How and why to pray through Mary?

[paramedicgirl]

The Lord Jesus teaches His us to pray to the Father, this is the “point” I’m making. So why would the Lord Jesus mention anything about praying to the Father through Mary when He teaches us to pray to the Father. The Lord Jesus didn’t teach us to pray to the Father through a saint or Mary, He taught us to pray to the Father.

Yes I’m praying to God for people on this earth. The Bible doesn’t teach Christians to ask people who have departed from this earth to help them.

My objection to praying to God through Mary is that God hasn’t told His children to do this. I do like Mary, she is a sister in Christ and as it is written in Gods word she is blessed. What a blessing she had to be given Gods favor in giving birth to the Blessed Lord Jesus. Mary is blessed because of the Blessed Lord Jesus and not because of who she is.

.

The Bible does teach us to pray for the intercession of the saints. Take a look at the Epistle of St Paul to the Ephesians, Chapter 6:18 By all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the spirit; and in the same watching with all instance and supplication for all the saints:

There are several instances in the Bible where the angels act as intercessors before God: Tobias 12:12 When thou didst pray with tears, and didst bury the dead, and didst leave thy dinner, and hide the dead by day in thy house, and bury them by night, I offered thy prayer to the Lord.

and Revelation 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints

“The prayers of saints”… Here we see that the saints in heaven offer up to Christ the prayers of the faithful upon earth.

 

[revelations]

I do like Mary, she is a sister in Christ and as it is written in Gods word she is blessed. What a blessing she had to be given Gods favor in giving birth to the Blessed Lord Jesus. Mary is blessed because of the Blessed Lord Jesus and not because of who she is.
.

This expounds the misunderstanding, Mary isn’t another follower of Christ, like our other brothers and sisters in Christ, she is His mother. Her relationship with Jesus is completely and utterly different from anything any of us could even begin to try to understand.

In the words of God, Mary is blessed for hearing and obeying the word of God. Not for having had the privilege of giving birth to Jesus, Lord and God.
*Luke chapter 11:
*

• 27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” *
• 28He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”*

The word of God has directly contradicted what you have said. Mary is blessed not because of Jesus Christ, but because of her Fiat, or “let it be done unto me as is God’s will”.

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by Deeda58
Because when you pay for a MASS for a person it is to pray for that person’s soul. I’m a former Catholic. They even had me pray one whole morning in my Catholic School for my uncle who had died years before…to pray him OUT OF HADES INTO HEAVEN.

I know what I’m talking about. I just had a woman pay for a MASS for my Mother’s soul last year, and she sent my Dad the prayer card calling for mercy on his soul…to Mother Mary.

As if that mass…or their prayers could change a thing about her whereabouts.

Thank God she was already born again…so that prayer card didn’t decide her location. I realize that her friend MEANT WELL…and did it out of LOVE for my Mom…but she is MISGUIDED BY HER LEADERS…very sad to say.

Linda
Arizona

**I am sorry to say that I don’t believe a word you have typed here. I don’t know of any Catholic parish that is so illiterate of the Faith, and that goes throughout the country.

First, you don’t pray a soul out of Hades. Hades is Hell. It is not praying for a soul to persevere through a purification after death which the Church refers to as a purgatory experience. And that is what our prayers are for, for those souls experiencing purification - for their perseverence on their way to Heaven.

Second, you don’t ‘pay’ for a Mass. You ‘pay’ for the use of the church building and donation for the priest. If the priest is a member of a religious order, he does not get a salary and relies solely on the good will offering of those who request his services.

Third, there is nothing wrong in entrusting the soul of your mother to maternal love of Mary, who is our spiritual mother and mother of the Church. She leads everyone to Her Son.

Fourth, I don’t think you’ve ever been a Catholic at all because you display absolutely no knowledge of what the Church teaches. If at one time you were, it must have been at a very young age, or that your family were never practicing Catholic Christians. **

 

[revelations]

I am curious about something.

I would like to know why so many people who could be out increasing in virtue, or helping others in need, or praying, are so intent on knocking down the importance of the blessed mother. I post here out of principle to defend the beliefs that I hold to be true, and very dear to my heart.

What drives others who disagree to come here and argue about the unique aspects of our faith? Seriously, what does it matter if we do pray people out of hell into heaven (WE DONT) What does it matter to you guys if we have statues in OUR churches at which attendance is optional? What does it matter if we pray and meditate the rosary? What is the big deal?

What i’m getting at is why does it bother you so much what the rest of us do?

