Harry Potter Confusion

[raggster]

with regards to HP being more than just a book of fiction, i agree. i consider it a challenge to us Catholics, especially to Catholic parents, to be mindful of the realities surrounding fantasy works and to guide their children accordingly.

to my mind, claiming that Harry Potter is “evil” literature that must be banned/burned/etc. is almost tantamount to saying that we Catholics are helpless to stop any negative influences it may have on our children. i believe and hope that this is not the case.

Peace out.

 

[everlastingthur]

King's X Fan:

I think the point here is that you and others on the anti- side of this discussion admit that Rowling has refuted studying occultism. You say that she has also said that she studied occultism. Those of us on the pro- side are having trouble believing you.

Instead of pointing us to a third-party source, why not go out there and find us a link or two to support your claim? There’s enough misinformation out there to merit being careful about passing around third party claims, I’d say. So get us some documentation, or we really have nothing to say to that. Your argument is akin to saying “look, I found someone who agrees with me - therefore she must have said it.” Find the quote, please.

I did supply a link to support my claim. What other source beside a third party source can eithe of us provide. I doubt either of us know Rowling personally. Others here have also supplied sources. That’s more than most on the Pro-Potter side have done. It’s easy pick someone’s argument apart with “that’s not true” and I don’t beleive that. Since I don’t know Rowling personally I suggest reading Fantasy and Your Family by Richard Abanes. Even if you’re a big fan of Potter, and you stay a fan reading a good argument is not a bad thing. After reading it if you can counter his arguments then you’ll be an even better apologist. Both sides on this issue have gotten a little cranky here, myself included. The best I can do, though, is provide my sources. There are excellent sources by Michael O’brien that one poster provided. I even listed a link that has the actually radio broadcast where Rowling said. Once again here is the link…
wamu.org/dr/shows/drarc_991018.html#wednesday

The book goes into more detail than I can here. I’m not an expert on Harry Potter. I was a support, though, before reading Abanes’ argument against the Potter series. I hold no ill will toward you or anyother Harry Potter fan. I hold no ill will toward J K Rowling. I beleive she tried to write good books, eventhough I think she went about it the wrong way. As for her denying studying the occult. I can give no more evidence than I already have without typing Fanatasy and Your Family. She denied studying the occult. Abanes says otherwise and has sources to support it.

Whatever happens, thanks for the good debate. I can’t say anymore on the subject that’s not in books and web links, anyway. If you have trouble believing me I can’t do much more to fix that. I’m not making up anything I say, though. If my argument is a bad one it’s not originally my argument in the first place. However, I have listed the source of my beliefs. Here’s a link to it if anyone is interested. Once again, I’m no expert on Potter. His argument makes sense to me, though. Well meaning, intelligent, and Godly people fall on both sides of the debate. A King’s X fan can’t be that bad. God bless, and once again thanks for the debate.

I sit in a chair reflecting back upon my life (reading, of course) and have so much yet to learn and so much yet to see and do it’s love that holds it all together.

%between%

 

[Vitus]

I put no stock in what Richard Abanes says. He’s an Evangelical author with an obvious agenda and the inability to distinguish fact from fiction which his books about Harry Potter and The DaVinci Code (another book of FICTION) illustrate. It wouldn’t be suprising if he took quotes out of context and misrepresented Rowlings or anyone else he doesn’t agree with (as Evangelicals are prone to do).

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

everlastingthur:

Nowhere in my comment did I say YOU said or were trying to say kids should read porn. Since you pulled the quote please read what I typed. You said if it gets kids to read it’s good. I merely stated an exageration. An exageration that wouldn’t be good for kids to read. If you’re a Potter fan that’s fine. Please don’t put words in my mouth by saying I’m putting words in yours. Have a nice day.

But in your “exageration” you chose to use the name of a well known purveyor of pornography… As it was a reply directed towards me and what I had to say, in essence your “exageration” was an attempt to show how foolish you think my statement was… That because I said that the Harry Potter books are good becuase they get kid to read, you attempted to draw a line between that and kids reading pornography…

That the support of one is the same as the support of the other…

So it was you who put words into my mouth, not the other way around.

 

[everlastingthur]

ByzCath:

But in your “exageration” you chose to use the name of a well known purveyor of pornography… As it was a reply directed towards me and what I had to say, in essence your “exageration” was an attempt to show how foolish you think my statement was… That because I said that the Harry Potter books are good becuase they get kid to read, you attempted to draw a line between that and kids reading pornography…

That the support of one is the same as the support of the other…

So it was you who put words into my mouth, not the other way around.

