Excommunication looms for American Maryknoll active in 'Womanpriest' rites

[Scottgun]

The church is wrong about a lot of stuff and has said so. Clearly you know your church history. Can I bring up the Middle Ages and tithing, or is that sleazey too!?

There are so few good priests out there. Really a shame to cut this one down.
Peace OUT

Respectfully, you are confusing sinful behavior of churchmen with the Church binding the faithful to errors in the Deposit of Faith. The first is possible and yes, the Church has said so. The second is most emphatically not. And the male-only priesthood falls in the second category as affirmed in *Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. *You can trot out all the naughty behavior from the past you want, it does not dent authentic and authoritative teaching one bit. It would be like saying John said adultery was wrong. John committed adultery, therefore adultery is not wrong. If anyone out there sees this as absurd on the face of it, congratulations. No one will likely accuse you of huffing paint.

Of course Fr, Bourgeois is going to appeal to the erroneous view of conscience and the doctrine of “Sincerity makes right”–it’s from the standard dissenter playbook because it is literally all they’ve got. They have no leg to stand on and since relativism is worldly thinking *par excellence, *it is easy to see from where the stench doth emanate.

 

[turtle18]

I don’t agree with women priests at all. I don’t think he should have “ordained” them; clearly he was disobedient and the ordination holds no validity.

However, one has to wonder where the focus is in the Catholic Church? All the other issues tearing the Church apart and this is where they draw the line? Bishops & priests are allowed to give Communion to pro-choice politicians? They can’t take a stand on that but they can on this?

 

[venite_adoremus]

Nice letter by our soon-to-be-former Maryknoll friend. Where are his other 94 theses to nail to the church door? This particular line in the cafeteria is closed, as well it should be. Hope the last one out turns out the lights. Let the excommunications begin, and he should be removed from the priesthood as well.

Women are invited to be something extremely important in the Church. In the community of faith, women are priestesses, prophets and queens, made so by virtue of baptism. Without the capacity of women to pray, to serve, to be flexible, to multi-task and solve the problems of the human race, to keep the flax spinning and the meals cooking and the families encouraged, this ol’ world would fall flat on its face. Most men know who really keeps things running, and shout their praise for their women at the city gates. (see readings for this Sunday, 16 Nov 2008)

Who wants the hassles? the late night telephone sick calls? the endless rounds of confessions, counselings, cajolings? Any mother already is an expert at these things, and would gladly settle for a good night’s sleep! (Just kidding!)

If Jesus calls women to sacrificial ministry, the laity are encouraged to join in the Liturgy of the Hours, assisting at Daily Mass, praying the Rosary, meditating, leading Scripture studies, making offerings of time talent and treasure, and (not insignificantly) subordinating personal devotion to the cause of raising a family properly or engaging in the work place. Sisters and nuns are still in business in teaching and nursing and contemplative orders, and several religious orders offer tertiary vocation opportunities (Benedictine Oblates, Lay Dominicans, etc) for the married. There are ten million things to do as a lay person in any parish in the land.

But the Church does not call, nor should the Church call, women to the ministerial priesthood. Christ has His reasons, and I trust Him. So does the Holy Father. The Church has spoken, and that’s the end of it.

 

[Dale_M]

A Georgia priest facing excommunication for supporting the ordination of women said Friday he plans to visit the Vatican with a contingent of fellow priests and a bishop to appeal the decision.

Bourgeois’ excommunication likely would be automatic, requiring no further action from the Holy See, said the chief Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi. Excommunication is the most severe penalty under church law, cutting off a Catholic from receiving or administering sacraments. The ordained woman, Sevre-Duszynska, also faces excommunication…

msnbc.msn.com/id/27724089

 

[josethomas]

All Christians are sharing in the priesthood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. But a priest lives such priesthood to a fuller way. All Christians are also called to follow Jesus as Mary had stood by Jesus. What the apostles failed to do, Mary did. We want Marys and apostles, but we want marys to be marys and apostles to be apostles. The mission is different, but its worth is equal. Let us love Jesus by being obedient by trying to observe what He did in His life. We try to emulate Jesus by accepting suffering as something sanctifying. We should also follow Jesus in chosing the priests, and confine priesthood to male only. Actually Jesus knows better and the Church teaches that, Let us be obedient to Church teachings.

