Greatest Threat to the Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tanais
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The spineless and apathetic clergy AND laity… If you’re a Catholic the obligation to not only know the faith is imposed upon you, but also the responsibility to spread the faith rests upon your shoulders. Stand up and be counted among the followers of the Christ…he admonishes us to do so.
 
Panis Angelicas said:
DISSENT (pride),
followed byIgnorance.

Having to choose one in the poll, I selected modernism, “the synthesis of all heresies” (Pope St. Pius X).

I’d say this is the greatest danger to souls.
Pax Christi. <><
Click to expand...

I totally agree… and I believe the disobedience amongst the laity and the clergy in relation to Humanae Vitae was and is a major catalyst for disintegration of the Church. This disobedience has spawned an industry of dissent in the church in a ever-increasing range of other matters.
 
I voted secularism. But a good choice would also have been liberalism. That is definitely trying to take away the Church’s freedom in America.
 
Catholics not knowing or sharing their faith. (so, dissent, ignorance, laziness)
 
The greatest threat is modernism – this is an Enlightenment mode of cognition; secularisation is a function of this. Those who voted for secularisation voted, were they but aware of it, for a process which is a direct function of modernism. ‘Modernism’ as condemned by the great 19th century encyclicals is in fact a particular application, across a variety of intellectual disciplines, of that Kantian ethic of cognition, the cognition of the Enlightenment. Secularisation is premised upon this way of thinking. According to Gellner, modernism ‘extracts all demand, challenge and defiance from doctrine and its revelation’.p.2-3 ‘Postmodernism, Reason and Religion’

My response would be therefore to couch an answer not in terms of daily instances of this or that, failures here, failures there in respect of this or that encyclical or snippet of teaching judiciously dragged out to refute the wayward, the backslider; nor in terms of the laxity of various practices the pious development of which could not but lead to a more pleasing prospect: instead I would couch my response at a more academic level.

Of all the various ‘great’ religions in the world, the ones that have succumbed in varying degrees to the onslaught of modernity are Christianity, Hinduism & Buddhism. Markedly resistant to this impact today stands Islam alone but since it is not with Islam that this thread is concerned then I should restrict my comments to modernism and secularisation in the Christian fold – though I wonder (very tentatively) to what extent the alleged success of Islam might very well be its adherence to that kind of fundamentalism and uncompromising commitment which Christianity has generally lost. Christianity is alive and living but within the bracing airs, rough breezes and cruel gales of secular, liberal and civil polities. What pray then is the quality of this life? Is Catholicsm more resistant than other Christian persuasions?

DEM
 
Are the writings of Swedenborg a threat to your church. I am a member of the New Church. Don’t worry I won’t be hurt by your answers. What say you?

Harry
 
How is this for secularism, last weekend our lay Pastoral Associate gives a “homily” (quotations used as only a Priest or Deacon can homilize) on getting back to basic values in our society, such as avoiding sex “outside of a committed relationship.”

A committed relationship??? :confused: Unbelievable…
 
40.png
tcaseyrochester:
How is this for secularism, last weekend our lay Pastoral Associate gives a “homily” (quotations used as only a Priest or Deacon can homilize) on getting back to basic values in our society, such as avoiding sex “outside of a committed relationship.”

A committed relationship??? :confused: Unbelievable…
Click to expand...
As I read this, I was wondering if this took place during a Mass. If so, how could I be surprised at the wanderings of a lay Pastoral Associate when in fact this person should not be delivering a homily at all. These types of actions reflect a shallowness of spirituality and faith development. It always amuses me in a cynical manner that those who would stray into liberal practices are the first to condemn Cardinal Ratzinger for being too rigid. Yet, Cardinal Ratzinger speaks in terms of the laity’s right to receive the sacraments and liturgy. Are those who proclaim a progressive agenda more inflexible and less tolerant than the ones they rant about?
 
Why do people think that the church is threatened by secular society?

Doesn’t the message of Jesus retain its universal truths despite the passage of time?

What the church needs to reflect upon is those things that no longer are true because of new found knowledge and advancement.

I can not think of a teaching of Jesus that has “expired”. But we know that there are portions of the church’s teachings that rely upon outdated material(i.e. Lev.) or writings intended for certain population groups that no longer are applicable to everyone(some writings of Paul).

The church changed its manner to more closely mimic the royalty of the middle ages, it wouldn’t be unChristlike to change its manner to more closley

Peace
 
The greatest threat to the Church is poor catechisis and converts who are not properly taught.

Many who are “raised” Catholic do not know what the Church Teaches and many converts carry over their protestant mindset when they convert.

Today I heard on Catholic Answers live a protestent convert to Catholicism describing Confirmation as a Catholic bar mitzvah. This can not be correct as Eastern Catholic Chrismate (or Confirm) infants.
 
40.png
SpiritualSon:
What do you mean by Original Church?

Harry
Click to expand...
“You are Peter, and on this rock, I will build by church. And the gates of Hell will not overcome it.”

The Catholic Church
 
40.png
ByzCath:
Today I heard on Catholic Answers live a protestent convert to Catholicism describing Confirmation as a Catholic bar mitzvah. This can not be correct as Eastern Catholic Chrismate (or Confirm) infants.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say that this is an example so much of protestant mindset as much as it is an analogy that limps. It is certainly apropriate for the Latin rite where part of the Confirmation package is that the confirmed is viewed by the Church as being an adult who is taking on primary responsibility for their soul.

