God or Allah?

[Americanrevert]

**Hello,

by Psalte[rQUOTE]I know that Allah is simply the Arabic word for God and that it is used by Arabic-speaking Christians. But why is it that Muslims use the word “Allah” for God even when they are speaking English?

It is the name He has given Himself. So, just because a name is used, say a person’s name is Abdulla, you gonna call him by another name in another language? Silly nonsense. His name is Abdullah not Abby, not Arron, not Joe. Simply Abdulla. So why the fuss? get real

by Lutheran

1: Pluralis Maiestatis is a European invention.

2: “Allah” does not mean “The only one to be worshipped”.
“Allah” was the name of the supreme idols among the 360 idols worshipped in the Ka’aba in Mecca. His function was rather similar to Odin in Norse mythology.

3: “Allah” is not a name. It is a “title”, if you will

.

This is only what you think you know as being correct, but others can and do know more. and no thank you, my words are sufficient enough.

americanrevert**

 

[Angelos]

**Hello,

It is the name He has given Himself. So, just because a name is used, say a person’s name is Abdulla, you gonna call him by another name in another language? Silly nonsense. His name is Abdullah not Abby, not Arron, not Joe. Simply Abdulla. So why the fuss? get real

**

We are still waiting for evidence from the Koran that Allah is the name of the Islamic Creator.

Since the Koran repetitively claims that Jews, Christians, and even pagans invoked the name of Allah, the word Allah is clearly the equivalent of the word “God”.

 

[dzheremi]

So if God is unlimited (I agree), and Muslims claim they do not limit Him, then why do Muslims say that God cannot or would not take human form in the body of Jesus for the salvation of His creation? I do not understand how this protestation fits in with the idea that God can do everything. Either he can do everything including what Christians claim He did in the person of Jesus, or He can’t do everything, period.

Please note that I am not asking you to accept that Jesus is God, only to answer for me how it makes sense that God is unlimited and can do anything He wants, but He can’t or won’t do that. Is there someplace in the Quran where God says “I will not save mankind, because that is below me to do so”, as Muslims claim it is somehow below God’s stature as Creator to take the form of His creation if He so chooses to do so?

I don’t get it. Either God proves how great He is by taunting His own creation (as He likewise does when He challenges anyone to come up with a book greater than the Quran, right? He obviously wouldn’t put forth such a challenge if He knew someone could do it, and He DOES know if someone can or not, so what is the point of this other than Islamic boastfulness?), or Islam is seriously in error here.

The latter is true, since God is not a jerk.

 

[inJESUS]

Dzheremi, good post.

 

[tGette]

Dzheremi, good post.

Agreed!

I always felt like Islam put a limit on God’s (Allah’s, Adonai’s, etc. [whatever language you speak]) ability as Creator.

I never liked their concept of God being master and judge only and with no true intimate concern for His creation.

Of course, God cannot sin, but this does not mean His power is limited. It just shows that He is not a hypocrite.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**Hello and assalaamu’alaykum wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatu!

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahad, in simplistic terms, means,

Say! He, Allah is the One…(ahad means one).**

See, many times in the Quran, the term “Qul” is used and related to Mohammad(sws) meaning for him to “Say”…to people, mankind, jinn, etc.

By Angelos

Ever wonder what Allaluia means?

by Dzheremi

hmmm man is mortal…so, your 1/3 god, that you claim is not God but yet God in the flesh, is sinful and was born in sin?

By Isa

So, this “I Am” is thrown out the winda eh?

Obviously not, as He said it while on Earth, and in the halo on every Orthodox Icon of Christ I AM (Greek, o wn) is written.

Before we go further, covnert, what do you say about the pain in the grave? Is the soul something dfferent from the body or not?

Btw everyone. Just delete american converts name and quote with the script command, and all the annoying scirpt problems she isnt’ on inflicting go away.

 

[Americanrevert]

Hello

by Dzheremi,

So if God is unlimited (I agree), and Muslims claim they do not limit Him, then why do Muslims say that God cannot or would not take human form in the body of Jesus for the salvation of His creation? I do not understand how this protestation fits in with the idea that God can do everything. Either he can do everything including what Christians claim He did in the person of Jesus, or He can’t do everything, period.

