Greatest Threat to the Church

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Wow. Usually I am in a minority on these polls but this time I was with the large majority.
First, there is no threat that can put the Church out of business. We have Christ’s own word on that. But there are lots of threats to Catholics as individuals.
I think the thing that is the greatest threat to Catholics is the lamentable tendency to put things ahead of people. All the other evils in society seem to flow from this–abortion, avarice and so much more.
 
scaxter said:
*Your rudeness is not appreciated and has left quite an insight as to the kind of “character” you are. . .:tsktsk: *

The gay movement counter-acts all that the Church is about.

The Church is about–LIFE. Giving life, bringing forth life, affirming life, the continuation of mankind and it’s dignity.

It is known that homosexuals have interupted Masses in progress to push their “culture of death” agenda, specifically to the Catholic Church who has been a voice against that lifestyle. If they weren’t a threat to the Church, then why is the Catholic Church targeted by them and why would they be so rude to interrupt our time of worshiping God? That is the ultimate rudeness, no matter what anyone believes as far as God and such…to interrupt people genuinely worshipping their God is more than just pushing an agenda. It is forcing it down our throats at all costs and using all means.

Homosexual acts are selfish acts that bear no fruit, in other words, no life-bearing gifts will ever come from the homosexual lifestyle. If more and more are turning to living the homosexual lifestyle, and other “culture of death” choices such as abortion, remarriages, gay marriages, etc. (the culture of death list goes on and on) we will witness a deterioration and destruction of society. [Witness the Roman Empire].

This will affect the Church and her people. . .but the good news is that the Catholic Church will never die. “The gates of hell will never prevail against the Church.” You will someday…see…this truth…at the end of time because God will show you.:yup:

God created them “male and female” for a reason.

I think homosexuality would be good to discuss, but on another thread. Watch for that in this forum.
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Chewing gum is a selfish act that bears no fruit.
 
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PilgrimJWT:
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First, there is no threat that can put the Church out of business. We have Christ’s own word on that. .
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Pilgrim, you may have hit on a point there, the church leadership acts as if it can’t be put out of business. And it thinks like a monopoly that has no need to better serve its customers because of the supposed security it has regarding its existence.

As for Jesus’ words, at Jesus’ time the church was the congregation and perhaps He was really saying that the flock would never be prevailed upon by the gates of hades.

Peace
 
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CathAnFanatical:
I third this.

If anything can hurt the Church the most it would be the lazy Bishops and Priests that are out there. It would be the Bishops that allow rainbow sash wearing people recieve communion, it would be the Bishops and Priests that allow pro-death people to recieve the Body and Blood of Christ.

Why alot of the Bishops and Priests are too scared to stand up for Christ is beyond me. They need alot of prayers, and a swift kick in the butt to get back in gear.
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:yup: This is so true. I am a bit less disgusted after having just read Msgr. Michael Wrenn’s "Catechisms and Controversies, published in 1991. He describes the bishops’ efforts in the 1980s that were made then to stem the tide of catechetical insanity and the attempts to derail the publication of the Catechism. From the vantage point of 2004, it would seem that the bishops tried. This is no excuse for their spinelessness today, however. Even now, they coddle those pockets of dissent that remain, witness the lay speakers at the Great Scandal Conference of June, 2002, in Dallas. :mad:

It is often said that we must be patient till the “spirit of Vatican II” cult members die off, and that the Church, of course, has time. For those of us with children and/or grandchildren this is precious little comfort. :gopray2:

Pray always,

Anna
 
I believe the biggest threat to the church is “tolerance.” Soon our priests will be dragged from the alter in handcuffs in the name of “tolerance.” Any discussion of sin will be banned as “hate language.” Bibles will be considered “hate literature.”

African American Christian Communities all over the country are stepping up to the plate to defend traditional marriage and are vehemently rejecting the comparison of the African American civil rights struggle with the efforts of homosexual activities to legalize same-sex marriages. Let’s pray for them.

Hail Mary, full of grace…

Peace in Christ +
 
Moral relativism is pervasive throughout mankind, and runs rampant in secular society, and the Church is not immune to the individuals influenced by it. Since self-indulgence and self-centeredness is a common human weakness, the vast majority of individuals usually succumb to going down the path of least resistance.

