Freemasons?

[TheExorcist]

Well, according to my friends, who are masons, they are not made to reject whatever religion they practice. The order requires that their members worship God in whatever religon the member practices. As I’ve said earlier, two of my friends who are masons are Baptist, and one is Catholic and certainly does not deny the Trinity.

Not exactly correct. The fraternity requires a belief in a supreme being. Other than that there is no requirement. I think we may only have two or three members of my Lodge who are active in their church.

 

[Rascalking]

Not exactly correct. The fraternity requires a belief in a supreme being. Other than that there is no requirement. I think we may only have two or three members of my Lodge who are active in their church.

The majority of Masons I know, including some family members, are God fearing men.

 

[thistle]

I’m not missing the point. The Catholic friend of mine who is also a Mason had never heard of that particular teaching when he became one, and after I told him, disregarded it as silly. He believes the masons to be non-restrictive, he knows they are good for our community, and the masons are always there when someone needs them. It’s a little difficult for someone to take seriously such a Church teaching when there is proof right there in front of them that booms the opposite: that the masons with whom he associates is quite the opposite of the bad guy the Church makes them out to be. In a way, I understand him. Here we have a group in the community that nurtures a brotherhood among the men, drops everything at a dime when someone needs help, provides charity work and donations to the poor, sick and elderly, and has high expectations of its members. He’s Catholic, and they’ve never ever given him a hard time about it. According to him, each member is allowed to practice their religion without question. So while I can understand your persepctive, I understand his as well.

If he really did not know there was a teaching about Catholics not being allowed to be Freemasons then of course up to the point you told him he had not committed a mortal sin. Now he knows. That means he must cease to be a Freemason otherwise he is in a state of mortal sin. He cannot disregard the teaching as silly. If he dies unrepentent then he does to Hell.

 

[Rence]

If he really did not know there was a teaching about Catholics not being allowed to be Freemasons then of course up to the point you told him he had not committed a mortal sin. Now he knows. That means he must cease to be a Freemason otherwise he is in a state of mortal sin. He cannot disregard the teaching as silly. If he dies unrepentent then he does to Hell.

Well he does disregard the teaching as silly and unfounded. How can he not? He’s been a mason for years and participating in their support of the community. They are his friends and brothers. He’s not going to all of a sudden have light bulb pop up over his head and light up just because I told him about the Church forbidding one from becoming a mason. It goes against everything he experienced as true. It would be as crazy as someone saying that the Church considers Mother Teresa a heretic and evil.

I doubt he will go to Hell. He’s following his conscience and not committing any harm. In fact, his connection with the masons has given him opportunities to do good for those in need.

It’s a bit presumptuous to claim that one person or another will go to Hell if this or that doesn’t happen. Only God is privy to the state of someone’s soul at the time of their death…

 

[thistle]

Well he does disregard the teaching as silly and unfounded. How can he not? He’s been a mason for years and participating in their support of the community. They are his friends and brothers. He’s not going to all of a sudden have light bulb pop up over his head and light up just because I told him about the Church forbidding one from becoming a mason. It goes against everything he experienced as true. It would be as crazy as someone saying that the Church considers Mother Teresa a heretic and evil.

I doubt he will go to Hell. He’s following his conscience and not committing any harm. In fact, his connection with the masons has given him opportunities to do good for those in need.

It’s a bit presumptuous to claim that one person or another will go to Hell if this or that doesn’t happen. Only God is privy to the state of someone’s soul at the time of their death…

You are right about one thing. Only God knows the state of someone’s soul at death. However, because it is a Church teaching we can objectively state that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.
The Church says that a Catholic who is a Freemason is in a state of mortal sin and so such a person dying unrepentent will go to Hell.

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

**Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. **

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

• Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
  Titular Archbishop of Lorium

 

[Rence]

You are right about one thing. Only God knows the state of someone’s soul at death. However, because it is a Church teaching we can objectively state that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.
The Church says that a Catholic who is a Freemason is in a state of mortal sin and so such a person dying unrepentent will go to Hell.

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

Thanks, but I doubt this will change his mind…

 

[Edward_Henry]

He’s Catholic, and they’ve never ever given him a hard time about it. According to him, each member is allowed to practice their religion without question.

Yes, but accepting this “generous” membership policy has secondary consecuences. This policy suggests a membership requirement has very dangerous implications for a true believer: .

Yes, “each member is allowed to practice their religion without question” but in private.

Since, no religion is greater than another, all religions are the same. In the lodge, Jesus has no greater place than Buddah or Mohammed - No member should impose his religion on another, therefore every member should check his religion at the door and keep his beliefs to himself. (Same tragic strategy imposed in our public high schools to restrain our young from openly professing their faith.) A very high price to pay for a believer!

