Evangelism question

[Janet_S]

Brosam: Really? Prove it. Pretend that I’m an unsaved person and tell me how to be saved

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A quick explanation is: salvation is a gift accepted through faith in Jesus Christ. It also requires sorrow for your sins, obedience to faith, and conversion.

Brosam: Given what Roman Catholicism did to the men who tried to put the Bible into the hands of the people, are you absolutely sure you want to go down this road?

Sure, I’ll be happy to go down that road. Why would the Church have monks and nuns copy the Bible, by hand, for 1000+ years if it didn’t want people to have the Bible? Why didn’t the Church burn up all copies of Scripture or let them dry up and blow away? Why have there always been Scripture readings included in the Mass? Where did you learn Church history, from The Trail of Blood? You might want to question this version of Church history since it has been debunked and since it makes no sense. The Church wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of preserving the Bible if its goal was to keep it away from people. There would be no Bible if it weren’t for the Church. Even Martin Luther admitted this.

Brosam: What about them? How am I supposed to extrapolate the Gospel from the Beatitudes?

Oh, sorry. You’re probably not familiar with them because they don’t support your theology. We Catholics, though, read all the Bible.

Brosam: According to you. The Bible, on the other hand, always speaks of salvation in the present tense (ie. “the salvation you have received”).

No, the Bible speaks of salvation in the past, present, and future tenses. It is a process according to the Bible.
past tense: Ephesians 2:5 (NKJV) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)
**present tense **(ongoing): 1 Peter 1:8-9 *whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. *
Philipians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

future tense: Romans 5:9-10 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
1Corinthians 3:15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The church is Jesus? Boy, that must have been one big cross

.

Once again, I’m relying on the Bible. Why did Jesus say this to Paul(Saul) when Paul never met Jesus nor persecuted Him : Acts 9:4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
Acts 22:7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?

Saul was persecuting the Church. Acts 22:4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

It was Jesus who identified Himself with the Church by what he said to Saul. Probably another verse you’re not familiar with, I’m afraid.

 

[YinYangMom]

Once again, I’m relying on the Bible. Why did Jesus say this to Paul(Saul) when Paul never met Jesus nor persecuted Him : Acts 9:4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
Acts 22:7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?

Saul was persecuting the Church. Acts 22:4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

** It was Jesus who identified Himself with the Church by what he said to Saul.** Probably another verse you’re not familiar with, I’m afraid.

Nice job!

 

[ThereseMarie]

.
A quick explanation is: salvation is a gift accepted through faith in Jesus Christ. It also requires sorrow for your sins, obedience to faith, and conversion.

Sure, I’ll be happy to go down that road. Why would the Church have monks and nuns copy the Bible, by hand, for 1000+ years if it didn’t want people to have the Bible? Why didn’t the Church burn up all copies of Scripture or let them dry up and blow away? Why have there always been Scripture readings included in the Mass? Where did you learn Church history, from The Trail of Blood? You might want to question this version of Church history since it has been debunked and since it makes no sense. The Church wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of preserving the Bible if its goal was to keep it away from people. There would be no Bible if it weren’t for the Church. Even Martin Luther admitted this.

Oh, sorry. You’re probably not familiar with them because they don’t support your theology. We Catholics, though, read all the Bible.

No, the Bible speaks of salvation in the past, present, and future tenses. It is a process according to the Bible.
past tense: Ephesians 2:5 (NKJV) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)
**present tense **(ongoing): 1 Peter 1:8-9 *whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. *
Philipians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

future tense: Romans 5:9-10 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
1Corinthians 3:15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

.

Once again, I’m relying on the Bible. Why did Jesus say this to Paul(Saul) when Paul never met Jesus nor persecuted Him : Acts 9:4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
Acts 22:7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?

Saul was persecuting the Church. Acts 22:4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

It was Jesus who identified Himself with the Church by what he said to Saul. Probably another verse you’re not familiar with, I’m afraid.

Awesome!!!:clapping:

 

[po18guy]

Going through the evangelism forum, I’m struck by the difference between the Roman Catholic idea of evangelism and the Christian teaching of evangelism.

In nearly every thread, the topic is how to recruit people to Roman Catholicism, but nothing about the Gospel, which is to be the centerpiece of evangelism.

I’ve got a challenge for you.

Let’s say that I’m an unsaved sinner and you’re going to share the Gospel with me. How would you do it?

Bro, if you want to be taken seriously, you don’t introduce yourself with an insult to the Church that Christ founded (Matthew 16:18). Better to ask youself if YOU are really Christian, or just claim to be, since you do not eat His Body or drink His Blood as Christ commanded (John 6:53).

Anyway, you recruit by using the Gospel. Period. Stick around. We’ll teach you faith, scripture, and manners.

