Guys I'm upset: My cousin pastor wrote a HARSH piece on the Catholic Church (sex abuse)

[debgab]

Women have the same capacity for sin as Men; how’s that for equality?

 

[QwertyGirl]

But ultimately, so long as we think women are behind just because they can’t be Cardinal or Pope, then I think we seriously mistake the purpose of the Church — not to mention life, which is to become saints.

I don’t really think it is about anyone being left behind, women or otherwise. It is about one group of people having too much power over the rest of the people, ultimatley limiting them. That amount of power is too much, given the institution and what it is supposed to be about. Nobody should have that much power. Power, in this way and in this circumstance, corrupts. It allows those holding the power to belive they are able to use the power in damaging ways. I don’t think anyone here will agree with me on this, and that is OK. I did read all of the posts, and just thought I would share my viewpoint. It seems that a lot of the posters aren’t able to understand why non-Catholics believe the way they do regarding this issue.

 

[somecanadian]

I think the answer is not female ‘empowerment’ but to put priests and Bishops in their rightly place (they were never meant to have ‘power’, they were meant to emulate Christ).

 

[theCardinalbird]

I did read all of the posts, and just thought I would share my viewpoint. It seems that a lot of the posters aren’t able to understand why non-Catholics believe the way they do regarding this issue.

And I think some posters dont understand the Catholic viewpoint regarding the state of things with a male-only Priesthood

 

[QwertyGirl]

And I think some posters dont understand the Catholic viewpoint regarding the state of things with a male-only Priesthood

That may be. I am not one of them. I understand just fine. I happen to disagree. I think the evidence supports my viewpoint, also. But I respect your right to beleive what you do, just as I do my right to believe what I do.

 

[theCardinalbird]

I think the evidence supports my viewpoint,

I’m intrigued. what evidence?

 

[catholic1seeks]

What you are not seeing is that the secular world is increasingly moral and ethical. The secular world gave us human rights laws. The Church did not. Laws to protect from slavery and racism were passed by secular governments, not the Church. Laws to protect from discrimination on the basis of gender, disability, sexual orientation, religious belief and ethnicity are not the work of the Church, but the secular world.

Actually, the notion of “human rights” comes from the Catholic Church and the larger Christian narrative. See the book How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.

In my view, the teaching of “Love thy neighbour” is now stronger in the secular world than that of the Church, certainly in terms of law. If I abuse someone racially, I will be prosecuted and could face a jail sentence. In the Catholic Church all I have to do is confess to a priest. What is to stop me doing it again?

I’m confused. The role of the Church and the State are clearly distinct. Do you want parishes to have their own prison cells?

You don’t seem to be addressing anything I said, at all.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I’m intrigued. what evidence?

My experience and the experience of so many others. That’s all I have. It is all I need. Abuse of power (and then attempting to cover it up) is pretty apparent when it happens and it is caught. We can all go in different directions when we try to determine what contributed to it. If it is an isolated incident, a multitude of conclusions can be thrown against the wall to see what sticks. When it becomes a pattern, it becomes a lot easier to sort it out.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Well, I think more people agree with you than you think, at least what you said here. No one wants corrupt priests. No one wants anyone to abuse their power.

Again, the issue is don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

The Apostles were all men. But they didn’t lord over the faithful. Can’t we maintain that only men can be priests, and yet still say that their authority can be abused?

I think we can.

 

[somecanadian]

I’m just baffled by the mentality that having women in the mix would fix everything. As if women are more moral and more capable of handling ‘power’.

To me it’s obvious the problem is the culture and the abuse of position, not the maleness of those in ‘power’.

sigh So many people think so little of men. It’s very discouraging (and I’m female, so I don’t say this as a man… I say it as a woman who is tired of seeing all the hatred aimed at men).

 

[AdamP88]

And this is the perfect example of how that kind of gendered authority is toxic, not just to women, but to men as well.

If you say that women can’t preach, you are essentially saying that women are not equal to men. (Miss me with apologetics for complementarianism. I still call B.S.). When you say that women are not equal to men, then you create space for men to abuse women.