First of all my comment wasn’t “sharply” directed at you. We both agree that not all things are good as long as it gets kids to read. I have no problem with you or any other fan of Harry Potter. We disagree on whether it’s good reading or not. That’s all. I apologize for seeming rude. It was not intended. When people say that it’s good as long as it gets kids to read they don’t really mean that. Many say that, though, without thinking about what that would mean. They mean most things are or some things are even if that’s not stated. I admire your spirit. As I stated in an earlier post there are well meaning, intellegent, and Godly people on both sides of the issue. I don’t fault you for being a Potter fan. I hope there are no hard feelings. I certainly don’t intend that.

 

[everlastingthur]

of further note, does Abanes ever clarify that the ‘things that people genuinely used to believe in Britain’ were real and effective, and not just folklore?

The quest is whether she did research in the occult. She claims she did not. Abanes quotes, and lists a link to a radio broadcast where she said she did.

Buy the book. Check out the link(s). This is my last post on Potter. Too many other interesting threads in the Forum.

 

[ralphinal]

agname:

Even within The Hobbit, etc…there is a grey area…from Bilbo stealing the ring, etc. Magical spells, etc…are incorporated within the story. Understand these novels are fiction.

Bilbo found the ring. By the time he found its “proper owner” the corruption had started. Evil is always punished, good rewarded, and there is room for repentance and mercy. Not so in HP Yes, spells are used, but only by a couple of characters, and none of them are cast like they are in H P.

 

[raggster]

everlastingthur:

of further note, does Abanes ever clarify that the ‘things that people genuinely used to believe in Britain’ were real and effective, and not just folklore?

The quest is whether she did research in the occult. She claims she did not. Abanes quotes, and lists a link to a radio broadcast where she said she did.

just making the reply, since the question was lifted from my post:

earlier, you quoted Abanes as stating that:

"one-third of the occult-related ideas in her books ‘are things that people genuinely used to believe in Britain’ ".

that doesn’t say that she researched the occult, it says (actually, it implies, since the entire quote from Rowling was cut; rather tricky, if you ask me) she researched “things that people genuinely used to believe in Britain.” folklore is not necessarily occult, and to conclude thus would be making a blatant generalization, which i believe is not your intention. perhaps it is Abanes’ intention, then?

 

[Monarchy]

Just out of sheer curiosity, How many here have acctualy read the books?

 

[Melissa]

I have read all five books published thus far, and am looking forward to volumes 6 & 7.

Yes, there are things which are inappropriate for some children (and even some adults). However, it is right that the final decision be left in the hands of the individual parents of particular children, rather than making a blanket statement of ‘this is horrible stuff no one should read’ or ‘this is the best children’s literature ever, and everyone should read it’. The truth, IMO, lies quite short of the latter statement, but far from the first. It’s enjoyable reading (if you like fantasy and coming-of-age stories), but it’s not great literature. As far as whether it’s a danger to anyone’s faith–well, that depends on how well-grounded his faith is, how well he can discern fantasy from reality, and whether he has a problematic past which might make reading these particular books more risky. For others, it poses no danger to their faith.

 

[Little_Mary]

agname:

Harry Potter is fiction…it’s fantasy…and it’s art. The Church usually doesn’t rule on art. JRR Tolkein (a Catholic) wrote “The Hobbit”…“Lord of the Rings”, etc.

As one priest said in Vatican City…"In each one’s childhood there have been fairy godmothers, magicians, angels and witches, which are not bad things but a help for children to understand the conflict between good and evil.”

I agree with this. If you don’t like Harry Potter, then stay away from Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, and any work of fiction/fantasy that in any way alludes to magic. (Hansel and Gretel met a witch…) Dragon Heart has a great message of selflessness.

Also, if you go looking for evil, you will find it. So don’t look for it. Just take Potter and all the rest for what they are meant to be - entertainment with a message about the conflict between good and evil. Good always wins.

 

[randall_brown]

Fidelis:

Unanimity of opinion on a subject doesn’t necessarily speak to whether that opinion is right or wrong. I suspect there is no consensus among Catholics on this issue because it there is no black and white here. Protestants (and I think you are primarily thinking about Evangelicals and Fundamentalists) tend to address moral and biblical questions in this way, but not so, for the most part, Catholics.