 

[pyropam]

Brosam,

I’m not sure why you came to this forum. I do know that you are judging people that you don’t know. I believe that this is not acceptable in the scripture. “Judge not lest ye be judged”.

I do know this… I converted to the Catholic faith at Easter 2007. I have a real presence of God in my life now! I know that all humans are sinners. Whether that sin be “murder and stuff” or simply a hate or disgust in one’s heart for those of another Christian path. Yes you are a sinner, just as I am. I also know that I witness to people on a daily basis. Everyone that I meet…everyone that I speak with. Six people joined the Catholic church because of my witnessing to them.

They saw that I was changed, they listened to what I had to say. I was able to finally explain all the unexplained questions I had ever had about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, etc…

Yes the Church is Jesus!!! The Church is the body… Why do you not know this? And Yes, it really is one heavy cross.

I am at peace in my relationship with the Lord! I attend RCIA classes so that I may more fully understand the Catholic faith. I currently have three more people attending classes.

My 93 year old grandmother (who thought the Catholic church was of the devil) was able to turn her heart to a better understanding of this faith just by listening. Why can’t you.

The first Christian Chruch was the Catholic Church. They have not changed their teaching… The other Christian churches broke away one-by-one as they found they could not follow the truth.

Where did you get this bible you teach from??? The Catholic Church.

Do you think that Jesus owned a bible? NO
Do you think that the Apostles owned a bible? NO
Do you think that the earliest churches owned bibles? NO

The Catholic church collected the writings and formed a book with them. The church that presented them is the only one that truly understands them.

We do not take scripture out of context. I pray for you to come to a better understanding of our Faith.

Why all the worry about being “saved”. Jesus died for all of us… it is up to us whether or not we want to accept the salvation he has offered. We must follow his path. We will stumble for we are only human. We must then go to confession, repent, ask for forgiveness, and receive him in communion.

In order to be Catholic, one must accept that Jesus is God in human form. He came to this earth by the power of the Holy Spirit, was born to the Virgin Mary, and lived the life of a human person. He suffered and died for us so that we may be able to live forever.

WE ARE ALL SINNERS, WHO IN CHRIST ARE STRIVING TO SIN NO MORE. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO LIVE AS HE LIVED. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO WITNESS TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT THEY MAY KNOW HIM.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Going through the evangelism forum, I’m struck by the difference between the Roman Catholic idea of evangelism and the Christian teaching of evangelism.

Again, why do you continue to use the term “Roman?” and differentiate Catholic from Christian? Are you sayint Catholics are not Christians? What is your definition of a Christian?

In nearly every thread, the topic is how to recruit people to Roman Catholicism, but nothing about the Gospel, which is to be the centerpiece of evangelism.

Really?? I see a search and proof for Truth.

I’ve got a challenge for you.

Let’s say that I’m an unsaved sinner and you’re going to share the Gospel with me. How would you do it?

We are all unsaved sinners, but for the grace of God.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Brosam,

I’m not sure why you came to this forum. I do know that you are judging people that you don’t know. I believe that this is not acceptable in the scripture. “Judge not lest ye be judged”.

WE ARE ALL SINNERS, WHO IN CHRIST ARE STRIVING TO SIN NO MORE. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO LIVE AS HE LIVED. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO WITNESS TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT THEY MAY KNOW HIM.

Welcome Bro, and Amen to your testimony?

 

[po18guy]

Maybe, but I’m not arrogant or prideful and I’ve never presumed anything about anybody.

Unless they have the bad fortune to be Catholic. BroSam, I have read up on the bizarre history and claims of the Jack Chick organization. Some of the words, phrases and assumptions you use and make look mightly similar. PLEASE tell all of us that you are not basing your slander of the Catholic faith on that lunatic’s spewings! We pray for him, because he’s “all ate up” with hatred.

If I criticize someone, or something without proper knowledge, I am considered ignorant. Therefore, I try not to.

 

[po18guy]

Hey, everyone! THANK YOU Moderator!!! Brosam is gonzo. Between him, BrewMax and a few others, anyone noticed a sudden flurry of attacks? Where from?

Christ’s peace!

 

[cascherman]

I don’t believe you are actually on here to learn about Catholic evangelization as much as you are on here to tell us we don’t do it right.

As a Catholic you have to understand we believe that being saved and being a practicing member of the Church are synonymous. Or at least if you are a practicing Catholic you have the best chance of being saved.

What do you think you will hear if you go to mass? The Gospel and you will be a witness to the miracle that is the Eucharist (I cannot wait to take part, but unfortunately I am a observer at this point). So I agree, I would first tell the person that Christ left a visible Church for us that would lead us in truth (or the Gospel if you like), and then I would say, “Let’s go to mass, and see for yourself.”

So then all I have to do is join your church and I’ll be saved? If I join AAA does that make me a car?