In computer terms, once you try and run it out of the proper environment, its gonna lag you for like 24 seconds 😉
 
I replied “other” - I think the “spirit of disobedience” is the greatest threat to the Church.

Disobedience applies to both the liberal and traditionalist wings of the Church. It also applies to the garden-variety Catholic who thinks they know better than the Church with respect to matters of faith and morals.

It applies to the cardinals, bishops, priests and religious who would rather follow their own brand of theology and liturgy, rather than adhere to genuine Catholic doctrine and liturgical norms.

(Now, I think the catechetical vacuum of the last 40 years did much to nurture the seed of disobedience… but that’s a post for another day.)
 
40.png
Timothy:
I wouldn’t say that this is an example so much of protestant mindset as much as it is an analogy that limps. It is certainly apropriate for the Latin rite where part of the Confirmation package is that the confirmed is viewed by the Church as being an adult who is taking on primary responsibility for their soul.

In computer terms, once you try and run it out of the proper environment, its gonna lag you for like 24 seconds 😉
Click to expand...
But this is not correct, Confirmation has nothing to do with entering adulthood. Confirmation is not a “rite of passage”.

I think we need to explore what Confirmation is. Maybe I will start another thread.
 
The greatest threat to the Church is the liberals preaching opposite or anti Christ’s teachings. They do this to gain popularity. Are we in a popularity contest or are we commanded to teach the Word of our Lord Jesus Christ. If Jesus wanted to win a popularity contest he would have stuck with his Palm Sunday crowd rather than give it up for his dwidled down to Mary and a few others crowd at His crucifixtion.

Here is an example of what I mean. I have a web site titled Warning! Jesus Does Not Forgive All. geocities.com/athens/forum/3325/unforgiven.html
It simply goes from one end of the New Testament to the other and quotes Jesus everytime He tells us He or the Father will not forgive, cast into eternal damnation or burn someone in the fires of Gehenna. A woman e-mailed me and told me this was not Jesus. “Jesus forgives all”, she told me. Remember none of my words, only Jesus and bible author’s words from the bible are in the body of the web site. So where did she get her false “Jesus” who is completly opposite from what our Lord Jesus teaches in the Gospel?

Church leaders have got to fight this anti-christ, which the world and even many priests at the pulpit, have created. Start teaching the way Christ taught. Don’t worry about loosing parishoners; worry about teaching the true words of Jesus.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
The greatest threat to the Church is from the modernist heirarchy, including Pope John Paul II. The Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope have done more to harm the Church since Vatican II than secularism or any other ‘outside’ threat ever could.

The modernist movement will ultimately fail, and I base that on the words of Mary at Fatima, that in the end, Her Immaculate Heart will triumph. Also, Jesus promised to be with the Church until the end of time, and that the gates of hell would NOT prevail against Holy Mother Church.

The failure of the heirarchy to take action against a wide range of abuses, and even outright heresies, has scandalized the Church and demoralized Catholics in large numbers. Confusion is allowed to reign, and no effective action to correct the situation has been taken. Vocations will continue to fall until there is a major ‘housecleaning’ and restoration of the moral authority of the Bishops and Cardinals. That is not likely without a return to orthodox Catholic teaching, and it will take a strong Pope to pull it off.
 
Peace be with you,
Sorry to interject, but Gruner the whiner is no friend of the church nor Our Lady nor is he a spokesman for Fatima. The 20 year scenario sounds good but the fact of the matter is he is out of union with the church, has been condemned by the church and in this case Sister Lucia herself. The consecration was done, is done and Gruner is the devils agent. There are numerous threads on this subject with supporting evidence so I shall not repost, but use the search tool and you will find the answers.

I have been devoted to Fatima since the beginning, I am no young whipper snapper and I am older than said apostate Gruner. I know the devil and his agents are now, more than ever trying to destroy it. Gruner is not Gods agent, he was sanctioned for disobedience. He is NOT to be believed. Be aware the consecration has been done and Sister Lucia has attested to the fact. Satans goal is to deceive. Gruners goal is to confuse and he is Satan’s agent knowingly or through his own pride and stupidity, but Satans agent none the less. I believe Sister Lucy is the more reliable and she says the consecration was done.She herself has repudiated Gruner.

These are very strong words…a little too strong. Fr. Gruner is not in disunity with the Church, is not condemned by the Church…these are false allegations. Please provide your proof with these words as these are quite slanderous. It saddens me to read such material as coming from someone who has been around…

Again calling Gruner a devils agent is more than slanderous…it is not acceptable. An apology would be in order here. If you are not a young whipper-snapper (your words), than I would expect better judgment and protocol here. This kind of language is expected out of young people or anti-Catholics, not a faithful Roman Catholic of mature years. Do you really know what a devils’ agent is? I do and Gruner does not fit that bill.

My argument here is not about Gruner nor his ministry but on your questionable ‘discernement’ of words and judgment.

And maybe now, we can continue on reading what is the greatest threat to the Catholic Church…

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top