We must look at why they say that God DOESN’T…it is all in the Quran. They (Muslims) are to obey His Last Message and the belief in His Last Message to mankind. Allah says in the Quran He is the only One, that He has no sons that He says no one is compared unto Him etc. He makes this claim, the Muslims spread it. Muslims say what Allah Himself says in the Quran. God doesn’t need man, man needs God. Allah, the Only One Worthy of Worship, does what He wills, how He wills, to Whom He wants and etc…He created mankind, the universe and every living thing and much much more. *** Man has no right to claim God has done this or anything action or by word, without the stamp of approval from God Himself.*** And Allah says Himself in the Quran that He is protecting His Last Message and that Mankind should take heed of it. It isn’t the Muslims that say God can’t do anything…in that sense, but they say what Allah says…that He is in control.

God created you, He sustains you, He gives life and takes life. He Himself gave us guidelines to follow. In this we believe and we are to believe that God Himself as the Supreme Being He is, if He claims that no one can decrease Him in anything (you do not believe makin Himself lower in estimation is a decrease?)…common sense…God is above such man-made ideals. Jesus was sent to the nation of the house of Israel…he was risen up and is to come again…this does not make him into a God by no means…Muslims must accept Jesus as one of Allah’s mightiest messengers and the words of Jesus are true. The Bible cannot claim positively that the words they are reading are from Jesus himself, especially if they cannot claim that the “according to” books are even by whom they say they are.

I don’t get it. Either God proves how great He is by taunting His own creation (as He likewise does when He challenges anyone to come up with a book greater than the Quran, right? He obviously wouldn’t put forth such a challenge if He knew someone could do it, and He DOES know if someone can or not, so what is the point of this other than Islamic boastfulness?), or Islam is seriously in error here.

The latter is true, since God is not a jerk.

ok, think of it like this, Muslims know that Allah created His Last Message and sent it to the last chosen messenger. He knows who will believe and who will not believe. He already knows this. He puts forth His own claims.…not Mohammad, not the people of explaining the Quran, not the companions of Mohammad, but Allah Himself and ***who can dare contradict God? Anyone dare to? *** God is serious and this is His Last Message. It isn’t a boastfulness, it is more of a pride for their Creator…not for oneself, but Allah, who no one can beat in a challenge. Allah challenges man and the unseen. We have no right to take up that challenge simply due to the fact that He is our Creator and He says you will never be able to win. We are nothing but to be humble servants to our Creator.

americanrevert

 

[Americanrevert]

Some people are just rude and mean to be…just the opposite of what they try and teach people to be!

Isa

Obviously not, as He said it while on Earth, and in the halo on every Orthodox Icon of Christ I AM (Greek, o wn) is written.

Before we go further, covnert, what do you say about the pain in the grave? Is the soul something dfferent from the body or not?

Btw everyone. Just delete american converts name and quote with the script command, and all the annoying scirpt problems she isnt’ on inflicting go away

I really don’t know if you are up to understanding what we Muslims believe, you might not be able to grasp the meaning of my posts.

you are just rude.

 

[dzheremi]

To be perfectly honest with you, American Revert, I am up to learning what you believe (even though I probably won’t agree with it), and I still find your posts very difficult to understand sometimes.

Anyway, thank you for your reply to my post. I realize this is not the reply you want, but I must tell you that Christianity confirms that God is one (as in the Nicene Creed, which begins “I believe in One God”), and that none compare to Him (who else was ever fully God and fully man? Who else could claim “I and the Father are One”? No one, or at least no one who could substantiate their claim as Jesus did). So, on these two points, Christianity and Islam are actually in agreement, though you understandably will not agree that we are in agreement.

As to the issue of whether or not God has a Son, we believe He does, and you do not. Okay. Christianity uses that term in a different way than Islam understands it (as is evidenced by many posts on this forum), but this does not diminish or negate our claim any more than it validates yours. To understand how God has a Son, you would need to accept Christian theology, which you obviously will not since you are a Muslim. Again, I have no problem with this, since God has granted you the gift of free will, even to the point of allowing you to reject Him. I can accept religious differences, and this is one issue where we have reached an impasse and cannot continue further. So I will consider this portion of the discussion over unless you have some specific questions and are willing to listen to the answers and accept them as the Christian view, in the same way that I can accept that Islam believes certain things about God, even when I don’t believe them myself.

Your reply to the other part of my post is very interesting to me. You highlighted and underlined a portion “who can dare contradict God? Anyone dare to?” I absolutely agree! This is why it makes little sense to me: I don’t understand why God would invite us to do that which we are not to do. God does not invite us to sin or to doubt. God does not invite us to arrogance or hubris. Satan does these things, not God.

