Greatest Threat to the Church

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deogratias:
There was such a poll but it never said which Catholics were included - there are many Catholics who never go to Mass, there are some who go at Easter and Christmas and then there are the faithful who go weekly and then there are the Paulists (grin)

If this poll was among the faithful only, then there would be grave concern indeed.
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I agree. When you look at the statistics the number of Catholics who do not attend weekly Mass is about the same I think as the number who allegedly don’t believe in the the Real Presence.

In my parish we have above average Mass attendance by those registered as members of the parish, in excess of 40%. Pretty pathetic, and that is above average. When you factor in those who were raised Catholic and don’t practive at all it is easy to see how the survey could show a high number. Which is your point.

What is a Paulist?

Charliemac
 
What is a Paulist?

The Paulist Center in Boston is where John Kerry goes to Mass - so it was my little attempt at political humor I guess. It is alledged to be very liberal
 
I voted secularism in the poll. When I did that it was the vestern world (USA + Europe) that was in my thoughts. As far as I know, catholisism grows in Africa and Asia.

I think that it’s very important to never stop educating ourselves in faith. We must be aware of how easy it is to loose sight of Heaven in this secular world.

And we must pray, and pray and pray!

G.G.
 
Perhaps Bishop Sheen was prophetic in this statement he made -
“Wild and gloomy times? Small wonder that people are shaken and confused! The signs are everywhere. The signs of our times point to a struggle between
absolutes. We may expect the future to be a time of trials and catastrophes for two reasons: firstly, to stop disintegration…Revolution, disintegration, chaos
must be reminders that our thinking has been wrong, our dreams have been unholy. The second reason why a crisis must come is in order to prevent a false
identification of the Church and the World. Our Lord intended that His followers should be different in spirit from those who were not His followers…But,
though this is the divine intent, it is unfortunately true that the line of demarcation is often blotted out. Mediocrity and compromise characterize the
lives of many Christians…There is no longer the conflict which is supposed to characterize us. **We are influencing the world less than the world is influencing **us. Since the amalgamation of the Christian and pagan spirit has set in, the gold is married with an alloy, the entirety must be thrown into the furnace so
that the dross may be burnt away.”
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(emphasis mine)
 
To Prometheum x - You asked what a “cenacle” is.

French cénacle, from Old French cenacle, the room where the Last Supper took place, from Latin chttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifculum, dining room, garret, from chttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifna, meal; see sker-1 in Indo-European Roots. Sense 2 Middle English, from Old French, from Latin chttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifculum.]

Before the decent of the Holy Spirit the Blessed Mother Mary and the Apostles met in the upper room. This was the first prayer cenacle and actually the 1st Novena. They met together in prayer until the Holy Spirit came.

I belong to the Marian Movement of Priest Prayer Cenacle and we pray and follow the messages of Father Gobbi. We are a lay Apostolate group. Our job is to pray for the Holy Father and Our Lady’s Priest sons who are in union with the Holy Father. If you are interested in more information about the cenacles and their format you can go to mmp-usa.net.

There is nothing to fear!

God Bless!

Blessed Virgin Mary, My Mother, lead us to your son!
 
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dredgtone:
Leave me out of this I’m talking about your own ignorance. I simply heard you say something stupid and I called you on it. Now please explain why homosexuals are the biggest enemy to the church.
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*Your rudeness is not appreciated and has left quite an insight as to the kind of “character” you are. . .:tsktsk: *

The gay movement counter-acts all that the Church is about.

The Church is about–LIFE. Giving life, bringing forth life, affirming life, the continuation of mankind and it’s dignity.

It is known that homosexuals have interupted Masses in progress to push their “culture of death” agenda, specifically to the Catholic Church who has been a voice against that lifestyle. If they weren’t a threat to the Church, then why is the Catholic Church targeted by them and why would they be so rude to interrupt our time of worshiping God? That is the ultimate rudeness, no matter what anyone believes as far as God and such…to interrupt people genuinely worshipping their God is more than just pushing an agenda. It is forcing it down our throats at all costs and using all means.