If a person is strong in a couple of areas of moral discipline and faithfullness to Church teachings, practices and disciplines, due to God’s grace given to him/her to be strong in those areas, they tend to lean on those attributes as being the most important for all to focus on to be morally correct in responding appropriately in our lives, but tend to ignore falling short in other areas of behavior that require more effort from them to take the moral high ground or respond faithfully to Church teachings by how they live the Faith in their lives.

The problem in the Church is that the majority of people are not inclined to conform themselves completely through mortification of their illicit tendencies, and they end up picking and choosing what they will be obedient to that comes easy for them to accept, but reject those areas that are difficult for them to faithfully observe.

To foster an enviroment that will be favorable for them to escape correction or condemnation of their actions or false ideas, many wrest control by gravitating to areas of influence within the Church as DREs, Directors of Faith Formation, Sacrestans, Liturgists etc…and attempt (succesfully in most cases-which is why we have so many problems within the Church) to implement their agendas and practices on those who are not well informed about Church teachings in matters of Faith and morals, disciplines and practices, who, because of their lack of knowledge, follow like sheep and latch onto these erroneous beliefs, which few individuals in these times have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to and correct because of the risk of being accused of being too “rigid”, “old fashioned”, “out of touch”, “pre-Vatican II”, or any of the other numerous ways of pressuring those with orthodox beliefs into forcing them to shut-up and sit on the sideline.

What exacerbates the situation is the existence of individuals in the hierarchy of the Church who have the same tendencies. Those tendencies influence how they respond to individuals with concerns, and explains the lack of response, or negative responses, to those individuals who appeal for admonishment of illicit actions and ideas that are being promoted and acted upon within the Church.

Don
 
Moral relativism is pervasive throughout mankind, and runs rampant in secular society, and the Church is not immune to the individuals influenced by it. Since self-indulgence and self-centeredness is a common human weakness, the vast majority of individuals usually succumb to going down the path of least resistance.

If a person is strong in a couple of areas of moral discipline and faithfullness to Church teachings, practices and disciplines, due to God’s grace given to him/her to be strong in those areas, they tend to lean on those attributes as being the most important for all to focus on to be morally correct in responding appropriately in our lives, but tend to ignore falling short in other areas of behavior that require more effort from them to take the moral high ground or respond faithfully to Church teachings by how they live the Faith in their lives.

The problem in the Church is that the majority of people are not inclined to conform themselves completely through mortification of their illicit tendencies, and they end up picking and choosing what they will be obedient to that comes easy for them to accept, but reject those areas that are difficult for them to faithfully observe.

To foster an enviroment that will be favorable for them to escape correction or condemnation of their actions or false ideas, many wrest control by gravitating to areas of influence within the Church as DREs, Directors of Faith Formation, Sacrestans, Liturgists etc…and attempt (succesfully in most cases-which is why we have so many problems within the Church) to implement their agendas and practices on those who are not well informed about Church teachings in matters of Faith and morals, disciplines and practices, who, because of their lack of knowledge, follow like sheep and latch onto these erroneous beliefs, which few individuals in these times have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to and correct because of the risk of being accused of being too “rigid”, “old fashioned”, “out of touch”, “pre-Vatican II”, or any of the other numerous ways of pressuring those with orthodox beliefs into forcing them to shut-up and sit on the sideline.

What exacerbates the situation is the existence of individuals in the hierarchy of the Church who have the same tendencies. Those tendencies influence how they respond to individuals with concerns, and explains the lack of response, or negative responses, to those individuals who appeal for admonishment of illicit actions and ideas that are being promoted and acted upon within the Church.

Don
 
There is no threat to the church from V1, V2 or Trent.

That stuff is basically about deciding how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The threat to the church comes from people not taking responsibility for their actions and inactions.

There is enough unChristlike behaviour going on from the “orthodox” side and there is plenty coming from the "liberal"side.

But instead of our church using the example of Jesus as the standard, it uses its own past performances as the standard. Unfortunately when the original standard is not used, performance that is just a little off from the most recent can result in huge deviations from the original over time.
 
Obviously, the Church is guarded by Christ, but one thing that will hinder her perfection and growth is loss of belief in the Real Presence. Nothing kills the faith of baptised Catholics like the loss of belief in the Real Presence.
 