Do you really consider this a worthy analogy? So what you are saying is if a person signs up for AAA, he, not his car, will be saved? Wow…

 

[ThereseMarie]

Brosam,

*I do know this… I converted to the Catholic faith at Easter 2007. I have a real presence of God in my life now! I know that all humans are sinners. Whether that sin be “murder and stuff” or simply a hate or disgust in one’s heart for those of another Christian path. Yes you are a sinner, just as I am. I also know that I witness to people on a daily basis. Everyone that I meet…everyone that I speak with. Six people joined the Catholic church because of my witnessing to them.

They saw that I was changed, they listened to what I had to say. I was able to finally explain all the unexplained questions I had ever had about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, etc…

Yes the Church is Jesus!!! The Church is the body… Why do you not know this? And Yes, it really is one heavy cross. *

My eyes became blurred with tears as I read your post. What a beautiful presence you are, and have in you. The original question, posed by Mr Brosam was how would you share the Gospel with others. I think that you describe a wonderful way we can do this, and perhaps, the most effective: By striving to make our lives perfect examples of Him.

 

[guanophore]

Bro, if you want to be taken seriously, you don’t introduce yourself with an insult to the Church that Christ founded (Matthew 16:18). Better to ask youself if YOU are really Christian, or just claim to be, since you do not eat His Body or drink His Blood as Christ commanded (John 6:53).

Anyway, you recruit by using the Gospel. Period. Stick around. We’ll teach you faith, scripture, and manners.

Too late! He aleady got himself banned. Maybe he will return in re-incarnated form?

 

[St_Gabriel]

Too bad he’s gone. He could have really gained so much knowledge of the Truth. Maybe he’ll continue to lurk.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Too bad he’s gone. He could have really gained so much knowledge of the Truth. Maybe he’ll continue to lurk.

I don’t think he would have gained knowledge. He never read a thing that was posted. He used quotes to promote his agenda. His responses to the quotes were irrelevant to the quotes. He made claims that he answered questions, but nowhere were the answers to be found, either that, or the response was not the answer. Then he kept asking us to back our claims, when they had been posted over and over again by many posters. He is the thin soil (maybe even rocky) onto which the seed fell. I think he may even have been possesed.

I am posting the below onto all the threads that I have tried to get these people to respond:

Where are Brian, Nella, Priscilla Ann, Emily_CA, and Brewmaster? They pop up here and there with attacks and inuendos against the “Roman” Church, and then leave, never to engage in discussion. Brosam got banned. They are all over the Forum making the same claims, but never return to discuss.

I commend Agnos Theist and Notself for engaing in discussion. I have learned at lot from them.

 

[Janet_S]

I don’t think he would have gained knowledge. He never read a thing that was posted. He used quotes to promote his agenda. His responses to the quotes were irrelevant to the quotes. He made claims that he answered questions, but nowhere were the answers to be found, either that, or the response was not the answer. Then he kept asking us to back our claims, when they had been posted over and over again by many posters. He is the thin soil (maybe even rocky) onto which the seed fell. I think he may even have been possesed.

I am posting the below onto all the threads that I have tried to get these people to respond:

Where are Brian, Nella, Priscilla Ann, Emily_CA, and Brewmaster? They pop up here and there with attacks and inuendos against the “Roman” Church, and then leave, never to engage in discussion. Brosam got banned. They are all over the Forum making the same claims, but never return to discuss.

I commend Agnos Theist and Notself for engaing in discussion. I have learned at lot from them.

Nella got banned too. Bye, Bye!

 

[po18guy]

Too bad he’s gone. He could have really gained so much knowledge of the Truth. Maybe he’ll continue to lurk.

He might just come back. He hasn’t “saved” all of us yet. I wonder if his pastor even baptizes…

 

[juliamajor]

He might just come back. He hasn’t “saved” all of us yet. I wonder if his pastor even baptizes…

If Brosam is “saved” then i don’t want any part of it. Bullying,badgering and making people fearful is not the way to get them into the kingdom of God. recently there was a survey( i wish i could remember where.) the problem a lot of young people have with religion (Christianity in particular) is hypocrisy. We SAY one thing and DO something else. There is Brosam’s flaw .You cannot separate what you say from what you do or who you are.He totally misunderstood St.Francis’ statement on preaching the gospel.Comparing it to starving children is foolish. One is dealing with fleshly needs (which are immediate and for the here and now)Evangelization is looking toward eternity. I hope the Good Lord will forgive his very evident hatred and bring him to fullness of truth. Change his heart of stone to one of flesh and grant him peace and joy!

 

[po18guy]

If Brosam is “saved” then i don’t want any part of it. I hope the Good Lord will forgive his very evident hatred and bring him to fullness of truth. Change his heart of stone to one of flesh and grant him peace and joy!

