Father James Altman: You cannot be Catholic & a Democrat. Period

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DisorientingSneeze said:
Would you say it is most prudent then to listen to your own specific bishop and then in the US the USCCB? When should we listen to or look for other bishop’s (name removed by moderator)ut? When they speak to something specific in their region?
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This is a very good and important matter! The “bottom line” for me is first to compare what individual bishops and/or Committees of Bishops in the USCCB may teach on some matter, and discern whether this is a prudential judgment on a matter related to the Faith but not directly touching matters of the Faith, or a matter directly “of the Faith”. “Voting Guides” fall under prudential judgments most of the time, and prudential judgments demand prudence. Not all bishops have received the same measure of supernatural prudence - some may operate largely or entirely on natural prudence, which may be interesting and deserve a “thank you for your thoughts,” but certainly (in my judgment) not worthy of the obedience of faith. A good maxim might be, “Remember [former Cardinal] McCarrick”! Not all bishops are prudent, not in natural prudence, not in supernatural prudence.
  1. This speaks of the universal character of individual bishops:
(Lumen Gentium 23)
The individual bishops, who are placed in charge of particular churches, exercise their pastoral government over the portion of the People of God committed to their care, and not over other churches nor over the universal Church. [continue to the end of the paragraph]
  1. This addresses the authority of Conferences of Bishops;
POST-SYNODAL APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION: PASTORES GREGIS
Episcopal Conferences
63……In any event, since Episcopal Conferences are permanent bodies which meet periodically, they will be effective if their role is considered auxiliary vis-à-vis the role which the individual Bishops carry out … [continue with this and onto the next paragraph]
 
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Here’s how I see the situation. The KofC is not the same service organization my grandfather joined many years ago. They are now involved in promoting conservative politics and causes. That’s fine if they want to enter politics, but when that choice is made, they should expect pushback from those who disagree with them. My personal feeling, and I know you won’t like it, is this: they shouldn’t get political, as they have under Carl Anderson’s leadership, and then wrap themselves in the cloak of the Church saying, “We’re being persecuted!” when someone challenges them in court.
 
This is the way I see it, the Vatican clearly tells us, if we vote for pro-abortion politicians, it is of utmost seriousness.

It’s been posted, I will post it again:

Abortion and Excommunication - Catholic Ethics.
Abortion and Excommunication

If any Catholic politician favors legalized abortion, despite a claim of personal opposition, such a politician commits a mortal sin by promoting abortion and by voting in favor of abortion.

The same is true for any Catholic who casts any vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion.
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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

In a Catholic forum, I find it incredulous that one would be talked down for stating Catholic teaching, nothing less, nothing more. Vote how one wishes but I will express my understanding.
 
Jeanne_S said:
A JB presidency would be ruinous for this great Nation. DT is the president we need to get back on track.
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This statement is ridiculous. We went ‘off track’ under Trump. Either way, you’re putting a lot of faith (Trump) or fear (Biden) on the shoulders of one, albeit important, part of the picture.
 
Not ridiculous at all. Trump has proven he is an effective and capable leader,he has the best interests of our Nation at his forefront.He has also done amazingly well internationally,in the middle east brokering peaceful agreements.Rhus his two NP nominations.As opposed tomOnama who did nothing yet received a nomination even before he took office
 
Victoria33 said:
The same is true for any Catholic who casts any vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion.
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That is not why I want to see Trump out, I honestly feel like the man is mentally incapable of the job. For reasons ranging from out right unwillingness to do it correctly to complete mental incompetence.

Plus the man has a huge ego.

Vote a republic Congress in by all means, I just want Trump and his team out.
 
I never entered this thread to say that you or anyone here shouldn’t vote Republican, if that’s what you’ve discerned. I understand well the things that are troubling you, and I respect that you’ve thought it through in deciding how to vote.

I came here, instead of staying in the mudgie threads or casual discussion where I belong 🙂, because a priest declared, “You cannot be a Catholic and a Democrat. Period.” I maintain that is wrong, and I still do.

Anyway, I don’t want a thread like this to strain our friendship. Everyone here has their mind made up already anyway 😒
 
christofirst said:
I sometimes wonder if the different apparitions and visions, which can vary significantly in the tone and content of their message, are divinely provided to appeal to different types of people
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I don’t think they are for different types of people but it is the context and the situation being talked about in each apparition.

