. they come under the heading of “near occassions of sin” to be avoided lest we fall into sin, and that may become sinful themselves if encouraged.

 

[Teelynn]

What do you mean by Catholic circles? In some circles of Catholics, birth control and abortion is just dandy. It doesn’t mean they represent Christ’s teachings.

I think Christ’s condemnation of looking at women lustfully is a clear sign that emotional affairs exist. Remember the verse about how a man who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery?

That being said, I think the Church is not as focused on it because, besides having its hands full with other things like rampant premarital sex, abortion and scandals (things that are tangent and easily provable) emotional affairs can be hard to determine.

It’s not as if you can open up your partner’s brain and see if he or she is in love with someone else.

Sure, there are signs. But how provable are most cases? It could easily become judgmental and wrong to just go around accusing others or making statements against one spouse, let alone granting annulments or doling out excommunications.

My point exactly!!! There is NOTHING that you can put your finger on. There is nothing that one can prove. Friendships between the opposite sexes that are married are very vague and COULD very well be innocent as far as the Church AND society goes. My spouse told me several times in the heat of our dilemma “There is NOTHING that you can prove because I have never touched her, you’re ridiculous!” Yet when I approached him about the lying and sneaking he replied: “Because I knew you would overreact just like you are now, over nothing.” In that respect alone emotional affairs are much worse as there is nothing tangible. The betrayed spouse can very easily be made to look crazy…by everyone.

Tee

 

[Teelynn]

Just a follow up to my previous post. That’s not to say that GOD doesn’t know what’s going on, or the betrayed spouse. And He does not approve trust me!!! One has surely betrayed his/her spouse emotionally which often leads to physical betrayal. (near occassion of sin and forsaking all others)

Tee

 

[YinYangMom]

Just a follow up to my previous post. That’s not to say that GOD doesn’t know what’s going on, or the betrayed spouse. And He does not approve trust me!!! One has surely betrayed his/her spouse emotionally which often leads to physical betrayal. (near occassion of sin and forsaking all others)

Tee

Teelynn,

For whatever it’s worth, it seems the best way to work with that situation you described where the other party just doesn’t ‘get’ that what they are doing is a betrayal of their marriage vows is to educate them on what a sacramental marriage is supposed to be.

How that happens, I’m not certain…perhaps retreats, perhaps going to see Christopher West talk on Theology of the Body…there are many resources available these days.

When people compare their lives to those around them, and those around them are not living spiritually guided lives then they how are they to recognize when things are out of whack? Somehow we need to pull those people away long enough to expose them to correct teachings, correct examples, so that the veil could be lifted from their eyes and finally they can see the error of their ways. Only then will they desire to change - not because we told them to - but because they want a better life for themselves…they want to honor their vows the right way this time, and so on.

 

[Teelynn]

YYMom,

Ah yes, and therein lies the challenge. Only intense prayer and the grace of God led us out of this insidious monster of a situation, and believe me I fought for my marriage harder than I have ever fought for anything. We did some self Christian Counseling on the subject thru a Christian program designed for affairs both physical and emotional or both. I believe that only then did my spouse see what he was doing was indeed a betrayal. It took a year of intense communication. I believe as time goes on he is seeing it more and more. As I have said before; We were indeed walking the fires of h— and God took us by the hand and led us out the other side.

My point I think is that in the realm of betrayals to one’s spouse, emotional cannot be proved. As hasikelee pointed out; “You cannot get inside your spouse’s head and see if he/she is in love with someone else.” And also they feel justified in having a “close friend” of the opposite sex, as it is looked upon by all as sometimes even healthy and needed whether or not people are married or single. It is too easily justified by the betrayer in his own mind. If he or she were to cross the line to a physical relationship,(easily done by the way) that is when they would not be able to justify the relationship even in their own mind. Until then, to them and society as a whole, no harm done.

Tee

 

[lotusblossom]

I’m sorry this happened to you and that your wife was given the advice she was given and ran with it.

I am newly married and during our marriage prep, esp. during Engaged Encounter weekend, that subject was talked about extensively. Affairs aren’t just physical, but for women, more often than not are emotional and we were warned about the dangers of having friendships with members of the opposite sex who were not friends of our spouses primarily.

You and your wife will be in my prayers.

