Gun Carrying Catholics Armed

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Pup7 said:
To get from one to the other is changing more than one letter
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This is true. On a standard AR lower you would have to mill out the pocket and drill a few extra holes to make it mirror the M16/M4 lower receiver and the fire control group would need changed as well.

But that’s literally the only difference. I’m not saying you can easily convert an AR to an M16. I’m just saying cosmetically, ballistically, and when both are in semi-mode, functionally identical.
 
That’s true - but you’ve changed the whole thing to do that.

They also have different capability. I MUCH prefer the long barrel of the M16 for accuracy, even if it’s no longer the best choice for the environment (more urban than in the past) that we now find ourselves in - which was a big part of the push from the M16 to the M4. Sheer portability.
 
@Irishmom2 For the record, and as a fellow military member, I don’t think Syllogism was rude in the least. We’re all allowed to have differences of opinion - and the way we express them between ourselves might not “translate” well to the outside…

Lunch is over. I shall return.
 
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I mean this respectfully, but we’re splitting hairs now.

In general terms, the only real difference is full/burst/semi vs only semi. I understand this is a big difference in legality but in the real world if I squeeze off three rounds into someone in semi auto or if a mechanical counter runs off three shots with me holding the trigger down after pulling there’s no real discernible difference for the recipient.

I think playing down the capabilities of the rifle, even when limited to semi only, is intellectually dishonest. The same ammo, in similar rifles with same barrel lengths will both perform the same on soft tissue.
 
As my dad would’ve said, they’ll both certainly blow a hole in you. I agree.
 
Pup7 said:
@Irishmom2 For the record, and as a fellow military member, I don’t think Syllogism was rude in the least. We’re all allowed to have differences of opinion - and the way we express them between ourselves might not “translate” well to the outside…
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Yes, I expressed my difference of opinion on the matter, since it is allowed, after all.
 
ArmaLite AR-15:

Specifications
Weight
6.55 lb (2.97 kg) with 20 round magazine[3]
Length
39 in (991 mm)[3]
Barrel length
20 in (508 mm)
Cartridge
.223 Remington
Action
Gas-operated, rotating bolt (direct impingement)
Rate of fire
full-auto 750 rounds/min cyclic[3]
Muzzle velocity
3,300 ft/s (1,006 m/s)[3]
Effective firing range
500 yd (457 m)
Sights
Iron sights

M-16:

Specifications (M16)
Weight
6.37 lb (2.89 kg) (unloaded)
7.5 lb (3.40 kg) (loaded)
Length
39.5 in (1,003 mm)
Barrel length
20 in (508 mm)
Cartridge
5.56×45mm NATO
Action
Gas-operated, rotating bolt (direct impingement)
Rate of fire
700–950 rounds/min cyclic sustained
45–60 rounds/min semi-automatic
Muzzle velocity
3,150 ft/s (960 m/s) (M855A1 round)[9]
Effective firing range
550 m (601 yd) (point target)[10]
800 m (875 yd) (area target)[11]
Maximum firing range
3,600 m (3,937 yd)
Feed system
20-round detachable box magazine:
0.211 lb (96 g) empty / 0.738 lb (335 g) full
30-round detachable box magazine:
0.257 lb (117 g) empty / 1.06 lb (480 g) full)
Beta C-Mag 100-round double-lobed drum:
2.20 lb (1,000 g) empty / 4.81 lb (2,180 g) full)
Sights
Iron sights or various optics

So the weight, length, and barrel length are basically the same.

The cartridge is different: .223 remington in the AR vs 5.56 NATO in the M16. Jan, is the AR you fired a 556 or a 223?

They’re both gas-op, rotating bolt action.

They’re both about the same firing rate (except obviously the AR isn’t normally automatic).

The AR-15 has a slightly higher muzzle velocity at 3300 ft/s as opposed to the M16’s 3150 - I guess due to the different cartridge.

The M-16 has a farther effective range - again probably due to the different cartridge.

So, the differences between the two do appear to be more significant than just the select firing issue.
 
Spyridon said:
The cartridge is different: .223 remington in the AR vs 5.56 NATO in the M16. Jan, is the AR you fired a 556 or a 223?
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Any weapon chambered in 5.56 can also shoot .223

However, if it is chambered in .223 it cannot shoot 5.56.

Most off the shelf AR variants are in 5.56 now.
However, if you bought one that was in .223, a quick barrel change to one chambered in 5.56 and you can shoot both.

All my standard AR’s are 5.56 (I have one in 9mm, and one in 308)

The only reason for a difference in muzzle velocity or range would be barrel length/ammo specs.
 
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My buddy has one. I was able to peg head shots on silhouette targets out to 600 yards 😃
 
Yeah it’s a good cartridge for pretty much any large game in North America
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
All my standard AR’s are 5.56 (I have one in 9mm, and one in 308)

The only reason for a difference in muzzle velocity or range would be barrel length/ammo specs
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Gotcha.

So if you have a 556 AR and an M16, they are essentially the same exact rifle in every functional regard aside from the select fire.

Which is what I originally thought.

Something I should add - when I say I want the AR-15 banned, I believe AR owners should be grandfathered in. I would just like to see the flow of AR’s to the streets stopped or at least significantly slowed.
 
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Pup7 said:
M16
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The M-16 is what I got my marksman award on, so I love it too.

However, I don’t like the idea of every tom, dick and harry being able to own a semi-auto version of it.

Maybe all assault style rifles which are higher cal than a 223 should be banned.
 
I think the public wants to know how to keep teenagers or anyone else who has spent a good chunk of their lives playing videogames in which they role-played killing as many people as possible before they were killed themselves from getting really depressed or really angry and ambushing a crowd and gunning down dozens of people single-handedly in only a matter of minutes.

That is the bottom line. I hate to say it, but most of the public have thrown their hands up in the air when it comes to robbers with handguns at convenience stores. There 300 million weapons in this country, after all. They want to know that they can go to a mall and not be gunned down by a lunatic rather than given a chance to hand over their wallets to a thief. They do not want it to cross their minds that their teenager might be shot and killed at school without ever joining a gang or mixing with the wrong friends.

They do not want to carry loaded weapons on their persons at all times they go out in public, for more reasons than I can count, even though moral reservations about shooting an active mass-shooter is rarely one of them.
 
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If I took an AR lower receiver and an M16 lower receiver and then used identical parts for the rest of the build on each and used the same ammo I would expect results almost completely identical in terms of ballistics.

As far as legality, the lower receiver is what is considered the “firearm” in the eyes of the law. Its a chunk of aluminum with a serial number engraved in it. The M16 lower would have a little more material milled out in a few spots and 2 extra parts compared to the AR lower.

AR left, M4/M16 right

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
IF (and this is a big if in my opinion) banning something would help the mass shooter issue, you’d probably have to go along those lines.

But then you’d have a shooter pick up a glock and stick a 30 round mag in it.

Or we’d see another DC sniper type thing.

Or we’d start seeing uses of IED’s and VBIED’s. Which I’m honestly surprised hasn’t already on major roadways during rush hour and such.
 
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