Harry Potter Confusion

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Dear Growing Grape:

I applaud you for your spiritual discernment and maturity…and I am delighted that you intend to discard your Harry Potter books, etc. Now we need to educate your misguided Father, who has been taken in by Harry’s “magick.”

I am not suggesting book burning or censorship here. I am merely attempting to educate the “Catholic” readers in this thread to understand that we are no longer “pagans” - we don’t do what the pagans do. We were redeemed by the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. That places us squarely AGAINST THE WORLD and all of its seductions.

When the “world” flocks and supports paganism, occult, darkness and evil…we should have the courage and knowledge to say NO! NOT FOR ME! I have seen the LIGHT, and MY LORD HAS SET ME FREE!

As the Harry Potter series becomes increasingly violent, evil and un-godly as it evolves into the future, making its author one of the most wealthy, influential writers and motivators of our day, perhaps then, faithful Christ followers will understand what we are saying here.

Until that time…they remain in the darkness. They have been seduced and don’t even know it. It’s so sad.

Arlene Alice
 
Man o man…

This thread was a long read.

I understand everyone’s opinions, but I need to put my two cents in here…
  1. I f you don’t like or don’t agree with Harry Potter or his world…don’t read it.
  2. If you are not strong in your faith, or have a problem discerning reality from fantasy…don’t read it.
  3. If you spend more time looking into the details and trying to square this book up against your own morality…step back for a sec…the world’s biggest problems have always been due to not seeing the forest for the trees.
  4. The arguement of occultism is now rediculous at best…why?..you have one person in this thread who claims they converted over from wicca to Catholism…and not one of you that are against these books have given him credence concerning that as far as I can see. Who better to be able to explain the commonalities than one who has been there, done that?
  5. If you got a problem with all the details in the books, you need to have a problem with a lot of other books. Harry Potter is easy to attack in this thread because the ‘magic’ and its use is blatant throught the storyline. I have yet to see anyone here start another thread about another ungodly book…
  6. For those of you who can overlook certain things, the Potter series is a good read, although slow in certain areas where the backstory is told. All in all, a good read.
  7. I do not recommend the book to kids who are not able to reason well, yet I do yield to parents who know what their kiddoes can handle. Mine handle it quite well.
  8. For those who would go so far as to say this book ‘teaches magic’, which I don’t hink I saw that on this thread, but I have in others on other boards…they don’t. Slow me where, If you can…and I would like the quotes to contain chapter numbers…I do have all the books here at home…and have read them all.
 
  1. I have read some statements that sound as if some people believe that the students, and other witches and wizards in the book are normal people who go to a school to be taught witchcraft…someone didn’t read the book…well…read Chapter two about the snake…the glass disappeared when Harry got angry…and then in Chapter 4 when Hagrid alludes that that ‘special gift’ made him differenr from those who didn’t have it.
  2. Let’s quote from the bible, shall we? For just about everything people have quotes thus far from the bible…most of it concerns the ACTIVE use of such things…these were discussed as to not be activily used for it takes from God. The one poster who quoted about judging based on whether or not it takes something from God was right on…however…human nature being what it is…we are not so perfect that we can resist diving into a good book or two. That is why not everyone is declared a saint.
  3. The active moralistic life of Harry Potter…did he lie or not any why…kids can relate to that…it makes him more real in a fictional situation for many kids today. But where are the howlings about the abuse this kid goes through in the summer? What about the credence to his experiences and his ability to fail in the trust department? Look at the entire picture.
For the record, I read every book before my son gets ahold of it. If I don’t agree with it, he doesn’t read it. He loves Harry Potter…he is 11, and he has an active prayer life. I have often walked in on him praying the rosary. I wish I knew more children like him.

StorytellerAngel
 
Arlene Alice:
Dear Growing Grape:

I applaud you for your spiritual discernment and maturity…and I am delighted that you intend to discard your Harry Potter books, etc. Now we need to educate your misguided Father, who has been taken in by Harry’s “magick.”