You know, a friend of mine who has a degree in near eastern history once told me something very interesting. He quoted some Byzantine leader whose name I can’t possibly remember (this was years ago), who said something to the effect of “the Mohammedeans ascribe to God everything, be it good or bad”. Reading your post reminded me of that quote. I think he is right, whoever he was.

 

[TaliaHudspeth]

Here’s my two cents…

I’ve always found that there are 2 ways of thinking.

1. You either believe Jesus existed
2. You believe Jesus never existed

If you believe Jesus existed, IMO you have to believe everything that Christians say about him… because if you don’t, there’s no way to reconcile what he said with him being anything other than a lunatic. How does a Prophet say “Before Abraham was, I AM” - John 8:58 or “I and the Father are one” - John 10:30 - quotes which reveal that Jesus is God taking on our humanity.

No other prophet that I am aware of (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah, etc.) ever claimed to be one with God. Messengers of God, yes, but one with God - no

So how can anyone claim that they “believe the teachings of Jesus” yet do not believe in his divinity and place in the Holy Trinity? Have you read the teachings of Jesus? If so there would be no way to hold both beliefs. He was either here, and was who he said he was, or he wasn’t, because there is no inbetween (reminds me of the passage of scripture that says “So because you are lukewarm - neither hot nor cold - I spit you out”)

Am I wrong in this position? I truly have never understood the “well Jesus was a good person/prophet/holy man” but not God or our Redeemer logic. If he wasn’t, he was a stark raving lunatic, because all throughout his teachings, that’s what he claims to be, both by his deeds and by his words.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Talia – In fact, your post represents a popular but totally insensible argument.

Just because a person believes that Jesus existed does not mean he must also believe that everything ever said about him is true. There is no reason a person can’t believe Jesus existed but yet disbelieve in some of the things which Christians claim about him.

It doesn’t make Jesus a “stark raving lunatic” to use your words, either.

In fact, Muslims believe that

(a) Jesus existed
(b) Jesus was born of a virgin mother, Mary
(c) Jesus was a messenger sent by God
(d) Jesus taught what God commanded him to teach

However, there is just no reason to believe that everyone who spoke about Jesus after him only spoke the truth.

So the Liar/Lunatic/Lord argument is in fact very weak, when Jesus can be seen as a perfectly sane, perfectly honest human being who never claimed Lordship, though it was claimed for him by those after him.

 

[TaliaHudspeth]

However, there is just no reason to believe that everyone who spoke about Jesus after him only spoke the truth.

So the Liar/Lunatic/Lord argument is in fact very weak, when Jesus can be seen as a perfectly sane, perfectly honest human being who never claimed Lordship, though it was claimed for him by those after him.

Help me understand then, if Jesus only spoke the truth, and I just quoted to you words that came out of his mouth where he claimed Lordship how your argument stands up.

Let me provide to you the entirety of John 8:58

“You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”

This is a direct echo of Exodus 3:14 (below)

Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’

So… Jesus is claiming to be I AM… God. I can’t make it any more clear for you than that. The Jews tried to stone him after this statement, meaning they recognized he was claiming Lordship in this moment.

So… is Jesus a liar or is your logic flawed?

 

[Sister_Amy]

On the question of Muslims limiting God–that simple isn’t happening here.

When God says He is “One,” let’s just accept that first of all.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

2 Samuel 7:22 How great you are, O Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears. (See also 1 Chronicles 17:20)

Mark 12:28-29 Jesus is asked, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, "is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

Qur’an 2:163 And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

So is anyone “limiting” God by saying He is One? Isn’t that what He has taught us in the first place, from the very beginning?

For sure you can’t mean that Muslims are limiting God when Muslims consider Him to be Eternal, and never begotten. What is the limit?

The limit is calling him human, flawed, begotten, and mortal. The limit is by saying that the Creator exists inside the creation, that a human being could be God, when a human being has no more power than you or I. So who is stripping the Almighty of His power? Limiting Him? Except for those who say He is human?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Help me understand then, if Jesus only spoke the truth, and I just quoted to you words that came out of his mouth where he claimed Lordship how your argument stands up.

Honestly, my argument is so simple, that if you don’t understand it it means that either truth is being concealed from you, or you aren’t reading.

You cannot quote me the words of Jesus, you don’t have them in your hands. That is my argument.