Homosexual acts are selfish acts that bear no fruit, in other words, no life-bearing gifts will ever come from the homosexual lifestyle. If more and more are turning to living the homosexual lifestyle, and other “culture of death” choices such as abortion, remarriages, gay marriages, etc. (the culture of death list goes on and on) we will witness a deterioration and destruction of society. [Witness the Roman Empire].

This will affect the Church and her people. . .but the good news is that the Catholic Church will never die. “The gates of hell will never prevail against the Church.” You will someday…see…this truth…at the end of time because God will show you.:yup:

God created them “male and female” for a reason.

I think homosexuality would be good to discuss, but on another thread. Watch for that in this forum.
 
To the folks who responded with the status of Father Gruner have evidently bought the lies spread about him by some bureaucrats in the Vatican and/or by suggesting that God’s command through Mary @ Fatima had already been obeyed do not know the truth. What they did was consecrate the World to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which as noted earlier was not the command.
 
I think lukewarm, poorly catechized catholics (notice the small “c”) are a threat to the Church.
 
I agree with yinekka that the greatest threat to the Catholic church are the people who have some sort of authority in the church. I think the threat in particular are some[minority] catholic primary/high school teachers that don’t know much about the catholic faith.

From my experience at a Catholic high school I could honestly say that the there are some teachers that are not faithful to the church and may at times make fun of the church and even make fun of the pope.

I can remember 1 particular teacher that I had, that taught Catholic Studies whose teachings contradicts and misinform the teachings of the Catholic church. It was 2 years later, when I became friends with a seminarian that I found out that alot of the stuff that this teacher in high school taught me was not entirely accurate. I was “lucky” enough to find the true faith therefore returning to the church, unfortunatley how many others out there have been miss informed and fallen out of the Catholic faith.

In my opinion, anyone who is in position of teaching the catholic should be very careful that the info is accurate as possible, seperate personnal opinions from the facts. and if you don’t know something then admit it and come back when you do have the correct answer. To give the wrong answer can drive a person from the catholic faith and into another.
 
I voted “other”

The greatest threat to the Church is Satan. Always was, always will be (until Christ comes again in Glory)
 
An answer that is all encompassing and true. Give the man a hand and the answer is Satan.
 
I voted secularism because it encompassed a wide range of different thinkings. The secular way is the popular, more fun and more traversed way, but where does it lead? The road that leads to life is small and straight but very few finds it.

What I see here is that many in the church fall prey to secularism. This is not limited to flock, leaders are leading them! When the shepherd is struck down, the sheeps dispersed, but this time, the shepherd falls into a ditch, and all the sheeps followed.

What is secularism? To me it is redefining sin… what once is sin is no longer sin. It’s ok to live together before marriage. It is ok to have abortions. We don’t have to be obedience to no one. Lets put God out of the picture, His ways are too hard to follow. Lets make it easier! The list goes on and on…

Warmest regards,
Benjamin
 
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Peg:
MattG, I agree with Marie. Fr. Grunner is very divisive. There is a rumor about the new construction at Fatima which is trying to destroy support for the building. I pray for Fr. Grunner who acts like he is more Catholic than the Pope.
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Your close seems to be more ad hominem, but as your personal opinion, it is what it is.
The author of the book Fatima Priest with Father Nicholas Gruner wonders where the promised benefits to mankind are that will follow the consecration as ordained by God, transmitted by Our Lady of Fatima,i.e. world peace and conversion of Russia. The Blessed Virgin Mary was correct about the end of WW I and the beginning of WW II, etc.
I don’t see a world at peace. Do you?
Russia is not converted.
Is it?
 
the bigest threat are the people who teach falsely about mary the saints and dont use the bible as their prime sourse
 
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kpnuts2k:
the bigest threat are the people who teach falsely about mary the saints and dont use the bible as their prime sourse
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The biggest threat is when Satan makes people think that they could interpret the Bible for themselves.
 