 

[ktp]

We did some self Christian Counseling on the subject thru a Christian program designed for affairs both physical and emotional or both. I believe that only then did my spouse see what he was doing was indeed a betrayal. It took a year of intense communication. I believe as time goes on he is seeing it more and more.

What program was this? What made him willing to listen? I am in a very similar situation. What made him finally willing to listen? All my attempts to tell him this was hurtful and wrong end with him yelling at me, telling me I’m being ridiculous, and insisting there is nothing odd about hiding a female friend for thirteen years-- while at the same time denying he hid her at all, and at other times saying he HAD to because, look at how irrational I’m being, and he knew I would be, even though I’ve never had a problem with any woman he’s been friendly with.

 

[hasikelee]

My point exactly!!! There is NOTHING that you can put your finger on. There is nothing that one can prove. Friendships between the opposite sexes that are married are very vague and COULD very well be innocent as far as the Church AND society goes. My spouse told me several times in the heat of our dilemma “There is NOTHING that you can prove because I have never touched her, you’re ridiculous!” Yet when I approached him about the lying and sneaking he replied: “Because I knew you would overreact just like you are now, over nothing.” In that respect alone emotional affairs are much worse as there is nothing tangible. The betrayed spouse can very easily be made to look crazy…by everyone.

Tee

Tee, what you describe could very well be more than just an emotional affair. The way you talk about being made to look crazy, or wondering what is reality and what is not, is usually a very classic red flag of abuse.

The abuser will actually lead the victim to believe that he or she is going insane, and turn others against the victim as well.

There may be more going on with your partner than just infidelity. Please look into learning more to prepare yourself either to attempt repairing the relationship or to protect yourself from escalated abuse.

 

[Teelynn]

ktp,

The same exact thing as we have gone thru. We took a course called “Marriage Builders”. They have a website that you can order literature, courses, and have a discussion forum. They are Christian based. We really were at the end of our rope. The marriage was pretty much in shambles over this. We were both so miserable, I just asked him if he would be willing to take the course with me, that maybe it might help both of us to understand where the other was coming from, and he agreed. We did not finish the course but took it long enough for both of us to see things in somewhat of a different light. My dh did not have his friend for 13 yrs., but he was close to her for about 3 to 4 years. The reaction he had to my discussion of the situation was EXACTLY the same as your h’s reaction. EXACTLY! (I was told I was childish, ridiculous, a green eyed jealous monster over nothing------------I have NEVER had a jealous bone in my body) I take it you are still in the middle of your turmoil with this? Have you thought about counseling? (preferrably Catholic or at least Christian) Would he be willing to go? Email me if you need more info. I will pray hard for you.

Tee

 

[ktp]

ktp,

The same exact thing as we have gone thru. We took a course called “Marriage Builders”. … We did not finish the course but took it long enough for both of us to see things in somewhat of a different light.

And you said he now sort of gets it? Did he truly convince himself, before, that this was not a problem? Was his friend also a secret from you?

The reaction he had to my discussion of the situation was EXACTLY the same as your h’s reaction. EXACTLY! (I was told I was childish, ridiculous, a green eyed jealous monster over nothing------------I have NEVER had a jealous bone in my body)

Yep. He’s had plenty of female friends, and I’ve NEVER objected or been in the least concerned. I keep pointing out to him that there are only two women we’re talking about, out of many female friends and co-workers.

I take it you are still in the middle of your turmoil with this? Have you thought about counseling? (preferrably Catholic or at least Christian) Would he be willing to go?

I am in turmoil, although he seems to think that as long as he’s told me a story he likes, that I have to believe it and all’s now well. I know he’s lied/lying(?) to me, and I find it impossible to feel any emotional connection with someone who lies to me. I constantly wonder what I’m going to find out next. We’ve been through a mysterious rash of flat tires after he ended contact with the ‘friend’ here, and a 6 week spate of hang-ups after he broke off contact with the 13 year friend (who is many states away). I’m angry that he has opened me and our family up to that and quite possibly knows for sure that it was them and is covering up for them. He pretty much shrugs when I point out he’s broken my trust and there is none left-- he has denied any responsibility for that situation and left me to deal with it on my own. I now understand how well he can lie and cover up, and I wonder often if or when I’ll get a letter in the mail, or a phone call, from one of these women. I have dreams about finding out he’s got one or two more children than I do.