I am not suggesting book burning or censorship here. I am merely attempting to educate the “Catholic” readers in this thread to understand that we are no longer “pagans” - we don’t do what the pagans do. We were redeemed by the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. That places us squarely AGAINST THE WORLD and all of its seductions.

When the “world” flocks and supports paganism, occult, darkness and evil…we should have the courage and knowledge to say NO! NOT FOR ME! I have seen the LIGHT, and MY LORD HAS SET ME FREE!

As the Harry Potter series becomes increasingly violent, evil and un-godly as it evolves into the future, making its author one of the most wealthy, influential writers and motivators of our day, perhaps then, faithful Christ followers will understand what we are saying here.

Until that time…they remain in the darkness. They have been seduced and don’t even know it. It’s so sad.

Arlene Alice
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Interesting. The whole world is plunged into darkness…by all manner of things…

occultism is the least of your worries.

Story
 
IMO the best young adult fantasy fiction we have seen has come from authors who were devoutly religious Christians (Tolkien was Catholic, C.S. Lewis and Madelaine L’Engle Anglican). J.K. Rowling does not seem to have anywhere near this faith basis in her writing. And word that these Harry Potter books are becoming darker and more occultish is certainly alarming.
 
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everlastingthur:
Another reason to avoid it is the Vatican’s head expert on Satanism and the Occult (I don’t know his name) says Harry Potter is straight from the pit of hell. Strong words from someone in such a high position. I
His name is Fr. Gabriel Amorth, and he’s the chief exorcist of Rome.
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Envoy magazine has a good article on the subject:

envoymagazine.com/backissues/5.3/harrypotter.htm

I also reccomend this link to Christianity Today:
christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/012/34.113.html
The author has a great analogy for the Harry Potter books.

I also thought initially that the Harry Potter books were harmless entertainment. However, as I began to read them, more and more things began to jump out at me- lots of hidden symbolism, real herbs used in potions, and so on.
 
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Kath:
One thing (TRUE) that you might be interested to know about Harry Potter is2 things, the names that they use in the movies and the books, are real names of Demons, and as these name are said, these deamons are released from hell (Not to do good thingd either)> Another thing is that a women who found out that Harry Potter was pure evil burned the books and other Harry Potter stuff and stated that she (1) has never seen a fire like that before and (2) that while the stuff was burning, she heard hiddious howling. This is true.
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Kath, my classes include a unit on how to recognize an urban legend. I’m sorry, but this has all the earmarks of one.
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raggster:
furthermore, i don’t believe i’ve ever encountered a list of names of demons. there are a few mentioned in the Bible (Baal, Azazel), but none of these were used in the Harry Potter series. what are your sources?

and if someone burning Harry Potter paraphernalia heard hideous laughter while they burned, that is a personal experience i will not put into question. however, regardless of its veracity, i don’t see how that proves that Harry Potter is “evil.”
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I have to agree with raggster. I’m not a fan of Harry Potter. I haven’t read him. I haven’t seen the movies. And my children haven’t, either (They youngest is in her mid-twenties and has always preferred classical literature.) However, I have nothing against them - I just have better things to do with my time.
 
Dear Story: Satan sometimes disguises himself as the “angel of light” ! I would guess that you have yet to make a mature discernment of what is darkness and what is light. Pray the prayer to the Holy Spirit - He will help you.

I have skimmed thru the H.P. series and followed the Harry Potter controversy from the beginning. I have seven grandchildren whose spiritual guidance is my concern as well as their parents. I KNOW how the Harry Potter craze has affected the children…and even some very naive adults. Their other grandmother bought them all of the books, videos, etc., and even threw in a quija board to help them out in their curiosity of the occult !!! I threw it in the garbage immediately! She took them to see the latest H.P. movie…the younger kids DID NOT ENJOY IT. I’m glad they have more sense than Granny.

