Father James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period

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christofirst said:
If that is what you truly believe, I sincerely pray you experience the peace of Christ. You may think you know the future based on whatever prophesy, locution or biblical interpretation you accept, but I trust in the goodness of God, and because of that love and goodness, I have great hope for the world and humankind.
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I encourage you to spend more time with scripture. For example:
Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?”
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.
Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places:
Mat 24:8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
Mat 24:10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
Mat 24:12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.
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christofirst said:
I have great hope for the world and humankind.
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After reading the Scriptures check out the approved apparition of Our Lady of Akita:

"As I told you, if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never seen before."

The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and priests."

"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres…churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.

"The demon will be especially implacable against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them"

There is more to this and it is interesting that her sadness is because of the loss of so many souls, not what is happening in the world. In other words, detach from the things of this world.
 
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I’m not surprised that those two found in each other a kindred spirit.
 
Glad they did. Watched it. It was a good interview. Interesting to hear his side of the story, what he intended and despite what the media is saying, what he didn’t intend, how he didn’t know about the bishops letter till after it went out and how he is being obedient to his bishop. I have watched his interviews before. He is really a very humble priest.

Pray for our priests.
 
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I’m not.

Agreed.

Constructively it’s Christian nationalist complacency that got us here. If people were traditional, honorable people they’ve not have contorted religion to their benefit.

I’m glad you have standards but people can’t share them if you won’t.
 
You’re obviously not alone in feeling that frustration and anger, Gov, so that should give you some small comfort. Just look through the posts here in this thread and elsewhere on CAF. I always feel like I’m in the minority here with my Pollyanna, overly optimistic worldview and my happy-clappy, left-over-from-the-60s way of living my Catholic faith 😁. I think you’re in good company here, and I hope some of the good people who think I’m wrong are praying for me, too.
 
You think the same of mine.

In that case meaning is ascribed. You want to be the best florist then you do you.

I was Catholic, I spent 10 years a nihilist. I know how it feels. It’s depressing then suddenly very freeing. I was happy till I read the short story The Egg. It made me realize that the divine is possible again.

Granted I walk with Freyja but I found faith again.

So laugh and move on.

Yeah… that’s not the world I want.
 
Okay, I’m giving you a like for that post. You have a most unique ability of filling a single post with things I like or that elicit empathy, such as the difficult situations in your life and you steadfastly carrying on for your family. But then you have to slip in that communist, anarchist stuff too 😁. God bless you, Gov.

The smoke from the fires is awful here too 🙁. Worst air quality I’ve seen in a long time (which doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the end times 😠)
 
Congrats 💜 This is awesome.

Thanks for putting succinctly what my husband and I have lamented all day. Financial issues are nearly choking me with anxiety. The air has literally choked me and I’ve had migraines for weeks from the nearby forest fire (Cameron Peak). The sky has been glowing orange in an eerie, apocalyptic manner and I have this sense of foreboding. My teens are struggling with near complete isolation and bc anxiety. Thank God my husband retired one year ago from law enforcement or I’d be losing it even more. I feel like a personal failure and that nothing I do matters, I miss my dad so much, and life just…carries on. My name will be erased in a hundred years, my beloved dad’s in less time, and I wonder what’s the point? I know the ‘right’ answers–eternal life, the Word of God, the souls of men–and I do believe in them. But it’s really hard not to despair.

We might all disagree on the best way to stop abortion and other evils, but I sense we are kindred spirits as we grieve for the state of our country and world.

Lord, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Again, I’m truly happy for your coming edition to your family, @(name removed by moderator).
 
I sometimes wonder if the different apparitions and visions, which can vary significantly in the tone and content of their message, are divinely provided to appeal to different types of people. You are drawn to the message of Akita, with it’s dire warnings of chastisements. I am especially drawn to the revelations granted to Blessed Julian of Norwich, wherein God has no wrath, only compassion and mercy. No terrible punishments, just All shall be well. Her times were similar to ours: pandemics, religious and political strife, yet the message she received was one of hope. I receive that message with joy and gratitude, and I try to live a life worthy of the generous graciousness of God. You, I’m sure, are also moved to better follow Our Lord by the ominous message of Akita, which must in some way appeal to your personality more than it does to me. And since we are not bound by these approved apparitions and revelations, other Catholics might not be drawn to any of them, no matter how much we might wish they were.
 
Since we’re discussing this in a political thread, I’ll tell you why I personally find appeals to apocalyptic passages of Scripture and private revelation when it comes to influencing the vote so distasteful. Any one of us can twist these messages to manipulate others. For example:

What if the Covid-19 pandemic was sent by God as a chastisement to show divine displeasure with our current president?

What if the demon of civil unrest has been unleashed because of God’s disapproval of the great mistake we made in electing our current president?

After all, these awful things are happening during his term in office, not his opponent’s.

Perhaps this is our final warning. Elect a new president or face the consequences.

Do you see what I’m getting at?
 
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christofirst said:
Since we’re discussing this in a political thread, I’ll tell you why I personally find appeals to apocalyptic passages of Scripture and private revelation when it comes to influencing the vote so distasteful. Any one of us can twist these messages to manipulate others.

What if the Covid-19 pandemic was sent by God as a chastisement to show divine displeasure with our current president?

