Fans of Taylor Marshall: what's going on?

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gracepoole said:
David Gordon (Tim’s brother, half of “Rules for Retrogrades”) criticized Marshall’s choice and described the SSPX as schismatic. A disagreement then started that involved Marshall and David, Tim, and Tim’s wife, and it led to Marshall blocking all of the Gordons and many, many others who disagreed with him.
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I’m not positive but it seems like the start of the criticism on twitter last night came from David Gordon retweeting or agreeing with a tweet from Michael Voris, that criticized the SSPX and Mr. Marshall attending an SSPX Mass.

According to Marshall the only way he knew to stop the criticisms fom both the Gordon’s and the multitude of other voices that frequently pop up at Twitter, was to block them. He also said he had reached out to Timothy Gordon. Hopefully the will be able to reconcile. Timothy Gordon had some very good insights and did a very good job on their videos. I like his videos, Rules for Retrogrades.
gracepoole said:
while I won’t attend one of their Masses myself, I don’t have an opinion on those who do.
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The one thing that I noticed was that Mr. Marshall never said much about the Mass except that it was SSPX. We don’t know how it was handled. It could have been a parking lot Mass, which many non SSPX also have had.
gracepoole said:
Should Marshall still be a trusted source?
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I think it is important to remember as Catholics, we follow Jesus and the Church. Taylor Marshall is one man, one voice. There are many, many traditional Catholics, very good Catholics, who also have videos, homilies and podcasts to listen to. IMHO it is okay to listen to him or anyone else as long as you stay obedient to the Church and put the learning of Church teaching first. I do believe he is still a trusted source as long as you do not put him on a pedestal.
gracepoole said:
Is there a path forward to unify traditional Catholics or are the differences that exist between various factions too great?
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Absolutely. There is already unity. In the Church itself there are many different types of spirituality but all are still part of the Church. We are one because we are Catholic.
 
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Is it possible that what is reasonable in metro NY is not reasonable in, say, Montana? I mention this as a way of attempting to reconcile the positions seemingly advanced by ThomasMT and DeniseNY.
 
ThomasMT said:
The “common good,” mhmm… and so, history repeats again and again. How easily a life of cushy, first world privilege allows us to forget. Take care, Denise.
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That doesn’t even make any sense in the context of this discussion, but whatever. You take care as well. I’m going to also do my best to make sure the people around me are are also well.
 
Not coincidentally, I just made popcorn. I can tell y’all what I think, but since this is a place where I literally cannot agree with everyone, I by definition have to agree to disagree with at least half of you
 
Tis_Bearself said:
The SSPX manages to get away with what they do because they have a relatively small attendance in the USA. If we all followed Taylor’s lead and went there for Easter Holy Communion, it would quickly either be shut down by the authorities, or people would be getting COVID at the services.
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I do not believe they were “getting away” with anything. Most SSPX chapels have also canceled Sunday Mass. We do not know much about this particular Mass. As I said in another post, it could have been a parking lot Mass or they could have followed the rules of their governor by just having few in attendance, social distancing and then having more Masses. In one of his other videos, he stated he had gone to Mass on a Sunday and there were only 10 people there and they all kept their social distancing. That would be following the guidelines.

My mother in law went to a protestant parking lot service. They were not trying to get away with anything either. They followed all the guidelines of their state and yet also received communion.
Tis_Bearself said:
or people would be getting COVID at the services.
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Interesting that people are still coming down with COVID19, yet most Masses are canceled. It must be from spending and hour or more at the grocery store. I recently saw a request by a local Walmart asking people to stop coming in to just browse around.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
I’m not positive but it seems like the start of the criticism on twitter last night came from David Gordon retweeting or agreeing with a tweet from Michael Voris, that criticized the SSPX and Mr. Marshall attending an SSPX Mass.
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It started on Easter Sunday with David responding on his own to Marshall. And then it escalated. Quickly.
MagdalenaRita said:
According to Marshall the only way he knew to stop the criticisms fom both the Gordon’s and the multitude of other voices that frequently pop up at Twitter, was to block them. He also said he had reached out to Timothy Gordon. Hopefully the will be able to reconcile. Timothy Gordon had some very good insights and did a very good job on their videos.
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Tim has explained that he did not speak with Marshall. He then blocked Tim, Tim’s wife, and Stephanie. I don’t hold out much hope for reconciliation, at least not any time soon, given this kind of final move. Tim maintains that Marshall did not block the Gordons with a positive motive in mind and that he never made a real effort to speak with Tim. Who knows what to think at this point… For my part, the Gordons seem to have a lot less to lose in all of this. But that’s just my assessment.
MagdalenaRita said:
The one thing that I noticed was that Mr. Marshall never said much about the Mass except that it was SSPX. We don’t know how it was handled. It could have been a parking lot Mass, which many non SSPX also have had.
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Sure. David’s point wasn’t about physical safety – it was about spiritual safety. I disagree with his thinking on the SSPX. I also wouldn’t have suggested to Marshall that he post publicly about Easter Mass, since for many who are experiencing great spiritual pain this season it seemed like bragging, whether or not that was his motivation.
MagdalenaRita said:
I think it is important to remember as Catholics, we follow Jesus and the Church. Taylor Marshall is one man, one voice. There are many, many traditional Catholics, very good Catholics, who also have videos, homilies and podcasts to listen to. IMHO it is okay to listen to him or anyone else as long as you stay obedient to the Church and put the learning of Church teaching first. I do believe he is still a trusted source as long as you do not put him on a pedestal.
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I think you and I have agreed previously that Marshall is best when he focuses on Church teachings. I hope he’ll continue to make those types of videos.
MagdalenaRita said:
Absolutely. There is already unity. In the Church itself there are many different types of spirituality but all are still part of the Church. We are one because we are Catholic.
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Yes! Just thinking that there seem to be so many disagreements among traditional Catholics and I find it sad.
 