 

[The_Rock]

Well he does disregard the teaching as silly and unfounded. How can he not?..He’s following his conscience and not committing any harm.

If his conscience is well formed he will not dismiss the Church’s teaching on this out of hand. If his personal experience does not lead him to the same conclusion, he should investigate the theological reasons why the Church takes it’s position. Since he is no longer ignorant of the Church’s position he can choose to obey, or be separated from the Church. Unfortunately many choose to ignore the teachings of the Church on a myriad of serious issues, at the peril of their souls

 

[Brother_Steve]

Hummm, so as a Grand Master, you swore an oath not to ever reveal and to keep concealed the secrets of the Lodge. How could you now speak openly about it now in this forum?

I was only Master of my Lodge, not a Grand Master who would be the head of the jurisdiction.
And to be honest only a few things are “secret” about the ritual. Funny that the first Grand Lodge opened in 1717 and the first expose on the rituals and ceremonies were publicly published less than 20 years later… so much for secrets

 

[Brother_Steve]

Yes, “each member is allowed to practice their religion without question” but in private.

Since, no religion is greater than another, all religions are the same. In the lodge, Jesus has no greater place than Buddah or Mohammed - No member should impose his religion on another, therefore every member should check his religion at the door and keep his beliefs to himself. (Same tragic strategy imposed in our public high schools to restrain our young from openly professing their faith.) A very high price to pay for a believer!

OK lets set this straight, on religion in lodge, the rule is that as the same as politics. While in a official meeting religion and politics are not allowed. Otherwise everyone is free to talk about whatever you like, in the parking lot the dinning room in the lobby going into the meeting. It is only during the meeting. So no no one has to be private about their religion.

Next, NO no one is required to view all beliefs equally, that is not what Masonry teaches. No one is required to “check their faith at the door”, and since it is a FRATERNITY and not a Religious arena, the subject like politics is not allowed.
The meeting is about operating the fraternity and not about converting some people. That is not what the meeting is for no more than a boy scout meeting, or Rotary, or Kiwanis is to convert members.

 

[Edward_Henry]

I was only Master of my Lodge, not a Grand Master who would be the head of the jurisdiction.
And to be honest only a few things are “secret” about the ritual. Funny that the first Grand Lodge opened in 1717 and the first expose on the rituals and ceremonies were publicly published less than 20 years later… so much for secrets

Right!

OK lets set this straight, on religion in lodge, the rule is that as the same as politics. While in a official meeting religion and politics are not allowed. Otherwise everyone is free to talk about whatever you like, in the parking lot the dinning room in the lobby going into the meeting. It is only during the meeting. So no no one has to be private about their religion.

Yeah, also our kids in our public schools are* graciously *allowed to discuss religion in the parking lot. But inside, they must not ***offend ***others with names such as “Jesus” so they must “keep it to themselves.” Any similarities?

Leave it to the new strategical laws of “political correctness” in America. = You are free to believe in any God but keep it to yourself. By the way, how many current members of the Supreme Court are masons?

To Jesus through Mary

 

[Edward_Henry]

[QUOTEFunny that the first Grand Lodge opened in 1717 and the first expose on the rituals and ceremonies were publicly published less than 20 years later]

Funny of how busy they have been all over Europe since that grand openning in London in 1717!

How did the freemasons led by Robespierre treat the Catholic Church in France during the French Revolution? How many priests were killed?

How did the freemasons, under the name of “Carbonarians” treat the Catholic Church in Portugal after the assassination of the last Portuguese king in 1919? How many priests were arrested by the new Carbonarian republican government?

There are plenty of reliable historical sources to respond to both of these questions.

 

[Rascalking]

The freemasons also killed Kennedy, Jimmy Hoffa, Elvis, and my grandfather. They were responible for 9/11, the Cold War, Iraq, and the English civil war. They stole my bike in 5th grade, have a computer with the name of every Catholic in the world, caused the stock market crash in the 20’s, personally placed an iceberg in the Atlantic sinking the Titanic, and are planning world dominiation.

They also burnt my grilled cheese sandwich I made last night.

 

[Edward_Henry]

Funny of how busy they have been all over Europe since that grand openning in London in 1717!

How did the freemasons led by Robespierre treat the Catholic Church in France during the French Revolution? How many priests were killed?

How did the freemasons, under the name of “Carbonarians,” treat the Catholic Church in Portugal after the assassination of the last Portuguese king in 1919? How many priests were arrested by the new Carbonarian republican government?

There are plenty of reliable historical sources to respond to both of these questions.

