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Bahman
Guest
Nope, this is outcome of my imagination, timeless God and act, which leads to a very illogical concept. This is called abstraction and I am putting the very concept in its own place.
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Bahman
Guest
You cut the part you wish to conclude what you like. I already mentioned that there could be no end for truth. The problem is that you attached a concept of God to ultimate truth thinking that your definition is consistent when they are not. Just think of it. A creator needs time to create anything since any act is related to a change. Your creator is however timeless which means that he has to create time first which is paradoxical. The problem is that you call this mystery and I call it inconsistent because I think that the truth cannot be paradoxical.
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Bookcat
Guest
Begin with an incorrect abstraction - end with incorrect conclusion.
Yes such is imagination sure. But not about God.
Not discussing God as God is.
Like if I started imagining that my three children had alien DNA - that would not make it so - but would be pure fiction. If I want to imagine about reality concerning my children I must think actually about* my* children. Human children.
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Bookcat
Guest
Revelation by God manifests truth regarding God…the love of God etc etc.
231 The God of our faith has revealed himself as HE WHO IS; and he has made himself known as “abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness” (Ex 34:6). God’s very being is Truth and Love. (Catechism scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm)
It is yes also mystery.
Even the human person is “mystery” - I can never know fully my wife or any of my children.
God is more so.
We can truly know truth about God - yes. But yet God will remain mystery…
231 The God of our faith has revealed himself as HE WHO IS; and he has made himself known as “abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness” (Ex 34:6). God’s very being is Truth and Love. (Catechism scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm)
It is yes also mystery.
Even the human person is “mystery” - I can never know fully my wife or any of my children.
God is more so.
We can truly know truth about God - yes. But yet God will remain mystery…
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Bookcat
Guest
Catechism 230:
Even when he reveals himself, God remains a mystery beyond words: “If you understood him, it would not be God” (St. Augustine, Sermo 52, 6, 16: PL 38, 360 and Sermo 117, 3, 5: PL 38, 663).
Even when he reveals himself, God remains a mystery beyond words: “If you understood him, it would not be God” (St. Augustine, Sermo 52, 6, 16: PL 38, 360 and Sermo 117, 3, 5: PL 38, 663).
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onenow1
Guest
From post 213
Did you read this ?
God could change things through intervention, that does not mean that there is any change within the nature of God, because he knew from all eternity that he would create the world and save it from its sins. In one sense everything is seen and done by God from all eternity. There is no change here. But from the viewpoint of creatures in the world there is change and improvement. Now if God were finite, there would have to be a change in him when he worked changes in the world. In that case God could not be perfect, changeless, immutable. But God is infinite, a nature that we cannot comprehend… Perhaps another way to look at it is this. God is Being or Existence Itself and therefore absolutely complete.
God Bless
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Bahman
Guest
That is you who are committing a wrong imagination not me. I am just taking your attention to the very fact that timeless being who see everything cannot possibly perform any act with a fruit of change so called creation.
Why not?
What discussion? God is God?
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Bookcat
Guest
See posts above.
Your going round and round - again trying to think of God as if he was not God. As if God was in time or a create creature …
Trying to imagine why the car’s peddles do not go round like your bicycle.
A car is not a bicycle.
God is not a creature.
God is God.
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Bahman
Guest
The bold parts contradict each others since creation has to be part of what God sees from eternity since God is timeless, hence such a God cannot commit the act of creation.From post 213
Did you read this ?
God could change things through intervention, that does not mean that there is any change within the nature of God, because he knew from all eternity that he would create the world and save it from its sins. In one sense everything is seen and done by God from all eternity. There is no change here. But from the viewpoint of creatures in the world there is change and improvement. Now if God were finite, there would have to be a change in him when he worked changes in the world. In that case God could not be perfect, changeless, immutable. But God is infinite, a nature that we cannot comprehend… Perhaps another way to look at it is this. God is Being or Existence Itself and therefore absolutely complete.
God Bless
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MarcoPolo
Guest
No, I do not believe a decision can only be free if it is indeterminable. If God “knows” our decision “prior” to us experiencing that decision in time, it would not take away the freedom of the decision. Therefore, a decision can be determinable and still free.
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Bahman
Guest
Can you perform an act in absence of time?
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Bookcat
Guest
Case in point. Yet another example!
Your going round and round - again trying to think of God as if he was not God. As if God was in time or a create creature …
Trying to imagine why the car’s peddles do not go round like your bicycle.
A car is not a bicycle.
God is not a creature.
God is God.
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Bahman
Guest
How God could know? Guessing or seeing?
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Bahman
Guest
And you are not making any point at all.
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clem456
Guest
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Bookcat
Guest
Yes I am but you do not seem to want to receive it. Or need to read it some more and sit with it.
It is key to your misunderstandings regarding the Faith we profess and our reasoning about Revelation.
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Bahman
Guest
How timeless God can create then?No, I cannot perform an act in the absence of time.
What’s the point?
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davidv
Guest
He is God. He does not need time to create.
You are a creature. You require time to create.
You are not God.
Your limitations are not God’s limitations.
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Bahman
Guest
What is the very concept of creation in timeless frame? In the place that there is no change? Very ironic! Isn’t it?
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davidv
Guest
Sarcasm is said to be the second last effort of one without a rational argument.
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