Fauken said:
I’m inclined to blame the SSPX more than I do Taylor Marshall, as they’re the ones running their chapel and are supposed to comply with the local bishop
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The SSPX is not under the authority of the Diocesan Bishops. They are more like a Personal Prelature (or will be eventually). They have their own Ordinary and their own Bishops, so even when they are finally 100% approved by the Pope, they will have their own jurisdiction no doubt and will be only personally answerable to the Holy Father Himself.

As Bishop Fellay said after speaking to the Pope: “Rome is offering us a new structure. At its head will be a bishop, chosen by the Pope from a list of three Society members, named by the Society. He will have authority over priests, over any religious wanting to join the new structure and over Catholics belonging to the new structure. These will have an absolute right to receive from Society priests all the sacraments, including marriage. This bishop will be able to set up schools and seminaries, to ordain, to establish new religious Congregations. The structure will be like a super-diocese, independent of all local bishops. In other words, for you faithful, there will be no change from what you are already enjoying with the Society. The only difference will be that you will be officially recognized as Catholics.”

I am not saying that the Society is either in the right or the wrong generally, just pointing out that they are not under the Bishops, that their affair is between them and the Pope directly. So even after they get this status, if churches close down again, they will not have to shut their chapels also.
 
ThomasMT said:
an SSPX chapel is outside of the Bishop’s jurisdiction.
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No it isn’t. The Mass was said without the permission of and in deliberate defiance of the local ordinary. The SSPX had no authorization to hold a Mass in the first place, and they disobeyed the local ordinary by refusing to submit to his lawful jurisdiction.
 
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ThomasMT said:
What are you talking about? If an SSPX chapel is outside of the Bishop’s jurisdiction, there is no disobeying. And as far as I can tell, there have been no mandates that diocesan members specifically refrain from services outside of ordinary parishes. If a priest of a diocesan parish held a public Mass in spite of such orders, that would be different.
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I suppose it’s a bit like if Eastern Rite Catholic Churches have mass
 
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Paul_Edwards said:
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Paul_Edwards:
They are more like a Personal Prelature (or will be eventually).
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No, they are not. And they never will be.
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The Vatican disagrees.

https://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/sspx-bishop-fellay-personal-prelature-offer-under-consideration
 
I’m not sure that that’s how it works. I know that the SSPX chapel in my area is not a part of the local diocese, so…
In any case, just substitute SSPX with some obscure non-denominational church. That should ease the hate )
 
ThomasMT said:
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Jbrady:
How is deliberately defying and disobeying your ordinary in any way “devout”? Sounds like selfish pigheadedness to me. Not very Catholic at all.
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What are you talking about? If an SSPX chapel is outside of the Bishop’s jurisdiction, there is no disobeying. And as far as I can tell, there have been no mandates that diocesan members specifically refrain from services outside of ordinary parishes. If a priest of a diocesan parish held a public Mass in spite of such orders, that would be different.
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Like this?

www.lifesitenews.com

SSPX offers 'drive-in' Mass, Diocese of Arlington criticizes them as 'schismatic' - LifeSite

The SSPX meticulously followed public health mandates and 'social distancing' recommendations.
www.lifesitenews.com www.lifesitenews.com
 
ThomasMT said:
I’m not sure that that’s how it works. I know that the SSPX chapel in my area is not a part of the local diocese, so…
In any case, just substitute SSPX with some obscure non-denominational church. That should ease the hate )
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I don’t believe there’s any “hate” here. But plenty of confusion remains on all sides.
 
ThomasMT said:
the SSPX chapel in my area is not a part of the local diocese, so…
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Because they refuse to submit to the lawful authority of the local ordinary, which they are required to do.
ThomasMT said:
In any case, just substitute SSPX with some obscure non-denominational church.
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Obscure non-denominational churches do not deceptively claim to be Catholic in full communion with the Pope in Rome.
 
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