What if the demon of civil unrest has been unleashed because of God’s disapproval in the great mistake we made in electing our current president?

Perhaps this is our final warning. Elect a new president or face the consequences.

Do you see what I’m getting at?
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This if course doesn’t prove it hasn’t happened, but I’ve never seen someone making these appeals say “This changed my mind.” No, they always “confirm” that person’s beliefs that they already held.
 
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christofirst said:
What if the Covid-19 pandemic was sent by God as a chastisement to show divine displeasure with our current president?

What if the demon of civil unrest has been unleashed because of God’s disapproval in the great mistake we made in electing our current president?

Perhaps this is our final warning. Elect a new president or face the consequences.

Do you see what I’m getting at?
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Dear friend, what you are getting at is far, far distant from the divinely predicted reality that is attested to in His Holy Word, Scripture. Again, I repeat, and strengthen my word to you: devote yourself anew to His divine revelation!!! Listen to Him!

I sadly know very well the absurd excuses for “Bible Study” that some Catholics have been subjected to, in these dark times today. All sorts of mutilations of Scripture to make them ultimately “all about ME”, and erase the reality of God’s Holy Self-revelation, for our salvation.

Many, many do not know how to listen to Him, so as to hear Him, so as to believe in Him, so as to live in Him and with Him, forever. But to any and all who earnestly try - who seek HIM the only true God who IS - He will answer, and will teach and we will begin to learn of Him. Then, maybe, He will have an army of witness who by His grace will be able to stand in the end times of great tribulation.
 
The thing I don’t understand about the “we need to change hearts and minds, not change the law to stop abortions” thing is that there’s very good evidence that the way to “change hearts and minds” IS to change the law.

Legal and widespread abortion in the U.S. didn’t happen because pro-abortionists “won hearts and minds.” It happened because 7 unelected lawyers made a unilateral decision that it must be so, despite what the people want. The people had no say whatsoever. There was no vote. Nationwide gay marriage was the same thing. And when something is legal, the stigma of it decreases, people become more accepting of it. Both abortion and gay marriage became more popular after the court unilaterally legalized it.

The way to “change hearts and minds” is to create a society where the natural law is respected and adhered to. That starts with making abortion illegal.

I also really don’t understand this from a moral standpoint. Abortion is a genocide of the unborn. I really hope that people wouldn’t be saying the same thing about Hitler if he were here today “We can’t make killing jews illegal, we need to win hearts and minds.” That would be crazy. If you believe what the church teaches, that abortion is the murder of an unborn innocent human, then there is no great moral difference between the two genocides.

I don’t know if “you cannot be a catholic and a Democrat.” But for me, my conscience would prevent me from ever voting for anyone who resembles current Democrats, given that they’re uniform in their support for abortion. Even a pro-“choice” Republican like Susan Collins will do more for the pro-life cause than a “pro-life” Democrat like Bob Casey. This is just too ironclad of an issue for Democrats nowadays. They cannot break with the party line. I do not claim to be the sole source of knowledge on this issue, and there are many better people than me. But to me, it seems like people try to handwave away the issue of abortion because it’s convenient. If you believe what your church teaches, then you believe there has been a genocide that has killed 61 million since legalized abortion. If this were an ongoing genocide of 61 million black people or 61 million jews, or 61 million hispanics, would catholics here really be saying “it’s okay to prioritize other issues over this”, or “we should try to convince people, not make it illegal?” That’s my view. But it is true that the church does not teach that you cannot be a Democrat.
 
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Except for the closing sentence, your post is excellent - accurate, true, articulate - wonderful. I wish yours had been the first post on the thread!

My only criticism: this -
HopingforGodtohelp said:
But it is true that the church does not teach that you cannot be a Democrat.
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It is also true that the Church does not teach that one “cannot be” a sinner. Sinners are a reality in Church, and we remain Catholic. Confession and renewal in Christ remain a possibility for us. Certainly one “can be” a democrat, but one can stand on a platform straight out of hell only so long before their feet catch on fire and their conscience has become so thin that anything can walk straight through. And the time is coming when horror itself will walk through, and none will notice when that happened. “How did it come to this?” One little uncorrected step at a time.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
Jesus of Nazareth has no interest in politics.
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Do you really think or believe this? if you were right, then every Christian would be departing from Him by “having interest” (better word, concern) for or in “politics” and the governing of peoples.

And we would all be governed by atheists? And that would be good?
 
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fide said:
And we would all be governed by atheists? And that would be good?
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Being governed solely by atheists or theists is equally wrong.
Governing requires acceptance of all people, believers as well as non-believers to have a an equal and peaceful society. You cannot force a belief.
 
fide said:
The bishops who tell people they can vote for Biden and be a good Catholic are not exercising prudence. The bishops who tell people the opposite, are exercising prudence. Laity who go bishop-shopping for guidance are not accepting the moral responsibility for their own moral decisions.
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I’ve never bishop shopped, but your post calls my attention to the reality that people very much do. Would you say it is most prudent then to listen to your own specific bishop and then in the US the USCCB? When should we listen to or look for other bishop’s (name removed by moderator)ut? When they speak to something specific in their region?

This is not a trap, just a curiosity. “Bishop shopping” to validate what we already think is plainly problematic. It causes me to wonder what the right approach to bishops that aren’t our own would be.
 
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