 

[Free_Radical]

WOW - I am shocked by all the people who say - “No means no”, “Church rules are church rules”. I hate to bring this up, but it is the best example I can come up with: thank goodness we didn’t accept what our church leaders were saying when the pedophilia was happening. Or maybe we did - that’s my point. If you look at the history of the church, they HAVE made mistakes and this is a very harsh punishment for a priest who has devoted his life to not only serving God, but fighting for Social Justice and Human Rights (36 years) of others - complete strangers.

++++++++++

Welcome, sheilajaner! I think it is courageous of Father Bourgeois to take a stand against injustice. He sounds like a priest with a lot of compassion.

 

[Brian777]

Welcome, sheilajaner! I think it is courageous of Father Bourgeois to take a stand against injustice. He sounds like a priest with a lot of compassion.

Yes he does sound like a holy man. But Luther was a holy man, who wanted to change some injustices, so was Calvin, so was Arius, and what do these men have in common? They went too far and meddled with Dogma, not just corruption or discipline. Hence they were excommunicated and declared heretics by Holy Mother Church, to whom Jesus gave all power of judgement in matters of Faith and Morals. This priest has unfortunately gone too far. Not only did he support women’s ordination, but he ordained with out any authority to do so as he is not a bishop. So, defending him is directly against the declaration of the Lateran Council, Canon 18 (Pope St. Martin I - 649 A.D.) … if Anyone does not reject and Anathematize Heretics he himself becomes Condemned. We must love him and pray for him that he sees the TRUTH and reconciles with Holy Mother Church before his death.

 

[Holly3278]

For those who refuse to recant of this sin, excommunication is the most proper punishment/discipline available. I only pray that this priest would recognize the error of his ways and come back in to full communion with the Catholic Church.

 

[rpp]

Count me as #4 - this has nothing to do with Eastern Catholics.

Can we get it moved?

I do not know how this got to the Eastern Catholicism forum. I intended to post it to the Catholic News forum. So either I messed up or it was moved by accident. Thankfully, it has been moved (back?). Sorry about that.

 

[Scottgun]

For those who refuse to recant of this sin, excommunication is the most proper punishment/discipline available. I only pray that this priest would recognize the error of his ways and come back in to full communion with the Catholic Church.

Not only excommunication, but he is seriously facing dismissal from the clerical state: canonlaw.info/2008/11/fr-bourgeois-might-be-facing-more-than.html

 

[cthulhubryan]

Wow. excommunicating a priest. Wow. Even as a protestant it seems that this priest has an easy way to support priesthood for women. Every night, pray to God that if it be His will for women to have the priesthood that He would let that be known to the Pope. Case (and cafeteria) closed.

 

[puppylove]

When I was growing up if you wanted to be a priest you could not be married…now all of a sudden if a man who was preacher from another religion converts to Catholism and is married with children can become a priest. Please show me how this is different. I have to admit I was on the fence about this issue until I read his letter to the Vatican and I didn’t even think about the married clergy conversion. What he is saying is makes lots of sense and you can’t deny that. He is saying that God is telling him to follow his heart!!! BTW, from what I understand from my cousin, the priest’s niece, he didn’t do the ordination, only said the homiily.

 

[puppylove]

Wow. excommunicating a priest. Wow. Even as a protestant it seems that this priest has an easy way to support priesthood for women. Every night, pray to God that if it be His will for women to have the priesthood that He would let that be known to the Pope. Case (and cafeteria) closed.

Unfortunately it don’t work like that dude!!!

 

[puppylove]

Welcome, sheilajaner! I think it is courageous of Father Bourgeois to take a stand against injustice. He sounds like a priest with a lot of compassion.

I second that!

 

[puppylove]

And another thing. Remember the days when women couldn’t even be on the alter. Now we have lectors, and altar servers who are female.