 

[TaliaHudspeth]

When God says He is “One,” let’s just accept that first of all.

I most certainly accept that God is one. I also accept that after the fall of man, God put into action a plan to redeem humankind - one that is spoken of throughout the Old Testament and fulfilled in the person of Jesus the Christ.

When you say that God could not or would not enter into Creation, that is limiting God. From the moment of the fall in Genesis, God has a plan to redeem us - In Genesis 3:15 God reveals that Satan will be struck down by Jesus - “he will crush your head, and you will strike at his heel.” The prophesies continue on throughout the entire Old Testament, revealing God’s plan to take on our humanity and become the perfect sacrifice to reunite us with God. Have you ever read the book of Isaiah?

Since you won’t accept my Bible as an authentic book, and I don’t believe your koran is authentic in any way, we will not be able to have a productive dialogue on this topic, I fear.

About me being ignorant of the truth, I will respond by borrowing from Fr. John Corapi - The truth is not something. The truth is somebody, and his name is Jesus Christ.

 

[TaliaHudspeth]

I don’t understand how you can accept the portions of the Bible that you feel support Islam, then reject all other parts of it. Is there a guide somewhere showing which parts of my Bible are “corrupt” and which aren’t? And proving why/how these pieces were corrupted and others weren’t?

Or is it a whim on the part of Muhammad, or whoever is in charge these days?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I don’t understand how you can accept the portions of the Bible that you feel support Islam, then reject all other parts of it.

Why not? To me, this makes perfect sense.

Is there a guide somewhere showing which parts of my Bible are “corrupt” and which aren’t?

Of course, there is a “guide” and it’s the Qur’an. If it refutes something in the Bible, then the Bible is wrong. If it confirms something in the Bible, then that part of the Bible is correct. But if the Qur’an has no statement on it, then we just don’t know if it’s true or not.

And proving why/how these pieces were corrupted and others weren’t?

Why? Do you have proof that they weren’t corrupted or something? hehehe

Or is it a whim on the part of Muhammad, or whoever is in charge these days?

Direct revelation from on high. You can probably purchase a copy at your local Barnes & Noble.

 

[Sister_Amy]

When you say that God could not or would not enter into Creation, that is limiting God.

Nope. When you say the Creator is part of the Creation, tis you who are limiting God.

Have you ever read the book of Isaiah?

Yes.

Since you won’t accept my Bible as an authentic book, and I don’t believe your koran is authentic in any way, we will not be able to have a productive dialogue on this topic, I fear.

Jolly good.

About me being ignorant of the truth, I will respond by borrowing from Fr. John Corapi - The truth is not something. The truth is somebody, and his name is Jesus Christ.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[TaliaHudspeth]

Generally… we have the 2000 years of the Church’s history, and more specifically the writings of the Early Church Fathers (who quoted the Bible like MAD) to show us that the Bible has contained the same information since the death of Jesus.

I am just curious how/why it is thought that this broke down, when we have writings going back to people who learned at the feet of the apostles (since the apostles themselves authored many portions of the New Testament) showing that our belief has remained consistent.

Where, in light of the evidence of the Early Church Fathers, who were teaching the same things as the apostles and Jesus did in the New Testament, did it break down, and people “started attributing things to Jesus”?

This is the last I’ll say on the “limiting God” thing, but it is a measure of God’s infinite capabilities that He would insert Himself into humanity - it shows that he has the ability, **even as **Creator to become a part of creation. The more important feature is that it shows God’s infinite love for us - that He would become like us in order to bring us back to Him.

I’m sorry that I’ve taken this thread off-topic - my original postions devolved into different issues than I anticipated

 

[Booklover]

Why not? To me, this makes perfect sense.

Makes sense only if you believe in the Quran.

Of course, there is a “guide” and it’s the Qur’an.

That’s your opinion!

If it refutes something in the Bible, then the Bible is wrong. If it confirms something in the Bible, then that part of the Bible is correct. But if the Qur’an has no statement on it, then we just don’t know if it’s true or not.

If something in the Quran agrees with the Bible, it’s okay, if it disagrees with the Bible, it’s corrupted and fabricated.

]Why? Do you have proof that they weren’t corrupted or something? hehehe

Where’s the proof of the corrupted verses??

Direct revelation from on high. You can probably purchase a copy at your local Barnes & Noble.

Your opinion based on “Muhammad said so”!

Vickie