I am seriously interested in knowing the motivations and reasons behind all those who post here in defiance of practices which are not being forced upon them, which have no bearing or effect on their day to day business, but who are so adamant on defaming and down talking fellow Christians by baptism.

I implore all to not respond until we have some answers in regard to these things.

What are your motivations? (those who insist on contesting and arguing the Catholic faith)

 

[Deeda58]

**ALLHERS…

You said…The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, “Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!” (Ps. 148:1-2).
catholic.com/library/Pray…the_Saints.asp

(emeraldisle, do you have any idea how St. Paul died?)**

You’ve got that way out of context…where you got that born again believers are to ask those in heaven to PRAY with us from the above verse is kind of shocking…actually. Read in other parts of the bible who the “ministers” are that do his will…and all his hosts…these are MINISTERING ANGELS…all this verse is saying is ALL HIS ANGELS…PRAISE HIM FROM THE HEAVENS….it’s saying NOTHING about us PRAYING TO THEM. Where did the meaning come from that you said? Did you perhaps write out the wrong verse?

Linda
Arizona

---

 

[Deeda58]

ALLHERS…

Were you aware that many of the Psalms were part of the songbook that the Jewish people used? They were singing “Praise Him… everyone praise Him…all you host…praise Him…the ministering Angels from Heaven…praise Him”…

It’s not the only psalm that it’s been sung in. No mention of “praying to them” just “praise Him”…

Linda
Arizona

 

[Deeda58]

GJx86…I did give one…above…had to eat dinner…sorry!

When they asked Jesus HOW TO PRAY…He didn’t say to PRAY TO MY MOTHER MARY OR THE SAINTS WHO’VE GONE BEFORE YOU…

He said to pray along these lines…“Our FATHER…Who art in Heaven…hallowed be YOUR NAME…etc.”

Don’t you think that if they asked "show us how to pray…and if it was important to ask others who’ve gone before…that He would have made that known?

Read the ENTIRE CHAPTER OF JOHN 17…He said that we would come to understand that HE IS IN US…AND WE ARE IN HIM, AND HE IS IN THE FATHER…etc.

We’re told to ask THE FATHER…in His name…and it shall be given to us.

And now the verse that I’d like to give you…

Phillipians 4:6 – "Be anxious for nothing, but in EVERYTHING by PRAYER and SUPPLICATION…let your REQUEST BE MADE KNOWN TO GOD…and the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard your hearts and minds IN CHRIST JESUS.

There you go…now I would like YOU to share with me the verse that speaks of praying the Hail Mary with beads to Mary.

I’ll await your reply…I know you’ll be able to go right to it…as you should as a minister of the word…rightly dividing it. I did what you asked…now please do the same. Greatly appreciated. I would like to know so that I can share it with my friends.

Linda
Arizona

 

[revelations]

Deeda,

i don’t think you fully comprehend the Catholic viewpoint on these things.

I will directly state for you that no where in the bible does it say to ask others in heaven to pray for us, or to ask for intercession. No where, not one verse. I agree with you 100%.

But your reliance purely on the word of scripture is severely limited as it disregards hundreds of years of history, countless healing and miracles, as well as the many apparitions of the blessed virgin around the world which would suggest that she is a major player in the history of salvation.

All you who follow solely the bible and word of scripture are much like the pharisees and sadducees who argued over meanings of scripture while ignoring the call to love God in our hearts rather than in our brains. They argued and read into things so much that they forgot that spirituality is in the heart, and they didn’t even recognize Jesus when he came. Is the man who gives all he has to the poor and follows the commandments of God, but who also prays for Mary’s intercession, not worthy of heaven?

From a Catholic standpoint you have no authority to interpret, or to teach from scripture. I am sure most of us Catholic’s here cannot understand why you have so much resentment towards fellow Christians (as we are all baptized into the passion of the Lord, we are bound to him), and most of us are responding in the hopes that a seed might be planted.

There are much bigger things to worry about in this world than our prayer habits. And when the big day comes, all truths will be revealed.

Until then,

“love they God, and love they neighbour”, as commanded by the Lord.

-revelations

 

[revelations]

GJx86…I did give one…above…had to eat dinner…sorry!

When they asked Jesus HOW TO PRAY…He didn’t say to PRAY TO MY MOTHER MARY OR THE SAINTS WHO’VE GONE BEFORE YOU…

He said to pray along these lines…“Our FATHER…Who art in Heaven…hallowed be YOUR NAME…etc.”