The craziness of this is that she is a practicing “Catholic!” God help us all from “Catholics” like this!

At one time, the Scholastic.com web site held a chat room where children could practice curses - as all good Hogwarts do. The curses were mostly violence toward another human being, wishing harm to their supposed enemies, etc., all from kids ranging in ages from 8 to 17! Tell me that this is clean fun for kids ???

scholastic.com/harrypotter/reading/

I’m sorry you hadn’t taken the time to read Ankerberg’s web site on Harry Potter. He furnishes all of the scriptural notes you need to be fully informed of what Christians should NOT PARTAKE IN.
I will make it easy for you…check it out.

johnankerberg.org/hp-articles/hp-questions.htm

Those who cite the works of Tokien, C.S Lewis and other children’s fantasy writers as a similar comparison, need to resource their lives. Rowling’s spirituality and motivation is highly questionable. She is reported to have done much research into witchcraft and the occult to spin her Harry tales.

The way I handle my grandchildren’s interest in Harry Potter is to offer them sound Catholic/Christian children’s resources - especially the Lives of the Saints. I tell them why I am not pleased with the Harry Potter series and offer them scriptural and catechetical reasons why. Catholic parents who care need to discern the hidden dangers of the occult in today’s world. It’s not only their responsibility, it’s their duty.

Arlene Alice
 
To Story and other Harry Potter “Catholics” -

I hope you have visited the Scholastic web site by now - this is the company that is making billions publishing the Harry Potter series.

May I direct you to T*Witches and their page on casting spells. “Lord of Darkness, Lord of Light” an incantation posted there from a kid ???

scholastic.com/titles/twitches/spellbook.htm#spring

Perhaps the books don’t spell out the way one uses magick or where magick powers come from, but it excites the reader into dark curiosities and into a world that is forbidden to the God-fearing/God-loving believer. The Scholastic people just feed into that curiosity. I don’t call that benign fun and games…I call it evil…and I say don’t have ANYTHING to do with it.

The Bible warns us of the consequences of leading our children astray. Was Jesus just fooling?

Those of us who have witnessed the results of dabbling into the occult can speak of its reality, its seductive dangers, its eventual entrapment.

Those of you who haven’t…really don’t know what you are talking about.

Period.
 
Arlene Alice:
Dear Story: Satan sometimes disguises himself as the “angel of light” ! I would guess that you have yet to make a mature discernment of what is darkness and what is light. Pray the prayer to the Holy Spirit - He will help you.

I have skimmed thru the H.P. series and followed the Harry Potter controversy from the beginning. I have seven grandchildren whose spiritual guidance is my concern as well as their parents. I KNOW how the Harry Potter craze has affected the children…and even some very naive adults. Their other grandmother bought them all of the books, videos, etc., and even threw in a quija board to help them out in their curiosity of the occult !!! I threw it in the garbage immediately! She took them to see the latest H.P. movie…the younger kids DID NOT ENJOY IT. I’m glad they have more sense than Granny.

The craziness of this is that she is a practicing “Catholic!” God help us all from “Catholics” like this!
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Arlene:

First of all…you have no idea of what kind of discernment I may have…and you are not in a position to judge it…so don’t.

Second: i am suprised at your responses for the simple fact that you post in such a way that those who disagree with you, are not in the same faith level as you…I disagree. Very unchristian.

Have I posted about your faith level, your discernment? Have I made snide remarks about where everyone probably is in their faith level? Judge not, for judgement belongs to God, and to act against that is also from the devil…

As for the rest of your first post…my children don’t go running around acting out anything Potter. They read, they ask questions, and they go on. My son is very grounded in his faith thus far (you must have overlooked that in my post), and sees it as nothing more than fiction.

As for your personal experiences with the other Grandma…good for you. The O. Board would have been in my BBQ before the box could be opened…but books are books.

