Fr. Pfleger calls for women priests, cardinals

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Cardinal George managed to quickly extract a lukewarm apology from a priest who, in that very apology, failed to repudiate his heretical views.

A decidedly partial victory for the truth. In the depressing “spirit of Vatican II” allow me to say what Catholics have been saying for decades: “Well, I guess it’s better than nothing.”
 
Adeodatus said:
Cardinal George managed to quickly extract a lukewarm apology from a priest who, in that very apology, failed to repudiate his heretical views.

A decidedly partial victory for the truth. In the depressing “spirit of Vatican II” allow me to say what Catholics have been saying for decades: “Well, I guess it’s better than nothing.”
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It might help to remember that the Church has been looking
at the situation for a looooong time. The wheels of justice grind slowly.
 
catharina said:
It might help to remember that the Church has been looking
at the situation for a looooong time. The wheels of justice grind slowly.
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That’s an interesting statement. Does this mean that you agree that more should be done in regard to Father Pfleger? You agree that he has pushed the envelope just too many times?
 
Brooklyn said:
That’s an interesting statement. Does this mean that you agree that more should be done in regard to Father Pfleger? You agree that he has pushed the envelope just too many times?
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I’m stating that this is an ongoing situation.
Doesn’t everyone recognize that?

I don’t second-guess the Church -
that includes the Pope and his Bishops.
 
catharina said:
I’m stating that this is an ongoing situation.
Doesn’t everyone recognize that?

I don’t second-guess the Church -
that includes the Pope and his Bishops.
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I’m not talking about second guessing the church. As you stated in bold letters above, this thread is about Fr. Pfleger’s behaviour. I’m assuming that you agree that he was out of bounds in calling for women to be priests, bishops and cardinals and calling for married clergy.

If you don’t have an opinion, but yet you say it is an “ongoing situation,” then I don’t quite understand what you are saying. What is the “ongoing situation?”
 
Brooklyn said:
I’m not talking about second guessing the church. As you stated in bold letters above, this thread is about Fr. Pfleger’s behaviour. I’m assuming that you agree that he was out of bounds in calling for women to be priests, bishops and cardinals and calling for married clergy.

I agree with the Cardinal who asked for the retraction.

If you don’t have an opinion, but yet you say it is an “ongoing situation,” then I don’t quite understand what you are saying. What is the “ongoing situation?”

Please! Issues have arisen in the past with Father Pfleger. FACT.
The Cardinal takes action as needed. FACT.
Are you pretending that is not a “situation?”
Do I imagine that I know more about this than Cardinal George? NO.
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catharina said:
I’m stating that this is an ongoing situation.
Doesn’t everyone recognize that?

I don’t second-guess the Church -
that includes the Pope and his Bishops.
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You ought to second guess the Pope and his Bishops when they need second guessing. It seems the word “Church” is often used imprecisely. You should not second guess the Magisterial teaching of the Church. But those in the institutions of the Church, the clergy, lay leadership, even the Pope (unless speaking ex cathedra), are subject to error. I think that we have not only a right to second guess, but often a duty.

Now in this particular instance, I don’t know enough about the various issues that the Cardinal must consider. Fr. Pfleger has a background of tremendous involvement in crime-ridden, impoverished communities, which makes him a great “community organizer.” But he also appears (in my opinion and based on my observations) to be utterly consumed by pride, which makes him a terrible priest. The fact that the Cardinal was able to so promptly extract an apology (even as tepid as it was) from the prideful priest is testament to some skill on the Cardinal’s part. Those who claim some more immediate punitive and dramatic approach was in order probably have little idea of the pastoral and bureacratic considerations and limitations faced by the Cardinal. For all we know, this is yet another figurative nail in Fr. Pfleger’s coffin. But taking one of the more draconian approaches suggested in this thread may well do more harm than good in the Cardinal’s estimation. The prideful Fr. Pfleger needs a conversion where he finds humility and becomes a good priest or he needs a change of circumstances imposed upon him so that he no longer imperils souls. But second guessing the method and timing of this is beyond my abilities.
 
Super_Grover said:
You ought to second guess the Pope and his Bishops when they need second guessing.
You might have a need to do that. I don’t.
It seems the word “Church” is often used imprecisely. You should not second guess the Magisterial teaching of the Church. But those in the institutions of the Church, the clergy, lay leadership, even the Pope (unless speaking ex cathedra), are subject to error. I think that we have not only a right to second guess, but often a duty.