So sad that the less tradition you have, and the less faith, the more knowledge you believe you have and the more proof you require. Since “bible” Christians always demand “proof”, do they really have any faith? Luke 18:7-9 “And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
Brosam’s thoughts have been tainted by someone like Jack Chick who claims to love God, but actually only hates Catholicism. We are called to pray for those who persecute us.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Brosam,

I’m not sure why you came to this forum. I do know that you are judging people that you don’t know. I believe that this is not acceptable in the scripture. “Judge not lest ye be judged”.

I do know this… I converted to the Catholic faith at Easter 2007. I have a real presence of God in my life now! I know that all humans are sinners. Whether that sin be “murder and stuff” or simply a hate or disgust in one’s heart for those of another Christian path. Yes you are a sinner, just as I am. I also know that I witness to people on a daily basis. Everyone that I meet…everyone that I speak with. Six people joined the Catholic church because of my witnessing to them.

They saw that I was changed, they listened to what I had to say. I was able to finally explain all the unexplained questions I had ever had about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, etc…

Yes the Church is Jesus!!! The Church is the body… Why do you not know this? And Yes, it really is one heavy cross.

I am at peace in my relationship with the Lord! I attend RCIA classes so that I may more fully understand the Catholic faith. I currently have three more people attending classes.

My 93 year old grandmother (who thought the Catholic church was of the devil) was able to turn her heart to a better understanding of this faith just by listening. Why can’t you.

The first Christian Chruch was the Catholic Church. They have not changed their teaching… The other Christian churches broke away one-by-one as they found they could not follow the truth.

Where did you get this bible you teach from??? The Catholic Church.

Do you think that Jesus owned a bible? NO
Do you think that the Apostles owned a bible? NO
Do you think that the earliest churches owned bibles? NO

The Catholic church collected the writings and formed a book with them. The church that presented them is the only one that truly understands them.

We do not take scripture out of context. I pray for you to come to a better understanding of our Faith.

Why all the worry about being “saved”. Jesus died for all of us… it is up to us whether or not we want to accept the salvation he has offered. We must follow his path. We will stumble for we are only human. We must then go to confession, repent, ask for forgiveness, and receive him in communion.

In order to be Catholic, one must accept that Jesus is God in human form. He came to this earth by the power of the Holy Spirit, was born to the Virgin Mary, and lived the life of a human person. He suffered and died for us so that we may be able to live forever.

WE ARE ALL SINNERS, WHO IN CHRIST ARE STRIVING TO SIN NO MORE. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO LIVE AS HE LIVED. WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO WITNESS TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT THEY MAY KNOW HIM.

As someone else commented, this is a wonderful post. Especially “They saw that I was changed, they listened to what I had to say. I was able to finally explain all the unexplained questions I had ever had about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, etc…”
This is key, and perhaps also why the OP was posted, perhaps in their experience you are the exception rather than the rule. It is our words, and actions, whether we speak the truth boldly yet gently, without pride, knowing it is about Jesus, not us. If the OP met the men leaving Church last evening after an evening of recollection and benediction, his experience would probably be different than meeting those leaving Sunday Mass. Some are reverent, some if you listen to the words and tone of voice, may lead one to wonder if they were paying attention at Mass. As you said “They saw that I was changed, they listened to what I had to say. I was able to finally explain…”

God bless, and welcome to the faith,

Michael
Phil 4:4-9

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Going through the evangelism forum, I’m struck by the difference between the Roman Catholic idea of evangelism and the Christian teaching of evangelism.

In nearly every thread, the topic is how to recruit people to Roman Catholicism, but nothing about the Gospel, which is to be the centerpiece of evangelism.

I’ve got a challenge for you.

Let’s say that I’m an unsaved sinner and you’re going to share the Gospel with me. How would you do it?

First, I wouldn’t react to the apparent labeling of Roman Catholic evangelization as different from Christian evangelization.
(Mt 5:39 “But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.”)

Second, I would keep in mind St Paul’s words "2 Tim 2:24-26 “The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.”

Third, if by my words and actions over time they come to trust my witness, I would look for opportunities or prompting by the Holy Spirit to share the Gospel. Keeping in mind Paul’s words: "2 Tim 3:15-17 “and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
I would show the words of Jesus, and the witness of Paul and the Apostles in the New Testament, and how the Old Testament convenants prefigured the New Testament covenant.
I would give them a Bible and a copy of the Catechism, and pray that that Holy Spirit would open their heart, and pray that others would come into their life to witness and encourage them in the Gospel.
That said, if the love of Christ is not evident in my words and actions, the credibility of my witness will dim. And if I can’t explain the Gospel, and show in Catholic Scripture, the credibility of my witness will dim. After all, the Church teaches CCC # 133: "The Church “forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”

Michael
Phil 4:4-9