Fans of Taylor Marshall: what's going on?

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David55 said:
Yes, but please if you can’t be objective then I will not waste my time. I think you can get the point. The problem is today that most people can see beyond their own emotions to judge things objectively. This has been a problem in general for the last 50 years or so. Most people can’t see that truth is objective. You don’t have to like someone to give them justice.
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Both sides rely on emotion.
 
gam197 said:
The churches are still open at least in my area where people can go in and pray.
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I would certainly be very happy if we had that. Our doors are locked right now and that is not typical for our diocese.

There may be some light at the end of the tunnel as bishops are starting to realize the need people have for the sacraments:

“We, as priests, are called to bring the Word of Life to people, we are called to minister the life-giving sacraments. Televised Masses have been an attempt to bridge the gap during this time, but I am increasingly convinced that this is not enough,” Baldacchino said.


📿
 
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Unfortunately, the remarks by @Emeraldlady are way off base and misguided.

First of all, we don’t have to pay anything to receive the good news of salvation. It is offered freely through the evangelization efforts of the Catholic Church. We are called to support our church based on biblical grounds, as a result the clergy are given income to support them in their daily lives. However, if one wanted to they could attend mass every day and never be forced to give one cent to their local parish.

Those who operate as lay apostolates or as individuals on their own, are usually helping the evangelization effort by authoring books, giving talks, or writing articles in various magazines and online publications. Yet, we aren’t required to buy their products, donate to their causes or fund their organizations in any way.

If someone is so concerned as to the unbiblical accumulation of wealth, they should start by looking at some of our own clergy members. Many of those same organizations and individuals that @Emeraldlady just mentioned, have done extensive research and investigation into some of these clergy members and they have uncovered untold amounts of financial corruption.

So unless someone wants to dig into the financial books of some of theses traditional groups and prove that they are merely pocketing large amounts of wealth, with financial gain as their top goal, I’d think twice before they start slinging mud and making accusations that can’t be supported with facts.
 
Maximian said:
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gracepoole:
Yet last week Lifesite News revealed that Marshall had bankrolled the operation.
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That’s not a true picture of what happened. The way you put insinuates a deception which wasn’t there.

Lifesite did not reveal any such thing; they reported that it was revealed by the two men (Taylor Marshall and Baron Alexander Tschugguel) themselves in the course of the interview itself.

Prominent US Catholic helped plan, fund purging of Pachamama idol from church in Rome | News | LifeSite
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I am insinuating a deception. Actually I’m not insinuating – I’m stating there was a deception. I watched Marshall’s first interview with Tschugguel and he made a concerted effort not to divulge his own participation in the “purging” of the Pachamama idol. He even pretended to clarify how Tschugguel says his first name at the opening of the interview to suggest they didn’t know one another. There was nothing in the interview that suggested Marshall had actually paid for Tschugguel to travel to and from Rome for the express purpose of throwing the idol in the Tiber. If Marshall and Tschugguel subsequently owned it and LSN reported on it, fine. But that’s not the point: the point is that Marshall handled the whole thing disingenuously.
 
Crusader13 said:
Or is it just the traditionalists that you dislike who are unbiblical in their financial gain?
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For my part, the desire to receive financial gain for one’s work is just. The problem is that this desire can – and in my mind often does – pervert the work.
 
That’s understandable. I’m sure there are numerous examples of financial gain that one could point to in order to show how greed overshadowed the mission.

However, you can’t simply say that because someone turned a profit, that the acquisition of wealth is their motivating factor. At least show some evidence or data that would at least show cause for concern. Don’t just generalize in such a broad manner.
 
Crusader13 said:
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Emeraldlady:
Give me an example from Tradition of wealth generation from evangelising?
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Ok, you seem to be blurring the lines between evangelization, which the Church has done since its foundation and the accumulation of wealth as the goal for sharing the gospel.

Catholics here at Catholic Answers receive a pretty decent salary. So you’re insinuating that everyone from Jimmy Akin to Tim Staples lose any credibility in your eyes because they are getting paid to defend Catholicism.