Story
 
Arlene Alice:
To Story and other Harry Potter “Catholics” -

I hope you have visited the Scholastic web site by now - this is the company that is making billions publishing the Harry Potter series.

May I direct you to T*Witches and their page on casting spells. “Lord of Darkness, Lord of Light” an incantation posted there from a kid ???

scholastic.com/titles/twitches/spellbook.htm#spring

Perhaps the books don’t spell out the way one uses magick or where magick powers come from, but it excites the reader into dark curiosities and into a world that is forbidden to the God-fearing/God-loving believer. The Scholastic people just feed into that curiosity. I don’t call that benign fun and games…I call it evil…and I say don’t have ANYTHING to do with it.

The Bible warns us of the consequences of leading our children astray. Was Jesus just fooling?

Those of us who have witnessed the results of dabbling into the occult can speak of its reality, its seductive dangers, its eventual entrapment.

Those of you who haven’t…really don’t know what you are talking about.

Period.
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have you listened to the one person who has posted on this thread that said s/he was wiccan, and this is nothing like it? You may have witnessed something, but this person actually did it, and coverted to Catholism…Praise God. Yet no one has really acknowledged him.

Second…and I am seeing this alot…you want to place guilt on the Potter series, but you keep bringing up sites that are linked to them and saying…‘see there it is, so it is all evil’…good research doesn’t work that way. You admitted to skimming the books, and I will give you credit where credit is due, but referring to me and others as Harry Potter Catholics is, once again, uncharitable.

I am a Catholic, period.

i can’t help what scholastic does on their site, and I dont let my children get on the internet. I filter most everything they see and do.

Furthermore, and my last piece: the one person from the Vatican you quote is the top exorsist…but what about the rest of bishops and cardinals who have said the book is ok to read? Or do we toss them out as well, because they don’t agree with private interpretation? After all, this is why this thread is entitled “Harry Potter Confusion”, is it not?

Story
 
Arlene Alice:
…perhaps then, faithful Christ followers will understand what we are saying here.

Until that time…they remain in the darkness. They have been seduced and don’t even know it. It’s so sad.
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That’s an oxymoronic statement. If one is a “faithful Christ follower,” he is not “seduced” nor is he “in the darkness.”

I’m a huge Harry Potter fan, and I make no apologies for so being. And I am a “faithful Christ follower.”

I really think that this Harry Potter “thing” has gotten way out of control and has been tremendously over-analyzed. Does anyone know any child who has “gone over to the dark side” and says they attribute it to reading Harry Potter?

WRT to those who do not allow their children to read the Potter books, I am quite confident that I could (over)analyze any book that they do approve of their children reading and give them dozens of reasons why the book is dangerous to their child, goes against Church teaching on any number of issues, and point out all of the bad lessons they are learning from the characters in the book. This is, in my opinion, what has been done with the Potter books.

Which “approved” children books, I wonder, portray the children and other characters as perfect, faultless beings who never lie, are never naughty, or never do anything whatsoever unkind or wrong – ever?

We are a deeply committed 100% Roman Catholic family. Our children already knew that witchcraft/sorcery/occultism is a major evil and abomination and knew the Scripture that backs this up before the world ever heard of Harry Potter. When the books came out – and all the naysayers posed their objections and warnings, we took out our Bibles and re-read Deut. 18’s prohibitions against the occult and talked a lot about the books. The reaction I got from my children when I asked them probing questions about their reading of the books can be summed up in this paraphrased synopsis: “Uh, Mom? It’s just make-believe. It’s only a story, you know.”

We all have read the books and enjoyed them immensely for what they are; i.e., great storytelling, nothing more.

Parents know better than anyone else what their children should and should not read. They know what is likely to adversely influence them or pose possible danger to them.
 
I really think that any child who would be tempted to the occult by Harry Potter would be equally susceptible to that temptation in his absence.

There are some posting here (on both sides of the argument, if I am not mistaken) who say they strayed to the occult in their youth. Did any of them have Harry freakin Potter leading them by the hand? I doubt it.