 

[Scottgun]

When I was growing up if you wanted to be a priest you could not be married…now all of a sudden if a man who was preacher from another religion converts to Catholism and is married with children can become a priest. Please show me how this is different

There have been married priests throughout the history of the Church. And here is the rub: the church has the authority to do such. It has no such authority to ordain woman as is stated in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and the follow-up dubium, which also states that this teaching belongs to the Deposit of Faith and is to be definitively held by all the faithful. It’s a galaxy of difference.

BTW, from what I understand from my cousin, the priest’s niece, he didn’t do the ordination, only said the homiily.

By doing the homily, he lended formal support to the women’s ordination, meaning he might as well have done the ordination.

And another thing. Remember the days when women couldn’t even be on the alter. Now we have lectors, and altar servers who are female.

And again, the Church has the authority to do this. Not so with woman’s ordination.

As far as “following your heart”, I refer you back to what Fr. Williams said of the erroneous view of conscience:

Many today appeal to conscience as the final arbiter of good and evil. By this view of conscience, good and evil do not exist outside of our moral judgment, but are created by it. What I sincerely judge to be good and right becomes good and right because of that judgment. Sincerity is all that matters. By this logic, it makes no sense to try to tell someone else what is good or right, even, for example, if you are the Church’s magisterium. In the end, conscience would not apply an objective moral law that stands above it, but would supplant the moral law. Conscience would trump everything.

Following your heart does not alter truth. Sincerely believing a round earth is really flat will not flatten it.

As far as being courageous, not at all. I can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a maverick steeped in worldly, relativistic thinking-- and to call that courageous is like congratulating Godzilla for speaking truth to power.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Unfortunately it don’t work like that dude!!!

Sure it does. You pray that way. If God doesn’t tell the pope to change then it wasn’t God’s will and you can safely forget about it.

 

[jenkiedad]

I saw a news blurb in my local newspaper that Fr. Bourgeois plans to “visit the Vatican with a contingent of fellow priests and a bishop to appeal the decision.”

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081114/ap_on_re_us/eu_vatican_women_priests

I would be curious to know who the “bishop” is, and what diocese he represents (and how strong has this bishop been in supporting other Church doctrine)

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Welcome, sheilajaner! I think it is courageous of Father Bourgeois to take a stand against injustice. He sounds like a priest with a lot of compassion.

What unjustice is he standing against? Disobedience? Truth? God’s laws?
What exactly is it?

If you have a problem with the way God is, you need to take it up with God.

Pope John Paul II said it very accurately when he said that the ordination of a woman COULD not occur. It is something only God can change…and He is perfect, therefore has made the perfect decision for the priesthood to be for MEN only. He is perfect, and cannot change.

This priest is only bringing much more scandal to the Church, whom he has vowed to obey and serve.
The Church is not a democracy. We have no votes. And I thank God that we do not…for He knows all things, and works them out for the best.

Women do not have a calling for the priesthood…for the calling must be from God. The Vatican is not fighting against God, therefore women are not recieving this calling. And even men who do not recieve a true calling for the priesthood should not become priests.
This woman did not go through proper training and evaluation needed to become a priest. None of it was correct. All of it was in disobedience to GOD, and therefore it is totally sinful. Which is the reason for the excommunication of all involved.

No one is forcing anyone to be Catholic. If one doesn’t want to abide by all that is Catholic, he should leave the Church before he causes scandal.

 

[LRThunder]

And another thing. Remember the days when women couldn’t even be on the alter. Now we have lectors, and altar servers who are female.

Technically, they’re readers. It might seem not much of a difference, but it is even though mostly the responsibilites are the same. Lectors, as of now, remain only open to men, although women can be readers.

As for female altar servers, that depends on the diocesan bishop, then the pastor, and then the celebrant. If a bishop bans female altar servers from his diocese (see the Diocese of Lincoln), then there can’t be any female altar servers there. If a bishop permits it, then it is up to the pastor of the parish. If the pastor permits it, then it is up to the celebrant of a particular Mass.

Don’t take that to mean we’re going to ordain women. The Church has no authority to ordain women, no matter the propaganda.