Or is it just the traditionalists that you dislike who are unbiblical in their financial gain?
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Are you genuinely not aware of the the far right Catholic wealth machine? It’s a bit different to traditional mainstream Catholic media. Here’s some reading that can enlighten you.


And then there’s the America Needs Fatima/Tradition Family Property scammers also…

http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/index.php/2010/07/i-still-think-p/

 
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Crusader13 said:
That’s understandable. I’m sure there are numerous examples of financial gain that one could point to in order to show how greed overshadowed the mission.

However, you can’t simply say that because someone turned a profit, that the acquisition of wealth is their motivating factor. At least show some evidence or data that would at least show cause for concern. Don’t just generalize in such a broad manner.
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Look at the growth of Catholic commentators on individual and collective levels. For example:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

In this instance, the spike represents when Tim Gordon started appearing on Marshall’s podcast. Gordon has described what they did as “straight up commentary.” There was an explosion in Marshall’s reach and popularity once he started focusing squarely on commentary and devoted far less time to videos/podcasts covering, say, Church teachings. Gordon has also said that the Church’s scandals gave them plenty of fodder for their videos. They, in fact, came to benefit from the Church’s scandals. That may not be a popular view but from my vantage point it certainly seems to be true. And I don’t make this kind of claim lightly – I genuinely like the work of some of these folks.

Another example is Voris. A former employee of his wrote the following:
I was told to write an article on Cardinal Dolan and his Making All Things New pastoral initiative. In it, many dying parishes were being closed down to save the Archdiocese of New York money. I added several quotes from distraught and sad parishioners, as the angle was clearly to portray Cardinal Dolan as a bad person. However, I made a mistake in the writing of it: I added a quote from Dolan saying how sorry he was for having to close down the parishes, and that he felt for the parishioners who were losing their parish communities.

I was told by my editor that overall the article was good, but the quote was taken out. When I asked why, I was given a shocking answer: “It made him look good, and that’s not what we want.”
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I think we’d be naive not to recognize that clicks and views are how these commentators survive. The more salacious the content, the more clicks and views they receive. Even those who are the most noble are in this bind.

I think, though, the most dangerous aspect of Catholic commentators is that they have zero pastoral oversight. For some, who are so disillusioned with the Church’s hierarchy, this is a good thing. I am not one of those folks.

Financial incentives for providing more salacious content + no pastoral oversight = nothing good in the long run, I think.
 
The experience of that young man who interned at Church Militant is what drives me most fervently to write and speak against these wolves who’ve infiltrated our Church to destroy the faith of the young. So ironic that they present themselves as ‘saviours’ of the Church when they are poisoning it themselves.
 
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Only know the case through your threat, but 2 wrongs
  • turn away the responsability to spread the deadly virus by going to a mass despite the mandate sanitary rules into a conflict for or against the SPPX.
  • to turn his back to a family who is suffering for one of its member’s health because of an express disagreement when someone is CLEARLY at his wrong.
Shame on him.
 
Emeraldlady said:
Are you genuinely not aware of the the far right Catholic wealth machine? It’s a bit different to traditional mainstream Catholic media. Here’s some reading that can enlighten you.
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As I said earlier, don’t believe everything you read on the internet. I will say they included some quite interesting people involved in this “hostile takeover of the Church”. People like EWTN, the Knights of Columbus, Cardinal Raymond Burk, Fox news.

Interesting. Again, don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
gracepoole said:
I think we’d be naive not to recognize that clicks and views are how these commentators survive. The more salacious the content, the more clicks and views they receive.
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IMHO I think the rise of Youtube has contributed a lot to this.

I still say the best thing to do is study your catechism, if you listen to a youtube or podcast a good priest is best, or read a book by someone with the first name saint. If you listen to any of the Catholic commentators out there, like everything else on the internet, take it with a grain of salt and don’t believe everything you read. There are a lot of agendas out there and a lot of false news stories.
 