Another threat is this belief that all good, well meaning people will be saved. It lessens Christ’s mercy by weakening his justice. You can’t have it both ways. Has anyone heard the story of the woman who goes to confession to Padre Pio, and whenshe enters the confessional, as if a mad man Padre Pio screams her out of the Church. Later when she went back to find out what she had done to deserve such a greeting, he informed her that as she spoke, he saw her children rotting in hell because of her loose parenting. Well intentions will go by the way side on Judgement day.
 
Orthodoxy is an adherence to, or at least the aknowledgement and acceptance of the need to adhere to the standards, correct beliefs and behavior.

All of us fail, Orthodox believers and Heterodox believers alike. (there is no liberalism or conservativism in Catholicism ~ you either believe in all the tenets of the Faith or you don’t ~ no middle or extreme left or right grounds) But, if one has the tendency to have orthodox beliefs, that person has the edge over the one who picks and chooses his own morality or decides for himself what correct actions are that are contrary to what the Church teaches, which is heterodoxy.

The higher standards that one accepts for himself as set by the Church, the higher he is from the base line when he deviates from the higher standard in comparison to the one who sets his own standards lower than what is set by the Church. The lower that one sets his standards than what the Church has set, the closer to the baseline he is when he deviates from his prefered lower standard compared to the one striving for the higher standard.

Most of us hover below an imaginary line that represents the standard of belief that the Church sets as something to strive for in order to acheive the saintly status we all are called to ultimately attain in our lives.

The one who has distain for the high Catholic standard for behavior and belief, rejects the level that the line representing it is set at, and sets their own standard, or line, at a lower level and will never strive for the higher level set by the Church. That is the Heterodox position.

The one who aknowledges and accepts the higher standard set by the Church, and takes the beliefs to heart, will have the tendency to strive for reaching it. That is the Orthodox positon.

Though, both will likely not ever consistantly stay exactly on the level they accept for themselves, the Orthodox believer, even with all his falling and getting back up, will still have the possiblity of reaching and maintaining a higher level of consistent actions and beliefs because of the fact of striving to attain the highest standard set by the Church, than the one that has set for themself a lower standard of actions and beliefs than that set by the Church .

So please don’t throw orthodox believing Catholics and obstinantly disobedient (liberal) Catholics in the same basket when placing blame on why the Church is having problems.

Don
 
Orthodoxy is an adherence to, or at least the aknowledgement and acceptance of the need to adhere to the standards, correct beliefs and behavior.

All of us fail, Orthodox believers and Heterodox believers alike. (there is no liberalism or conservativism in Catholicism ~ you either believe in all the tenets of the Faith or you don’t ~ no middle or extreme left or right grounds) But, if one has the tendency to have orthodox beliefs, that person has the edge over the one who picks and chooses his own morality or decides for himself what correct actions are that are contrary to what the Church teaches, which is heterodoxy.

The higher standards that one accepts for himself as set by the Church, the higher he is from the base line when he deviates from the higher standard in comparison to the one who sets his own standards lower than what is set by the Church. The lower that one sets his standards than what the Church has set, the closer to the baseline he is when he deviates from his prefered lower standard compared to the one striving for the higher standard.

Most of us hover below an imaginary line that represents the standard of belief that the Church sets as something to strive for in order to acheive the saintly status we all are called to ultimately attain in our lives.

The one who has distain for the high Catholic standard for behavior and belief, rejects the level that the line representing it is set at, and sets their own standard, or line, at a lower level and will never strive for the higher level set by the Church. That is the Heterodox position.

The one who aknowledges and accepts the higher standard set by the Church, and takes the beliefs to heart, will have the tendency to strive for reaching it. That is the Orthodox positon.

Though, both will likely not ever consistantly stay exactly on the level they accept for themselves, the Orthodox believer, even with all his falling and getting back up, will still have the possiblity of reaching and maintaining a higher level of consistent actions and beliefs because of the fact of striving to attain the highest standard set by the Church, than the one that has set for themself a lower standard of actions and beliefs than that set by the Church .

So please don’t throw orthodox believing Catholics and obstinantly disobedient (liberal) Catholics in the same basket when placing blame on why the Church is having problems.