In Blessed Julian she talks about the love of God. Just as 1 John 4:7 says God is love. Blessed Julian also said while talking about the love of God that he is like a father and mother. Hebrews 12:6 says He whom the Father loves, He chastises. Verse 5 says do not be wearied while you are rebuked by Him.

Her book is also called Revelations of Divine Love, shewed to a devout servant of Our Lord I take it this means she was obedient to the Church and when not she confessed.

So, for me the apparitions of Our Lady of Akita fit right in there. Because of His love He is being very patient with us and the evil that is happening but also out of His great love for us, He has to stop the evil. What kind of a father would allow evil to continue on those he loves. That love has to include the born and unborn. They are His children too. Would it be right to say all is well with us and the world is becoming very good while others that He loves are suffering death at the hands of those experiencing the the good world?

Also from Blessed Julian: Just as our contrariness here on earth brings us pain, shame and sorrow, so grace brings us surpassing comfort, glory, and bliss in heaven

As Catholics we turn back to God and receive His grace and mercy in the sacraments. In this way we can say, all is well because we are right with God but that doesn’t mean He won’t chastise the world.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
Considering He rejected the Zealots idea of a political Messiah, yes. He didn’t care while He was on this earth. He doesn’t care now.
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If I follow your reasonings, I get to contradiction:
“He doesn’t care” therefore he rejected their politics? A rejection is not an indifference or non-interest! A rejection is a positive denial of their “politics” (of revolution violent beyond reasonable necessity).

Does your reasoning really make sense to you?
 
Anrakyr said:
That is not why I want to see Trump out, I honestly feel like the man is mentally incapable of the job. For reasons ranging from out right unwillingness to do it correctly to complete mental incompetence.

Plus the man has a huge ego.

Vote a republic Congress in by all means, I just want Trump and his team out.
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Fine, that’s just an ad hom attack on Trump.

Let’s see, ISIS caliphate busted, maybe if one is against Trump, we don’t have that.

North Korea not firing missiles off willy nilly at its neighbors and making threats. Maybe if one is against Trump, we don’t have that and by the way, North Korea has just drawn back on a missile attack.

Anyone voting for abortion, especially on demand with laws like ours that are archaic and are only matched by the likes of North Korea, China and Canada I might have a question on their mindset, I might find them to be mentally incompetent. It is human life after all.

Stemmed the flow of migrants coming in from Mexico.

“Man has a huge ego”, “man is not mentally competent”, just a lot of attacks on the man, ad hom.

Goodbye to the persecutors of Christians, ISIS. I don’t know what people think, but I’ll take this every time.

I can likewise, just reel off a number of things I don’t like about anyone including Obama. It’s not much of an argument though.
 
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We had something like “genocide” going on against Christians, the articles are in the dozens if not hundreds. We’ve pretty much put a stop to that. We do not know if other presidents would have stopped it and as quick. We and plenty of partners, it certainly is not like we did it alone, it’s a hornets’ nest over there.

Learn the news, what has gone on. My gosh, people were being beheaded over there. Beyond horrible. And if we go into some place, we should leave it better than it was. Think 2011; we have some accountability here on what happened and everyone of knowledge practically says this.
And let me go on, if we are so bent on immigration, there are very poor people out there, not just from Latin America. Get the poorest wherever in the world they may be if we are calling this a charitable venture.

Back to ISIS, a number of Americans volunteered to fight against them. This may not bother others as much but I very much empathize with those who did and think they did a fine thing. People from Canada, UK, Europe all did as well, Australia too, so this was a big, big deal to some people. Some made the ultimate sacrifice.

Canadian who volunteered to fight with Kurds against ISIS says it’s the ‘right thing to do’​

We aren’t talking about child’s play here.
 
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fide said:
A rejection is not an indifference or non-interest! A rejection is a positive denial of their “politics” (of revolution violent beyond reasonable necessity).

Does your reasoning really make sense to you?
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Yes.

The Zealots weren’t the only political party. He also rejected the Herodians.

The truth is, our two systems are fundamentally opposed to what Jesus came to achieve.

So Jesus of Nazareth has no interest in politics.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
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Julius_Caesar:
Jesus of Nazareth has no interest in politics.
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true, but he does have interest in the good and evil involved in politics:

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And both sides have leaven.

Which is why I’m pro Kingdom.
 
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