As a parent I can say I was very wary of these books in the beginning. My wife and I took the time to read these books ourselves to see if there were problematic elements. We take an active role in passing the faith on to our children so we are comfortable discussing things like this with them. We discussed our concerns with them (i.e., the difference between story witches and real witches, Harry’s regular defying authority, etc) so that they would not read these books in a vacuum. We will continue to monitor the stories and movies as long as they’re interested in them. Same with other outside influences.

It would be much easier to either forbid them to read the books or see the movies, or, for that matter, to let them read and watch anything they want to with no oversight by us. But we are their parents and their moral and faith formation, and education are our responsibility. We want to protect them AND help them develop critical thinking at the same time, since we won’t always be around to do it for them. There’s no substitute for involved parenting.

Fidelis _

I couldn’t agree more with involved parenting ! I’ve many friends who have children. Some of the kids have turned out bad, some good. it seems that the ones who had parents who were involved with their lives turn out better than ones who did not.

Good for you .

 

[randall_brown]

On the upside of Harry Potter, it has gotten ALOT more kids interested in reading books.

The story is meant to be fiction, and should be treated as such. I’ve heard many people compare Harry Potter to the Lord of The Rings, saying that The Lord Of The Rings is better for kids to read, because there are references to the resurrection ( Gandalf the wizard being re-born).

The downside is that some of JK Rowlings writing seems to be showing that breaking the rules are what get you ahead in life. Question: Don’t we have the same thing going on in our society right now ? Look at all the so-called “reality shows”. They have so much decietfulness happening, that if they ever showed a show where people were just being respectful of one another, it would never get aired.

My personal feeeling is that its a STORY. .period…it up to the parents to screen the books and movies, of course. Some parents i’ve talked to won’t let their kids read the books. But that’s also their right, too.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Boy ,satan is doing a wonderful job decieving the parents as well as the children. You want your children to be involved in the occult,go ahead. Give satan an opening and he will enter in. Just my oppinion.

 

[dzung]

Hello everyone,
Thank you for all your comments on this subject. It is summertime for kids. Two days ago, I saw my 10 years old son with reading a Harry Potter book be borrow from school. That’s why I’m here, reading all your comments with interests.

Coincidence or not, but I also received an email from St. Joseph Communication with “The Trouble With Harry”, a new release from Saintjoe.com:
saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=324

I am going to purchase this CD-ROM set today. Did anyone here purchased this? And if so, what is your comment on it?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

SPOKENWORD:

Boy ,satan is doing a wonderful job decieving the parents as well as the children. You want your children to be involved in the occult,go ahead. Give satan an opening and he will enter in. Just my oppinion.

I will try it one more time… :banghead: As someone who has some experience with the occult…

Nothing in the Harry Potter stories is authentic occult practices… It is a work of fiction, fantasy…

If you think it is evil then you must not allow your children to read anything else… No Shakespeare, none of the classics, nothing about greek mythology… Nothing, period… It all has elements that could be bad, even the Lord of the Rings.

A parent must be a parent and not only read what their children are reading but discuss it with them… It seems that some people here think that they can use books as babysitters just as others use the television as such.

I will also say this again, as it is important, things are not evil nor good, it is how they are used that is evil or good.

 

[Shiann]

I have fielded many questions and comments from caring relatives regarding my position on Harry Potter. I find that I am in agreement with most of the posters here who find Harry to be a work of fiction.

When answering questions from relatives who have differing opinions, I work not to sway their opinion on Harry Potter and it’s seeming link to the occult- but work to reiterate the points brought up here… that a thing (even a story) is not good or evil- it’s all in how we use it.

We have all had experience with how people of different religions and even some wayward Catholics interpret the Word of God for their own purposes- and have used the interpretation for evil. In other words, even the most Holy of books can be interpretted erroneously.

I also want to note that the story these books tell- isn’t even completed yet!

And an aside, my daughter and I were talking about how naughty Harry is, and she offered a different perspective:

Often times in the stories- it is only Harry and his friends who know the real truth, only they are in a position to make things right, and that this was like the people who knew Jesus. They followed him against friends and family and even society and culture in many examples.

(Now granted, this is a bit of a reach- but quite a different perspective on it for an 8 year old. And note she chose to find ways to insert her faith into the story- not find areas in the story to question or kill her faith.)