Don
 
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ricatholic:
But instead of our church using the example of Jesus as the standard, it uses its own past performances as the standard. Unfortunately when the original standard is not used, performance that is just a little off from the most recent can result in huge deviations from the original over time.
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The original standard you cite as being Jesus set up the Church to maintain the standards He handed down to It and promised that It would be guided to all Truth by the Holy Spirit. After all nothing but the Church is stated in the bible as being the “Pillar and Foundation of Truth”. Christ is Truth and the Church is His body, which means it is Truth itself because the head is not separated from the body. The Body and the Head are One.

The erroneous past performances you elude to were not officially sanctioned Church teachings, but erroneous actions by individuals within the Church. The Standard is still represented by the Church and Its official teachings on Faith and Morals that have never changed are still as authoritative today as they have always been, and the Church’s authority to guide us in the areas of Faith and Morals, discipline and practices has never dwindled.

Don
 
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Ken:
Chewing gum is a selfish act that bears no fruit.
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Well then, you will have to stop chewing gum! 🤓 (ha, ha) jk

You can’t compare apples to oranges.

Remember, there are two kinds of fruitful-life: physical & spiritual. Both are to be life-affirming (and selfless, loving acts) and are to be lived according to God’s laws which lead us to heaven. Active homosexuality is selfish and is not physically nor spiritually life affirming, and in fact it is a mortal sin. Mortal means deadly because it kills the life of grace within the soul. You cannot get into heaven without sanctifying grace. Grace is LIFE, Christ’s life within us. Sins of impurity, including homosexuality, are sins against the 6th commandment.
 
Failure of Catholics to receive the sacrament of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist on a consistent basis. Without sanctifying grace, we do not experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We are easily led away from the TRUE MAGISTERIUM TEACHINGS, and into areas of dissent encouraged by secularism.
Jim
 
DISSENT (pride),
followed byIgnorance.

Having to choose one in the poll, I selected modernism, “the synthesis of all heresies” (Pope St. Pius X).

I’d say this is the greatest danger to souls.
Pax Christi. <><
 
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jjanderson:
I believe the biggest threat to the church is “tolerance.” Soon our priests will be dragged from the alter in handcuffs in the name of “tolerance.” Any discussion of sin will be banned as “hate language.” Bibles will be considered “hate literature.”

Let’s pray for them.

Hail Mary, full of grace…

Peace in Christ +
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On the one hand I agree that the secular lack of “tolerance” for the truth of Christ and the Catholic defense of marriage, right to life, morals etc. is a threat in the ever more pagan society we live in. The biggest threat is still “we” who follow Christ, when we fail to follow Him and Holy Mother Church. I agree we need to pray and continue to speak the truth, to defend the faith and pray for our beloved priests who are under so much attack on all sides.

The good news is that the church shines and spreads the Gospel best in times of persecution. Let us speak the truth boldly and be prepared to fight for the “Pearl of great Price.” Prayer and living lives which witness to the truth of Gods love are the best weapons we have…they are more powerful than all the armies of the world who may assail us. We have the promise of Christ that the world, the flesh and the devil will not prevail. If we are faithful, we will overcome the death dealers of this present age.
 
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Tanais:
What do you think is the greatest threat to our Church in the modern world? I was just curious because I just read an editorial from a priest who says its Secularism. I just wanted to hear other opinions.
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Catholics 🙂​

 
Anna Elizabeth said:
:yup: This is so true. I am a bit less disgusted after having just read Msgr. Michael Wrenn’s "Catechisms and Controversies, published in 1991. He describes the bishops’ efforts in the 1980s that were made then to stem the tide of catechetical insanity and the attempts to derail the publication of the Catechism. From the vantage point of 2004, it would seem that the bishops tried. This is no excuse for their spinelessness today, however. Even now, they coddle those pockets of dissent that remain, witness the lay speakers at the Great Scandal Conference of June, 2002, in Dallas. :mad:

It is often said that we must be patient till the “spirit of Vatican II” cult members die off, and that the Church, of course, has time. For those of us with children and/or grandchildren this is precious little comfort. :gopray2:

Pray always,

Anna
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What do you suppose the Israelites thought when they were enslaved in Egypt? They had to wait 400 years before Moses was raised up to rescue them. The key question is, will you trust in God and obey Him in the mean time?
 
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