This system doesn’t value the voice of women, nor does it value women’s bodies. Let’s talk about the teaching of “natural family planning” for one thing, and how that essentially takes all the fun out of sex for women. That is just one way that the Church attempts to control women’s bodies and sexuality.

I’m sorry but she is clearly a “progressive” with an axe to grind against the Church. She has no argument, only assertions.

 

[theCardinalbird]

Abuse of power (and then attempting to cover it up) is pretty apparent when it happens and it is caught.

And your conclusion of abuse of power is that we need to change the Sacrament of Holy Orders? I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, but I can’t see how women ordinations are going to avoid abuse of power.

Your idea is this:

Men are abusing there power

Conclusion: we need to ordain women even though they are also prone to abusing power.

What I find saddening is that you make it seem that men can’t avoid abusing power but women can. In fact, women ordinations do not even address the whole crisis of abusing power. Not all the men in the priesthood are abusing power, some are really good godly men. Those who are abusing their power are abusing it and will continue to abuse it even if there were female ordinations. There has to be another way in avoiding abuse of power, and while you may not see the theological implications of women ordinations, some of us do, and in fact it is impossible to ordain women in the Catholic Church.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I think you completely misunderstood my assertion. It isn’t a man/ woman thing. It is a segregation thing, with one group holding far too much power. In this instance, it happens to be that the segregation is between men and women. I think the same issue would arise if it was racial segregation, or segregation based on nationality, or wealth, or any other thing. When one identifiable group of people in a religious institution holds all the power, the corrupt ones are going to believe that gives them permission to abuse the power. It is just how it is. In fact, it is that way in most instituitions, religious or not. My suggestion, if I were queen of the world, would be to develop a system of checks and balances within the Church. That is what will aid in keeping the corruption at least in check. But to have a system of Checks and balances, it means power needs to be equally distributed, and that is the part that is currently missing.

Look, I get that you don’t agree with me and that is fine. Agreeing and understanding are two different things. The previous posts I read here made me feel like there are many who honestly don’t understand. Therefore, I posted. I really don’t care to argue or debate the issue though. What I think really doesn’t matter unless the person on the receiving end is interested, as opposed to just defending their own beleif.

 

[AlNg]

Anti-celibacy, not an issue.

I disagree. I think it is better to require all priests to marry before ordination.

 

[Jezra]

I’m confused. The role of the Church and the State are clearly distinct. Do you want parishes to have their own prison cells?

That is my point. Why can’t the Church and the Secular co-exist, as your friend is advocating? Don’t both share the same objective?

 

[Fauken]

I think it is better to require all priests to marry before ordination.

And deprive the Church of not only the beautiful gift of celibacy to her priests, but get rid of her bishops? I don’t think so.

 

[on_the_hill]

Also where is your proof that the patriarchy is a direct consequence for these abuses?

I don’t have any. Except we know that women are far less likely to commit sex crimes and have a qualitatively, inherently different approach to the world. Men and women are complimentary. The complementary nature is not being put to use.

Do you hold this view for all decisions made by the Church?

No, but I’m not sure which are which at this point. I really cannot trust them at this point.

 

[somecanadian]

Last time they co-existed we had an Inquisition… just sayin’.

 

[Fauken]

It would not get rid of bishops to require candidates for the priesthood to get married before ordination. The first Pope, the bishop of Rome, was a married man.

Except it is a canonical and Biblical requirement that they not be married to become Bishops. Insinuating that none of them can keep it in their pants aside, you’re making a requirement that has no Biblical basis that simultaneously renders them invalid for the episcopacy until their wife dies. Not to mention the whole slew of problems that can crop up for priests who are actually in invalid marriages.

 

[AlNg]

Except it is a canonical and Biblical requirement that they not be married to become Bishops.

I think it is better to follow the example of Jesus who chose a married man to be the first Pope and bishop. After all, He was the Divine Son of God.