To repeat my main thesis on the topic: De gustibus non est disputandum

If you don’t care for it, if you don’t think it is suitable for your children, that’s fine.

If you think your children can discern fantasy from reality, that’s fine too.

Many people hold up *The Lord of the Rings * as a much more “appropriate” fantasy series for children and adults. They may be right, but you know what? It’s not my cuppa. I have made repeated attempts over the course of 30 years to “get” the Lord of the Rings, and I just can’t. I can’t even stay awake through the films. My daughter loves them, and makes occasional forays to the books. I don’t care for them, but I don’t think she is wrong to enjoy them.
:twocents:
 
My children and I have read all the books. I would say that we have enjoyed the books, do we go overboard with all the stuff NO, but then I have never alowed them to delve into any form of spure of the moment got a haves like beenie babies or my little ponies or what ever the current fad was. We have read them as a good fiction. The big thing I think is that too many people want to read way to much into them. The other thing I think is problematic is trying to compare Harry Potter to LOTR. They are two totally different works of fiction on the same issue of good vs evil. It is like when people tried to compare Star Wars with Close Encounters of the Third Kind (boy does this date me), two works of fiction on the same topic. I would agree that my children and I have enjoyed the LOTR better, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t enjoy Harry Potter for what it was. As a priest told us about Harry Potter, the big thing that gets to kids is that it is a time in their life when they feel very unempowered, and Harry helps them to feel a little empowered. He said we need to let the chidren know where the real power comes from, our Lord Jesus Christ. That is why we talk to our children. Like someone posted earlier that we as parents are to parent our children. Most of the children that you read about who have been swayed by this series did not have parents to guide them. Which unfortunately is true in every aspect of our culture. Also, you can control a lot of what your child will see and hear at the young ages 10 and under, but as they get older they will see and hear things that you would not like, and you can’t shelter them from (there is a world out there). However, if you are open to reading and seeing what they do then you can discuss it. I am not advocating they see or you approve of them seeing and reading everything out there. Things that are overly sexual, violent, or blatantly attacking our faith should be avoided. However, Harry Potter is not that, and discussion especially with older children could bring them much closer to their faith, and teach them how to decern their faith.
 
Dear Story:

You are calling me “judgemental???” Read your points and tell me that what you are saying isn’t passing judgement on those who disagree with your logic, your conclusions. My apologies if your feelings were hurt. This is a subject I DO NOT take lightly, and I am astounded and, yes, angry, at how cavalier and un-informed many Catholics are about the occult.

I WAS INVOLVED IN THE OCCULT. No, not as a Wiccan witch [and there is no such thing as “white magic,” though they profess there is !], but as a disenchanted, cradle Catholic, who hit a mid-life crisis and went along with the New Age crowd [many of whom were “searching” and scripturally-uninformed Catholics who were looking for alternate “power” sources].

The New Age craze offers all of the “power,” fantasy, imagination, “spirituality” thrills and hocus-pocus that the Harry Potter series does…only for adults… who for the most part are tired of their mainline religions, for one reason or another, and are looking for “new enlightenment.” The only catch is that the “power” the New Age offers is not the “power of the Holy Spirit.” The [Old Age] supernatural manifestations that occur have their power source in Satan, the demonic - plain and simple. The power source that Harry Potter uses to gain his goals is not the power of the Holy Spirit, but the power of magic, sorcery, wizardry, withcraft, mediumship, spells, etc., all practices which are forbidden to the Christian believer because their power source is from Satan. The First Commandment is quite clear about false gods - false belief systems. Our God is a “jealous” God !

After my New Age dabblings in the 70s, I moved into the Catholic Charismatic Movement - partly to satisfy my need for visible manifestations of the presence of God, which this scripturally- based experience offers. Speaking in tongues, prophecy, healing, the gift of discernment, etc., all manifested thru the power of the Holy Spirit, satisfied my need to dynamically grow in spirituality.