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…he has associated himself with right-wing Catholic efforts to discredit the pope using the largely debunked accusations of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the former papal ambassador to the United States.
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The case could be made that Viganò is merely a disgruntled employee striking back at the home office.
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This is the kind of rubbish that was in that article. So it’s difficult to give a fair level of respect to an article that is so obviously biased against, what he stated was the “right wing” of the Church. I don’t know what debunking he’s referring to, but I have yet to hear or read anything from “the Vatican” debunking anything from Abp Vigano.
gracepoole said:
I think we’d be naive not to recognize that clicks and views are how these commentators survive.
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There’s a difference in using a catchy or attention getting headline, even one that’s a bit overstated; as opposed to writing false stories and fabricating lies.

Covering stories about James Martin and his pro LGBTQ isn’t click bait. Nor are covering incidents about Cardinals tweeting “an unknown person” and wishing them “nighty night baby” tweets. They didn’t fabricate the abuse stories about McCarrick nor did they make up lies about clergy who pretended to knowing nothing about the corruption. They didn’t downplay the scandals by saying it wasn’t a “massive massive crisis”.

You may see it as merely a money making enterprise, but unfortunately, many other entities aren’t covering or even talking about this stuff. Can’t recall the last time I heard Catholic Answers Radio, host a call in show dedicated to covering James Grein and his stories.

Nor any other Catholic personality extending a friendly invitation to an SSPX priest to answer questions and give info about what they truly believe and stand for.
 
There is so much details about Taylor Marshall in this thread it’s bordering on creepy

I watch him regularly and didn’t know any of this

Can’t even fathom how many hours of research went into all this
 
Crusader13 said:
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gracepoole:
I think we’d be naive not to recognize that clicks and views are how these commentators survive.
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There’s a difference in using a catchy or attention getting headline, even one that’s a bit overstated; as opposed to writing false stories and fabricating lies.

Covering stories about James Martin and his pro LGBTQ isn’t click bait. Nor are covering incidents about Cardinals tweeting “an unknown person” and wishing them “nighty night baby” tweets. They didn’t fabricate the abuse stories about McCarrick nor did they make up lies about clergy who pretended to knowing nothing about the corruption. They didn’t downplay the scandals by saying it wasn’t a “massive massive crisis”.

You may see it as merely a money making enterprise, but unfortunately, many other entities aren’t covering or even talking about this stuff. Can’t recall the last time I heard Catholic Answers Radio, host a call in show dedicated to covering James Grein and his stories.
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I’m going to go against the grain for many here but I don’t think endless commentary on these stories actually strengthens anyone’s faith. I can’t identify one way in which my faith is stronger for pondering the many proposed heresies of Fr. Martin or the lasciviousness of a cardinal. Every word uttered by members of the hierarchy is endlessly scrutinized and salivated over. And the overwhelming majority of the laity have no ability to alter anything outside of their own parishes, if even there. What spiritual benefit is gained by absorbing all of this?
Crusader13 said:
Nor any other Catholic personality extending a friendly invitation to an SSPX priest to answer questions and give info about what they truly believe and stand for.
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The Remnant regularly provides a positive take on the SSPX. But really, what percentage of the faithful even know what the SSPX is? And why should they know?
 
Aquinas11 said:
There is so much details about Taylor Marshall in this thread it’s bordering on creepy

I watch him regularly and didn’t know any of this

Can’t even fathom how many hours of research went into all this
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I can’t speculate on how long it would take you to read 5 tweets, but for me it was considerably less than hours.
 
Crusader13 said:
This is the kind of rubbish that was in that article. So it’s difficult to give a fair level of respect to an article that is so obviously biased against, what he stated was the “right wing” of the Church. I don’t know what debunking he’s referring to, but I have yet to hear or read anything from “the Vatican” debunking anything from Abp Vigano.
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That debunking was all over the mainstream news at the time. I’m not surprised that far right media didn’t carry it though. Cdl Ouellet the Vatican Head of the Congregation for Bishops roundly slapped it down.

 
I so miss Brother JR. May God bless him and the men served by he and his brothers.
Amen.
 
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