 

[King_s_X_Fan]

Well meaning, intelligent, and Godly people fall on both sides of the debate. A King’s X fan can’t be that bad. God bless, and once again thanks for the debate.

I sit in a chair reflecting back upon my life (reading, of course) and have so much yet to learn and so much yet to see and do it’s love that holds it all together.

%between%

 

[Arlene_Alice]

Hi, I’m new to the Catholic Answers Forum.

I am VERY distressed and bewildered that faithful Catholics have ANY confusion about the dangers of the Harry Potter series [or any occult “fantasy” books]…especially Bishops, religious leaders, Catholic teachers and communicators, WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER!

Having wandered into the nonsense of New Age back in the 70s, and “experimenting” with spiritism, pyramid power, power of positive thinking, Silva Mind Control, “white magic”, etc., I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT that there are two “spirit” worlds - one of which believers in the Trinitarian God, Father-Son-Holy Spirit - DARE NOT WANDER - for the safety of their eternal souls.

God warns us consistently about false gods in both Old and New Testaments. He warns DO NOT ENTER this world of the “dark arts” the “occult” , i.e., spiritism, sorcery, mediumship, casting spells, witchcraft, divination, necromancy, etc. Read: Deuteronomy 17 and 18. In Matthew 5:41, Jesus taught that there IS A DEVIL and real evil angels. John 8:44, John 13:2.

The Harry Potter series delves into nine of the ten “abominable” acts recorded in the Bible. That should concern every Catholic, especially parents, who should be seriously concerned about what “false gods” they expose their children to.

I bristle when I read that Catholics [who have a bad reputation of knowing nothing about the Bible] will crow about the marvelous Harry Potter series as being harmless fantasy, imaginative literature, and a beneficial tool in aiding our young ones to enjoy reading once again.

WHAT ? Have you forgotten the warnings that ANYTHING that does not give honor, glory praise to God, is to be seriously rejected? That means everything you think, say and do - including your selection of reading and entertainment.

Unfortunately, too many Catholics reason from a modernistic/secular base rather than a catechetical or Biblical base. I have wrangled with many Catholics over the Potter series; most of them think I’m radically old fashioned and out of the mainstream.

I am not a John Ankerberg [TV evangelist] fan, knowing that some of his opinions and conclusion are very questionable, very fundamentalistic and anti-Catholic. However, I have found that Ankerberg responds to the Harry Potter controversy with scriptural reasoning and clear direction. It is most unfortunate that most Catholic sources have failed us in this way. I would recommend that you visit his web site and click on the Harry Potter resources he posts: www.JohnAnkerberg.com

Look up the Biblical quotes he offers, the warnings he gives to avoid being spiritually un-informed about the subject of the occult, and then ask yourself…Why would I want to subject my child to something that God calls an “abomination” unto His Divine Being?

Think about it - and don’t be “confused” anymore.

Arlene Alice

 

[TheGrowingGrape]

My Dad really loves Harry Potter. In my heathen days, before I became a Catholic, I liked it, too. I’ve read the first three books, and half of the fourth book. (The fourth book got weird, so I put it away).

I wasn’t going to see Harry Potter on my own, but my Dad is visiting for the weekend, and he really loves it. So we went to see it yesterday.

I must say, I didn’t like it. Here are my criticisms:
1). It teaches kids to respond to enemies “eye for an eye” rather than “love your neighbor.”
2) In the earlier movies, the “magic” presented was not really related to real Wicca stuff. In the earlier films, they had stuff like jelly beans that tasted like ear wax. Or maybe a hat that talked when it was on your head. Light stuff. Funny stuff. But this time they presented stuff like reading tea leaves, which is real! Also they presented “incantations,” which is real. They also had a reference to palmistry, which is real. They also had the introduction of werewolves (which isn’t real in my opinion, but it is real in folklore).
3) Also, the movie presents good witches and bad witches, when in reality, there is no such thing. All witches are evil.

The films started out light and funny. The first movie and book was alright. The second movie and book got a little darker, but was still OK. This one has crossed the line for me.

Oh, and why did I put down the Fourth book? It started out with someone being murdered, and then had Harry Potter in a witch camp/gathering for the first 300 pages!

I say ‘Two thumbs down.’ Not good. Suffice to say, I’ve gotten rid of all my Harry Potter books.

I agree with you, Arlene Alice. Harry Potter is dangerous.