Many people come to our Charismatic Prayer Groups seeking relief from depression, oppression, dark thoughts, and evil manifestations, etc. As we lay hands in prayer on them, we sometimes witness satanic oppression with visible signs, such as screaming, thrashing on the floor, vulgar speech, curses, head and eye rolling, frothing at the mouth, etc. There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that these folks have been experiencing something dark and something real.

I would rather believe the words of the Vatican exorcist than that of the many Bishops who are themselves in the dark. Our Chicago Archdioces has two exorcists. Why do we need exorcists in this advanced and “enlightened” age? Catholics, wake up to the occult around us…fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Reading Resources:
" The New Age Counterfeit" - Johnette Benkovic
“Catholics and the New Age” - Mitch Pacwa, S.J.
“Cults, Sects and the New Age” - Rev. James J. LeBar
 
If your child read Harry Potter or watched the films in a vacuum, he or she may be easily influenced by the negatives whether the witchcraft or Harry’s lack of morals. However, with parental guidance, I believe there are many teachable moments. My children have developed a sense of empathy as Harry deals with his relatives. In addition, how would you expect Harry to have devoloped a sense of morals or to trust adults considering how and who raised him. I resisted these books, but my daughter is an awesome reader and has read all of the classics as well as Laura Ingalls Wilder and read the entire Potter series in three weeks. She has even attempted The Hobbit, but it was too slow moving. She is 8 years old. We talk about 3what she is reading. She knows it is fiction as do my 6 year old twins who have seen the movies. None of them is interested in witchcraft and each understands very well the consequences of lying and deception (both by parents and my daughter is beginning to understand the damage to your soul). All of life is a learning process. I will protect them from some things that I truly believe are damaging, but I will also teach them their Catholic beliefs so they can discern for themselves when they are faced with whatever life gives them.
Jennifer
Mother of Rachel 8, Trey & Isaac 6, and Jack 3
 
The Vatican ruled an age ago that Harry Potter is acceptable reading for Catholic youth.

Still, if you believe that your kid isn’t mature enough to handle it, don’t let them read it.

But also be on guard against insulting their intelligence.
 
Arlene Alice:
You are calling me “judgemental???”
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I’m not Story, but I will call you judgemental – and of course I am making a judgement to write that – it is a judgement based on what you have written, not on what you have not written.

When you use “scare quotes” to refer to others as
Harry Potter “Catholics”
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or
The craziness of this is that she is a practicing “Catholic!”
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I does nothing to help your case, and only shows your judgementalism – “If someone doesn’t condemn Harry Potter outright, they cannot possibly be Catholic like the clever enlightened person I am”. Bah.

Now only you know your family, and you may have good reason to question the Catholicity of your child’s mother-in-law, but nothing you have written – not even the purchase of a ouija board – is one.

Perhaps you didn’t mean those things you have written. Perhaps you did not realize how other readers would find them so judgemental. If so, you are free to retract them. I would happily revise my judgement of you if you did.
 
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tee_eff_em:
I’m not Story, but I will call you judgemental – and of course I am making a judgement to write that – it is a judgement based on what you have written, not on what you have not written.

When you use “scare quotes” to refer to others as

or

I does nothing to help your case, and only shows your judgementalism – “If someone doesn’t condemn Harry Potter outright, they cannot possibly be Catholic like the clever enlightened person I am”. Bah.

Now only you know your family, and you may have good reason to question the Catholicity of your child’s mother-in-law, but nothing you have written – not even the purchase of a ouija board – is one.

Perhaps you didn’t mean those things you have written. Perhaps you did not realize how other readers would find them so judgemental. If so, you are free to retract them. I would happily revise my judgement of you if you did.
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I was going to say something, but Tee_em_off was to the point.

And by that point, I will let it stand.

Thank you, Tee.

Story
 
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