Now in this particular instance, I don’t know enough about the various issues that the Archbishop must consider. Fr. Pfleger has a background of tremendous involvement in crime-ridden, impoverished communities, which makes him a great “community organizer.” But he also appears (in my opinion and based on my observations) to be utterly consumed by pride, which makes him a terrible priest. The fact that the Archbishop was able to so promptly extract an apology (even as tepid as it was) from the prideful priest is testament to some skill on the Archbishop’s part. Those who claim some more immediate punitive and dramatic approach was in order probably have little idea of the pastoral and bureacratic considerations and limitations faced by the Archbishop. For all we know, this is yet another figurative nail in Fr. Pfleger’s coffin. But taking one of the more draconian approaches suggested in this thread may well do more harm than good in the Archbishop’s estimation. The prideful Fr. Pfleger needs a conversion where he finds humility and becomes a good priest or he needs a change of circumstances imposed upon him so that he no longer imperils souls. But second guessing the method and timing of this is beyond my abilities.
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To follow blindly and not question things that look wrong–things we are not required to accept-- is irrational, and contrary to human nature as we are intellectual beings with rational souls that God gave us.

Many Bishops, and even Popes, have done bad things in the past. Not questioning bad bahavior is what has gotten us in trouble in the past and in the present. Do you not realize this from the sex abuse scandal and the poor handling of it by some bishops? Should they not be questioned or criticized?
 
You also seem to choose who you will question or follow. The Church has declared women’s ordination as Heresy but you do not accept it. You kept asking “who is to judge”, the Church has spoken. Accept it.
 
catharina, we are called to be humble, not blind.

For instance, I loved JPII, but do I question his allegiance to Maciel? You bet I do. I’d be shocked if you did not.

I had a parish priest taking Sunday homilies as an opportunity to bash our Bishop. Did I second guess this? You bet I did. I went and spoke with him. I told him that regardless of whether or not he was correct in some of his complaints, that I thought that he was sowing dissension.

Do I question the decisions to shuffle around rapist priests rather than ensure that they have no access to victims? You bet I do.

Do I question the eternal truths contained in the Church’s magisterial teaching (including the issues about the ordination of women)? Not on your life.
 
Inhimthroughher said:
You also seem to choose who you will question or follow. The Church has declared women’s ordination as Heresy but you do not accept it. You kept asking “who is to judge”, the Church has spoken. Accept it.
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I’m going to guess you’re addressing me?
I have never supported women’s ordination, married priests, etc…
You’re guessing a LOT - and if that’s about me, you are very wrong.
 
We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel… It is a trial which the whole Church . . . must take up.
—Pope John Paul II
reprinted November 9, 1978, issue of The Wall Street Journal

.
God Bless.
+Peace In Christ.
Love, Dawn
 
Super_Grover said:
catharina, we are called to be humble, not blind.

For instance, I loved JPII, but do I question his allegiance to Maciel? You bet I do. I’d be shocked if you did not.

I had a parish priest taking Sunday homilies as an opportunity to bash our Bishop. Did I second guess this? You bet I did. I went and spoke with him. I told him that regardless of whether or not he was correct in some of his complaints, that I thought that he was sowing dissension.

Do I question the decisions to shuffle around rapist priests rather than ensure that they have no access to victims? You bet I do.

Do I question the eternal truths contained in the Church’s magisterial teaching (including the issues about the ordination of women)? Not on your life.
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You must have alot of time on your hands to be questioning
the history of Pope John Paul II.
God has the judgment, only God.
If you wish to make your guesses into “pronouncements” that’s on you.
 
catharina said:
I’m going to guess you’re addressing me?
I have never supported women’s ordination, married priests, etc…
You’re guessing a LOT - and if that’s about me, you are very wrong.
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You were unwilling to call this Heresy earlier in the thread. If you believe it is Heresy and agree with the Church please clarify.
 
Inhimthroughher said:
You were unwilling to call this Heresy earlier in the thread. If you believe it is Heresy and agree with the Church please clarify.
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I do NOT declare matters to be heresy - and neither should you.
That’s a call that the CHURCH makes after long investigation.
I can only guess that you know that too.

Get it yet???
 
I ❤️ Cardinal George.

Sorry, just trying to spread some love in this thread. 😉

The creation of the Didache textbook series alone (at Cardinal George’s request) is reason enough for me to forever think of him with fondness. 🙂
 
catharina said:
You must have alot of time on your hands to be questioning
the history of Pope John Paul II.
God has the judgment, only God.
If you wish to make your guesses into “pronouncements” that’s on you.
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I don’t know if you are deliberately appearing to misunderstand, or if this is a function of the limitations of trying to communicate only in writing. I’ll make the charitable assumption and give this one more try. “Questioning” the decisions and conduct of others is not substituting our judgment for God’s. “Judge not lest ye be judged” is one of the most misused verses, by the way. But if you believe that you are to uncritically accept every statement and every decision of every Bishop and every Pope without “question”, you are going to be in for a world of intolerable pyschological tension when some of those statements and decisions conflict, as they invariably do. You are called to use the brain that God gave you.
 
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