We went to Retrouvaille, but it wasn’t much help to us because he was still getting cutesy daily e-mails from the local friend, and still in touch with the long term one, too (which I didn’t realize till many months later-- also discovered he runs to her for sympathy when he’s angry at me. That pretty much undermines my efforts to rebuild our marriage.)

We saw a highly recommended Catholic counselor for awhile, who did push him hard on the need to be an open book and to allow me at his work. But he was not the ‘open book’ he promised to be. The counselor’s ultimate answer was for me to ‘pretend everything is okay,’ and to dismiss lies as, “Hmm, that’s inexplicable,” and let it go.

I do have the name of a Christian counselor who specializes in alcohol issues (dh doesn’t drink, but has characteristics of an adult child) and marriage, but he is out of network (read, expensive for us), so I’ve been dragging my feet and contemplating the overwhelming job of researching the 100+ counselors available in our insurance.

I’m also going to al-anon meetings weekly.

What a depressing post. Believe it or not, I’m not actually this way all the time. I keep myself busy with my children and lots of things I enjoy. It’s just that I come here for Catholic-centered ways to deal with this particular problem.

I’ve been to Marriage Builders, and will go look at their course. He has made a lot of changes in other areas, and I do think he cares about me and the marriage. I think he just desperately hopes this will go away if he ducks and denies it often enough. But he might be willing to do the marriage builders course.

 

[ktp]

The abuser will actually lead the victim to believe that he or she is going insane, and turn others against the victim as well.

That has been going on here, too. I have spent so much time trying to figure out how his stories could be true, and how I could have misunderstood so often, etc. It helped me immensely, although it was sad, to finally acknowledge my husband is a liar. This is exactly why many women actually feel relieved to find concrete proof of an affair: it is also proof that they are NOT crazy, and they CAN trust themselves and their instincts and God-given intelligence.

 

[Teelynn]

hasikelee,

You betcha it’s abuse. BUT, this type of abuse is one of the hallmark charactaristics of emotional infidelity. The betrayer is desperately trying to shift the responsiblity on to his/her spouse in order to: (1) justify their actions (which society justifies anyway as long as the physical line is not crossed) and (2) they are usually trying desperately to hold on to the marriage while keeping their “friend or friends” at the same time. and (3) find it too hard to admit even to themselves that they are involved in something illegitimate to their marriage.(too shameful to admit)
I do not believe that this type of abuse is just abuse in order to control a person, but they are trying desperately to control the situation. It is EXTREMELY typical.

ktp,

This friend was actually a mutual friend (more his than mine) that they were in an organization together. Saw each other weekly. Several years back, a very close friend of mine reminded me that I had made a comment to her that I felt uncomfortable as he talked about her all the time. But then I dismissed it for another 3 years. (life takes over plus I think a little bit of denial) Red flags went up with me big time when he started to meet her for dinner before meetings semi often and when I (this was by accident) found her number on his recent calls (cell phone) after meetings adjurned in the spring.

Yes, I think he truly convinced himself this was ok as they were only “good friends”. The more information (in a calm manner) that I was able to give him, I think he FINALLY started to see that he was definitely at the very least on a slippery slope, and more importantly that he had hurt me and this situation had damaged our marriage tremendously. (this however took more than a year for him to see) Prayer was the answer for me, and when I was too distressed, I asked the Holy Spirit to help me, as God knew what I was going thru. He also knew as I pointed out to him several times, that I had never in our 16 years of marriage been jealous of his female friends of which he has had a few but they were never as important to him as this one. I am not a jealous person, never had a jealous bone in my body. (I have my faults, trust me, but THAT is NOT one of them)

The counselor who told you to pretend that everything was ok when he is not up front with you should probably not be counseling people. Affairs whether emotional, physical or both are an ADDICTION…so keep going to al-anon, it is a great source of help. You need to take care of yourself right now. AND KEEP PRAYING. Prayer is very very powerful. I will pray for you as well.

I am wondering if anyone here has a resource for Catholic Counseling dealing with marital problems, particularly affairs of the heart? Any ideas??

Tee

 

[cecilia97]

hasikelee,

You betcha it’s abuse. BUT, this type of abuse is one of the hallmark charactaristics of emotional infidelity. The betrayer is desperately trying to shift the responsiblity on to his/her spouse in order to: (1) justify their actions (which society justifies anyway as long as the physical line is not crossed) and (2) they are usually trying desperately to hold on to the marriage while keeping their “friend or friends” at the same time. and (3) find it too hard to admit even to themselves that they are involved in something illegitimate to their marriage.(too shameful to admit)
I do not believe that this type of abuse is just abuse in order to control a person, but they are trying desperately to control the situation. It is EXTREMELY typical.