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Tanais:
What do you think is the greatest threat to our Church in the modern world? I was just curious because I just read an editorial from a priest who says its Secularism. I just wanted to hear other opinions.
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Apostasy.

The lukewarm.

The crunchy-Catholic-on-the outside-squishy-tepid-man-within who warm the benches on the occasional Sunday when the Packers-Lakers-Blades-Padres aren’t playing.
 
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AmandaPS:
The biggest threat is when Satan makes people think that they could interpret the Bible for themselves.
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Amen!

I do a lot of face-to-face apologetics with evangelicals, and I am amazed at the distinct lack of ethics in their interpretations. Just yesterday, I had a loooonnnggg conversation with an evangelical Lutheran who misread Luke 9:62 ("But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”) as meaning that a man, once saved, should not look back on his old life of sin, but look forward in the grace of God.

Wrong! In context, Jesus was being approached by men who wanted to follow him, but a) did not understand how difficult the jounrey was, and b) were being called or delayed by earthly matters. What Jesus is actually saying here is that the Way is hard, and part-time followers need not apply. See, for example, Revelation 3:16 (“So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.”). What Luke was speaking of was dropping everything and following Christ, 100%. With Jesus, it’s all or nothing.

And this lay Lutheran gave the “sermon” at his church on Sunday, thereby misleading the entire congregation.
 
The Barrister:
Amen!

I do a lot of face-to-face apologetics with evangelicals, and I am amazed at the distinct lack of ethics in their interpretations. Just yesterday, I had a loooonnnggg conversation with an evangelical Lutheran who misread Luke 9:62 ("But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”) as meaning that a man, once saved, should not look back on his old life of sin, but look forward in the grace of God.

Wrong! In context, Jesus was being approached by men who wanted to follow him, but a) did not understand how difficult the jounrey was, and b) were being called or delayed by earthly matters. What Jesus is actually saying here is that the Way is hard, and part-time followers need not apply. See, for example, Revelation 3:16 (“So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.”). What Luke was speaking of was dropping everything and following Christ, 100%. With Jesus, it’s all or nothing.

And this lay Lutheran gave the “sermon” at his church on Sunday, thereby misleading the entire congregation.
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I think Acts 8:30-31 bests sums our need for a teacher instead of private interpretation.
Act 8:30 And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?
Act 8:31 Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
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The Barrister:
Just yesterday, I had a loooonnnggg conversation with an evangelical Lutheran who misread Luke 9:62 ("But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”) as meaning that a man, once saved, should not look back on his old life of sin, but look forward in the grace of God.
Wrong! In context…
And this lay Lutheran gave the “sermon” at his church on Sunday, thereby misleading the entire congregation.
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I would say that The Barrister’s interpretation is far superior, being grounded on context and the big picture of Jesus’ teaching, but this is not the same thing as slamming down another interpretation as competely wrong.

The idea that a Christian should refrain from looking back on his/her past life of sin is not alien to Catholicism, or even to the Bible (remember Paul talking about the old things have passed away?) If someone wants to read that meaning from this verse as well, there is nothing wrong with that.
The only time an interpretation should definitively be called wrong is if it leads to a belief that is contrary to the Faith. I did not hear the Lutheran sermon, but was there anything in it, other than shoddy exegesis, that seemed to be unchristian?
 
The greatest threat to the church is that its leaders are not acting as examples of Jesus’ teachings.

Whether one believes that improper behaviour at the highest levels of the hierarchy is somehow shielded from permanently damaging the church by the holy spirit, the fact remains that our leaders, here in the US and in Rome, have deceived us and have allowed our church to be scandalized by their lack of action regarding moral issues of the clearest incongruency with the teachings of Jesus.

Contemplation of the issues is no excuse either, if we believe in the ministry of discernment and that the majesterium and the pontiff receive guidance from the Holy Spirit, it is inconceivable that the Holy Spirit is pleased with the urgency shown by their response.

Peace
 
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