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Julius_Caesar
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Fr. Altman and Fr. Martin are merely two sides of the same coin.
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MagdalenaRita
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Julius_Caesar
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Considering both priests dabble in political quandaries, I’d say the only difference is their audience.
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openmind77
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Mussolini was very pro-life. “He cracked down on artificial contraception, raised penalties for abortion, restricted nightlife, regulated women’s clothing and banned homosexual acts among adult men”. Mussolini would easily win the Catholic vote in the US, but probably not win in Italy or Ireland today.nicholasG:
If he was pro-life he wouldn’t have slaughtered anyone. Being pro-life isn’t just about the lives of the pre-born!!
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MarkRome
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Not according to Catholic teaching.
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Victoria33
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Mussolini was an Atheist. “Winning the Catholic Vote”? I think not. “Easily winning” is insulting and by the way, we are just going with Church teaching. I’m sure the way he saw this was just placating the Catholic country of Italy. I’m sure you could compare his views to other Italian politicians of the time and say his views were common, so your statement seems to be misleading.
Abortion was not even legal in Italy until 1978. Your statement seems to be, to put it politely, unkind.
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patricius79
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I don’t understand why you think it’s okay to “smackdown” Fr. Altman. What about his own subjectivity and need to be on a journey?
I wish priests and Bishops and deacons would respect people’s subjective factors, but also preach clearly and often against the objective evils of our day, catechizing their flocks while emphasizing Jesus’s Mercy for all who repent and ask for it.
I wish priests and Bishops and deacons would respect people’s subjective factors, but also preach clearly and often against the objective evils of our day, catechizing their flocks while emphasizing Jesus’s Mercy for all who repent and ask for it.
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MagdalenaRita
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Listening to Father’s talk yesterday with Dr. Marshall, the bishop did not give him a “smackdown”, The letter came out from the bishop before anyone from the diocese said anything to him and it was the Vicar of clergy who discussed it with him.Fr. Altman’s own bishop apparently gave him a thinly veiled smackdown yesterday.
patricius79:
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openmind77
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Mussolini was called "the man whom providence has sent us.” Are you saying they called all the other Italian politicians the same thing?
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Victoria33
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Is your statement the whole story? What is this in reference to?
Again, your citation seems out-of-context.
Also, if one is just throwing statements out there, what are we suppose to do? Support “gendercide” as occurs in India? This is all an off-topic detour now. And some of this in India is post-birth since one made a point of mentioning pro-life views. Are we suppose to support this?
http://www.missionfrontiers.org/issue/article/gendercide-in-india
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openmind77
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We are discussing how to decide whom to vote for. I am merely saying by your criteria Mussolini is a great choice. It is is not just thrown out like your India statement.
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Victoria33
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But Mussolini was a declared atheist? So, Catholics would see Mussolini as a great choice? By the way, Italy has those elections with many parties. Perhaps the others would be just as attractive, the way you are framing your argument clearly seems to deride the Catholic Church.
Might as well say Jesus Christ, Leonardo Da Vinci and so on, would be great choices to vote for.
No, it’s an absurdity. Mussolini tried to change the racial laws, etc. Stood for the persecution of the Church. I do not see where he declared himself Catholic.openmind77 said:
It’s absurd, I know the Soviet Union helped pioneer abortion. Are you saying you would vote for Stalin?
And who believed in eugenics and thus, supported abortion? I don’t like Godwin’s law, so I will leave it there.
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openmind77
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Mussolini changed his atheist beliefs and became a great Church supporter. He was anti-abortion and anti-gay - wouldn’t you vote for him if he was running against Biden?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
To be fair, justifying your vote exclusively on anti-abortion issues is allowed by the Church teaching. It is just not required, as some here seem to think.
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Anrakyr
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I should use that next time I hear someone getting fired.
“Yeah sorry, criticizing my work is a ad homin. Logical fallacy, you can’t fire me.”
Not only is that rebuttable complete misuse of fallacy but it has no application in employment practices.
When you picture a king for example there’s people standing around the throne are called advisors. Every king who doesn’t have advisors normally as the story goes doesn’t last long.
The point about his ego is that no one can correct him. No one can advise him, as a ruler that should disqualify for the job.
Which again leads us back to hiring practice. “Can’t take criticism” is a perfectly acceptable reason for reprimand.
He was a terrible leader and had buckets of blood on his hands, He shouldn’t have been president BUT not for the reasons of not being able to do the job. Morally I find the man completely repugnant but as far as qualifications go… can’t argue.
Trump on the other hand is morally repugnant AND can’t do the job.
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PaulinVA
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Methinks that openmind77 is toying with some of the posters here.
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fide
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Well Julius, I’d like to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s, so I’ll have to give “no interest” to you (nothing personal -
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Julius_Caesar
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His Kingdom is not of this world.Well Julius, I’d like to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s, so I’ll have to give “no interest” to you (nothing personal -
Make sense?
Makes sense.
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Anrakyr
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“Its not my focus.” And “Completely disinterested.” Are two entirely different things.
Jesus is God, God instructed the Hebrews how to boot strap a civilization from scratch. When pressed (even if God said he wasn’t fond of the idea) Still told them how they can choose a king and more importantly told his prophet what to do. Not once but twice.
So tell me how Jesus (not a separate entity in God) has no interest?
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fide
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Yes these are valid moral concerns! BUT! please consider and answer a hypothetical:
Which is MORE immoral and criminal, and which is LESS:
1) candidate AA who seems to not care enough about large corporations that are behaving irresponsibly toward public safety - but he is a “law-and-order guy”; OR
2) the other candidate, BB who advocates legalizing licensed killers to kidnap and murder corporate CEO’s who do not care enough about public safety.
Is killing persons who are inconvenient or objectionable to me, an acceptable solution to a problem?
You do know what abortion IS, right?
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