Ugh…reading these thoughts from you gals is just like reading my own brain on a page! My husband did that too…had me feeling totally crazy and guilty for not “trusting” him. We’re divorced now and I still have moments of doubt…was I really being irrational, etc…even though logically I KNOW what he was doing was wrong. After the divorce was finalized, he threw yet another temper tantrum, threatening legal action and telling me I had to pay him back for a bunch of expenses, including the STDs test my lawyer ordered because of his suspected infidelity! It couldn’t have been about the money, it was such a small amount, he’d already paid it, and he makes a good income. It was a last-ditch effort to appear to still have CONTROL over his own life.

I’m so sorry to hear there are so many other people going through this. It can be totally maddening.

cecilia

 

[buttonrose07226]

yes. i agree…husband is accountable on whatever happens on his roof…as i had an emotional affair before for my husband doesnt have time with me nor want to talk to me…i just ended up for i know its a sin and reminded by my conscience.

 

[Teelynn]

yes. i agree…husband is accountable on whatever happens on his roof…as i had an emotional affair before for my husband doesnt have time with me nor want to talk to me…i just ended up for i know its a sin and reminded by my conscience.

If this post does anything at all, it might make people AWARE of how dangerous close friendships of the opposite sex are when you are married. BE AWARE is the key.

My H and I were blessed to come out of this thing at all, but I am still taking this one day at a time and it has almost been 2 years since my discovery of what was going on. Emotional Affairs are an INSIDIOUS EVIL INCARNATE, which I am sure Satan himself has divised to destroy marriages, families, and people IMO. It is a very sneaky thing which most of the time the betrayer doesn’t even realize he/she is in until it is too late. Not to say that physical affairs are not the same thing, but they often develop after a “close friendship.”

Wish there were a forum just for people that had experienced EA’s. (have not found one as yet) They are on the rise as far as I have read, and they do not discriminate as far as culture, religion, or wealth or anything else for that matter.

Blessings,
Tee

 

[ktp]

You betcha it’s abuse. BUT, this type of abuse is one of the hallmark charactaristics of emotional infidelity. …
I do not believe that this type of abuse is just abuse in order to control a person, but they are trying desperately to control the situation. It is EXTREMELY typical.

So true. Some of what my husband has done most definitely falls under descriptions of ‘abuse.’ But he is not ‘an abuser,’ not in the sense that he’s trying to be cruel. But I’m sure it’s a whole lot easier to justify his ‘friendship’ when he convinces himself and everyone around him that I’m just awful, and gets them all feeling sorry for him.

ktp,

This friend was actually a mutual friend (more his than mine)

Just musing out loud… I guess in many ways that would make it even worse. Although, I guess it hurts no matter what. In our case, both (all?) these women are women at work and if they’re truly just friends and I’m so clearly not wanted in his friendships, that hurts in its own way.

Prayer was the answer for me, and when I was too distressed, I asked the Holy Spirit to help me, as God knew what I was going thru.

Your steady reminders are helping me to keep praying all day. I admit, in the last 18 months, since I have really realized what has been going on, I have felt more like pushing him in front of a moving truck than praying for him. I’m sure that people here are praying for me, because after posting, I find myself opening up in ways that were impossible before. I have, in the last week or so, found it possible to pray sincerely for my husband for the first time in years.

The counselor who told you to pretend that everything was ok when he is not up front with you should probably not be counseling people.

I confess, I am disappointed beyond words. He was highly, enthusiastically recommended by a priest we like.

My husband did that too…had me feeling totally crazy … I still have moments of doubt…was I really being irrational, etc…even though logically I KNOW what he was doing was wrong

I think this is part of what is so insidious and evil (to steal teelynn’s words) about affairs, particularly emotional ones. Not only is it the pain of betrayal, but your spouse, in order to protect himself, has to make you question your own intelligence, judgment, character, and literally even your sanity at times. It’s bad enough to have someone else question those things, but when you yourself begin to question them, and question whether you can trust anything you hear and see… it’s a horrible feeling.