The freemasons also killed Kennedy, Jimmy Hoffa, Elvis, and my grandfather. They were responible for 9/11, the Cold War, Iraq, and the English civil war. They stole my bike in 5th grade, have a computer with the name of every Catholic in the world, caused the stock market crash in the 20’s, personally placed an iceberg in the Atlantic sinking the Titanic, and are planning world dominiation.

They also burnt my grilled cheese sandwich I made last night.

Boy, Rascalking, you are definitely so*** funny***.:dancing: I do not know what this forum would do without your ridicule and your amazing sarcastic humor… especially when it serves to cover the fact that you cannot answer the above questions. Thank you so much for the humor

The term ‘Conspiracy Theory’ is a term developed, popularized and employed by conspirators to ridicule those who are close to uncover their conspiracy to the masses

 

[Rascalking]

Boy, Raskalking, you are definitely so funny. I do not know what this forum would do without your ridicule and your amazing sarcastic humor… especially when it serves to cover the fact that you cannot answer the above questions. Thank you so much for the humor

The term ‘Conspiracy Theory’ is a term developed, popularized and employed by conspirators to ridicule those who are close to uncover their conspiracy to the masses

You bet I can’t answer them! No, no, no.

Thankfully, we have people like you who see the light and know the truth. You can protect all of us who are blind.

 

[Edward_Henry]

You bet I can’t answer them! No, no, no.

Thankfully, we have people like you who see the light and know the truth. You can protect all of us who are blind.

But you should try to answer them, after all, they burned your cheese sandwich!

So here they go again:

**How did the freemasons led by Robespierre treat the Catholic Church in France during the French Revolution? How many priests were killed?

How did the freemasons, under the name of “Carbonarians,” treat the Catholic Church in Portugal after the assassination of the last Portuguese king in 1919? How many priests were arrested by the new Carbonarian republican government?

There are plenty of reliable historical sources** to respond to both of these questions.

 

[GEddie]

Right!

Yeah, also our kids in our public schools are* graciously *allowed to discuss religion in the parking lot. But inside, they must not ***offend ***others with names such as “Jesus” so they must “keep it to themselves.” Any similarities?

Leave it to the new strategical laws of “political correctness” in America. = You are free to believe in any God but keep it to yourself. By the way, how many current members of the Supreme Court are masons?

To Jesus through Mary

Can’t say about the USSC. Wiki is your friend

However, ISTR that all of the US Preisdents, except Lincoln, were Masons. The same pattern has held in other countries, as well. One of Mexico’s 19th-century revolutions is said to have initiated as a squabble between factions of Masonry.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

 

[Rascalking]

Can’t say about the USSC. Wiki is your friend

However, ISTR that all of the US Presidents, except Lincoln, were Masons. The same pattern has held in other countries, as well. One of Mexico’s 19th-century revolutions is said to have initiated as a squabble between factions of Masonry.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

Whoops! Forgot that one too!

The English reformation, beheading of Charles Ist, Russian Revolution, and the video game, Dance Dance Revolution are all the fault of them as well.

Let’s add some more.

 

[Edward_Henry]

Whoops! Forgot that one too!

The English reformation, beheading of Charles Ist, Russian Revolution, and the video game, Dance Dance Revolution are all the fault of them as well.

Let’s add some more.

There we go again, attempting to avoid answering a valid question by using ‘ridicule’. But the strategy is running weak in this forum.

Instead, why not increase the validity of your position by attempting to answer the above question?

How did the*** freemasons ***led by Robespierre treat the ***Catholic Church ***in France during the French Revolution? How many priests were killed?

How did the*** freemasons***, under the name of “Carbonarians,” treat the Catholic Church in Portugal after the assassination of the last Portuguese king in 1919? How many priests were arrested by the new Carbonarian republican government?

There are plenty of reliable historical sources to respond to both of these questions.

**The term ‘Conspiracy Theory’ is a term developed, popularized and employed by conspirators to ridicule those who are close to uncover their conspiracy to the masses **

 

[Rascalking]

There we go again, attempting to avoid answering a valid question by using ‘ridicule’. But the strategy is running weak in this forum.

Instead, why not attempt to answer the above question?

The term ‘Conspiracy Theory’ is a term developed, popularized and employed by conspirators to ridicule those who are close to uncover their conspiracy to the masses

Like I said before, no answer could ever satisfy you.

It’s a waste of time to talk to people who believe in conspiracies, so I just make fun of them. I used too, in my college days, try to argue/debate/reason with them.

I knew a lady who thought some random chick was the “last heir to the Russian throne” When DNA evidence came out that proved 99.9 percent that she wasn’t who she said she was, the chick didn’t believe it. So what’s the point?

People who believe in these theories are the equivalent to the homeless man on the street who smells like whiskey at 9:30 in the morning and screams that he is Napoleon Bonaparte. Is he? No. But try to convince him of that.