Gun Carrying Catholics Armed

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Mandatory classes and proficiency testing should be required for ALL those who wish to carry. Ongoing testing should be repeated periodically. No reasonable person would oppose a requirement that those carrying a firearm in public be required to meet training and evaluation standards. Such standards already apply to law enforcements who must prove ongoing proficiency.
 
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If they were trained security personnel hired by him, perhaps. But no bishop in his right mind would agree to be protected by a group of amateurs packing guns. The liabilities would be many.
 
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Actually this very discussion is taking place right now owing to the church shootings,
 
TheOldColonel said:
I see this frequently even though it’s against diocesan policy and state law.
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What is or is not against the law depends both on the state and the church. If the state permits concealed carry then those institutions (other than schools) that don’t want to allow it generally have to explicitly forbid it.

The right to bear arms is not absolute where churches and other private property owners are concerned. Churches can generally place certain requirements on those who visit their property. Just as a business can deny entrance to someone not wearing a shirt or shoes, a church can take steps to limit or restrict certain activities, such as carrying a firearm while on church property. Therefore, barring preclusion by law, private citizens may carry a firearm on church property unless the church specifically prohibits it.
 
It’s against the church policy and the law where I live. Indeed, no one may carry a firearm in church without written permission of the pastor. Pastors are prohibited to grant such permission by our bishop. So, anyone feeling the Constitution or a CWP is all the permission they need to bring a gun into church here is greatly mistaken and committing a serious criminal act. Hope that clarifies it.
 
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TheOldColonel said:
You might consider reading the thread. Then you’ll understand the context. But your example of the 82 year old proves my point. “She did not hit him” says it all. Where did that round go? She might very well have hit someone else in a more crowded situation. Surely you would agree.
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Lots of things might have happened, with one of the most likely being the attacker would have carried out his threat and beaten her to death. In this case carrying a weapon might very well be the thing that saved her life. Nor does the fact that she missed him suggest she shouldn’t have shot at him. It’s one thing to beat a defenseless old woman, but quite another to continue an assault under fire. Suddenly mugging someone for the fun of it isn’t quite the fun one assumed. Your position is long on what-if and short on what-was.
 
There no what-if about it. As you describe it, a person carrying a gun and trying to defend herself missed her target and sent a stray round through a parking lot. Do you think that’s a safe situation? Imagine that same situation in a crowd. This is why amateurs should not carry guns.
 
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Ender said:
A Baton Rouge, Louisiana, boy who was left home alone with his sister shot an intruder who tried to kick in the door of their apartment. The 10-year-old retrieved his mother’s gun from a closet, and shot Roderick Porter, who was, by then, inside.
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If private citizens were as wild and dangerous as they claim, they should have loads of evidence, real news stories, to back them up.

Yet all they have is conjecture while the actual news stories paint a different picture, like the 10yr old boy.
 
Just Google “killed by stray bullet” and all of the news stories are there.
 
When the matter is hand is this grave, as in the murder of children, doing nothing is not an option.
Neither is doing the same in-effective things (like gun control) an option.

Which parent among us would behave this way if someone were threatening our family?
Try something. Try something different.
 
TheOldColonel said:
Just Google “killed by stray bullet” and all of the news stories are there.
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Suggest you do the same, they don’t support you in this case. Not one story referenced a concealed carry user killing innocents from his act of self defense.

Celebratory fire has killed, but that act in itself is highly illegal and should result in the loss of gun rights
Target shooting in your back yard is also a crime

I did find stories of the police hitting innocents, but not the millions of legal carry holders in a defensive encounter. I’m sure it’s happened, but clearly it is not as frequent as you imagine it should be.

I suspect people who legally concealed carry are by far among the most responsible gun owners. Accidents do happen but the number reported doesn’t point to rampant irresponsibility
 
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A few months ago, in my hometown, a man went into a Cracker Barrel, sat down and ordered a meal. Then, his concealed weapon fell from his pants and discharged sending a stray bullet through the room, narrowly missing other patrons including children. He was rightly arrested on the spot.
 
Theo520 said:
Suggest you do the same, they don’t support you in this case. Not one story referenced a concealed carry user killing innocents from his act of self defense.
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There are, of course, numerous stories where lives have been saved by people with CCW permits.

On May 4, 2009, two masked men with guns burst into a home in College Park, Georgia, while a birthday party was in progress. Ten people, some of them college students, were inside the apartment. The intruders separated the men from the women. One of the intruders started counting his bullets; the other asked how many bullets he had. “He said he had enough.” It does not take much imagination to figure out that there were going to be no witnesses. At this point, one of the students managed to reach into his backpack, pull out a gun, and shoot one of the intruders, who then fled the apartment wounded. The student then ran into the room where the other intruder, Calvin Lavant, 23, was starting to rape a young woman. The armed student told the naked woman to get down—and shot Lavant, who then jumped out the window.
 
But something is being done and it does not rely on amateurs carrying guns. Thankfully, Josey Wales is not setting policy on this.
 
TheOldColonel said:
A few months ago, in my hometown, a man went into a Cracker Barrel, sat down and ordered a meal. Then, his concealed weapon fell from his pants and discharged sending a stray bullet through the room, narrowly missing other patrons including children. He was rightly arrested on the spot.
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That didn’t result in a fatality, so that is why it wasn’t in my search.

I acknowledge it happens (even fatalities), but it’s not very frequent considering the number of people who concealed carry.

People who legally concealed carry are not the crux of the problem.

I googled your story and it appears the man was not charged, which disappointed me.
He should have been charged with negligent discharge (think that’s what it’s called). Another example of not enforcing our existing gun laws.
 
I’d just like to see those who carry have better training. That, I feel, is in the best interest of all in respect to safety and preserving Second Amendment rights.
 
@TheOldColonel
lol, from my google, crackerbarrel seems to have a high number of negligent discharges.
If I ever find one near me, I’ll proceed with caution.
 
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