Don’t you think that if they asked "show us how to pray…and if it was important to ask others who’ve gone before…that He would have made that known?

Read the ENTIRE CHAPTER OF JOHN 17…He said that we would come to understand that HE IS IN US…AND WE ARE IN HIM, AND HE IS IN THE FATHER…etc.

We’re told to ask THE FATHER…in His name…and it shall be given to us.

And now the verse that I’d like to give you…

Phillipians 4:6 – "Be anxious for nothing, but in EVERYTHING by PRAYER and SUPPLICATION…let your REQUEST BE MADE KNOWN TO GOD…and the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard your hearts and minds IN CHRIST JESUS.

There you go…now I would like YOU to share with me the verse that speaks of praying the Hail Mary with beads to Mary.

I’ll await your reply…I know you’ll be able to go right to it…as you should as a minister of the word…rightly dividing it. I did what you asked…now please do the same. Greatly appreciated. I would like to know so that I can share it with my friends.

Linda
Arizona

Your militant disrespect for the mother of our Lord is seriously troubling. I will pray for you.

 

[Deeda58]

**Matthew 12:46-50

"While he was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. someone said to Hm, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers? And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My MOTHER and My brothers!” For whoever does the will of My Father Who is in Heaven, he is My brother and sister and MOTHER.”**

Wow…He kind of dissed his own family there…even His mother, Mary. He said right there that whoever does His Father’s will is His brother…His sister…and His Mother.

So I guess it’s the same for us…that would mean that Mary isn’t the MOTHER OF THE CHURCH…but anyone who does the will of the Father.

Written IN RED…Christ’s words…not mine.

Linda
Arizona

 

[LilyM]

**ALLHERS…

You said…The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, “Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!” (Ps. 148:1-2).
catholic.com/library/Pray…the_Saints.asp**

(emeraldisle, do you have any idea how St. Paul died?)

You’ve got that way out of context…where you got that born again believers are to ask those in heaven to PRAY with us from the above verse is kind of shocking…actually. Read in other parts of the bible who the “ministers” are that do his will…and all his hosts…these are MINISTERING ANGELS…all this verse is saying is ALL HIS ANGELS…PRAISE HIM FROM THE HEAVENS….it’s saying NOTHING about us PRAYING TO THEM. Where did the meaning come from that you said? Did you perhaps write out the wrong verse?

Linda
Arizona

---

And yet in the same Psalms (Psalm 150) we read that we are to praise God IN His saints, not just with them, or not just Him and ignore them. The saints themselves, being made in His image and being part of His body, are both reflections of His glory and conduits through whom we praise Him. Rather like an artist takes any praise of their artwork as praise of themselves, since in a sense they put themselves into that work.

 

[revelations]

Linda, you have a deep misunderstanding. This was already stated many posts back, i brought up the passage in Luke chapter 11 verse 27, when Jesus says “rather blessed are those who do the will of God”

Mary still remains as the mother of the church because she gave birth to Jesus who is the head of all Christian churches. In this way she is the mother.

What you posted is in complete agreement with the passage from Luke chapter 11.

MARY IS BLESSED BECAUSE SHE DOES THE WILL OF GOD, NOT BECAUSE SHE GAVE BIRTH TO GOD.

This is the catholic teaching which you have already stated yourself. You are arguing the catholic viewpoint.

 

[LilyM]

**Matthew 12:46-50

"While he was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. someone said to Hm, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers? And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My MOTHER and My brothers!” For whoever does the will of My Father Who is in Heaven, he is My brother and sister and MOTHER.”**

Wow…He kind of dissed his own family there…even His mother, Mary. He said right there that whoever does His Father’s will is His brother…His sister…and His Mother.

So I guess it’s the same for us…that would mean that Mary isn’t the MOTHER OF THE CHURCH…but anyone who does the will of the Father.

Written IN RED…Christ’s words…not mine.

Linda
Arizona

It disturbs me that you think Jesus would ever break the third/fourth commandment by dishonouring His mother in even the slightest way - that would make him a miserable sinner and no Son to God.

He is simply praising the fact that Mary, along with all her other virtues, was obedient to God, did His will, in an exceptional degree, and pointing out the importance of the fact that she did so.

 

[revelations]

It disturbs me that you think Jesus would ever break the third/fourth commandment by dishonouring His mother in even the slightest way - that would make him a miserable sinner and no Son to God.
.

I am also quite disturbed how a professed follower of Christ can have such a staunch disrespect and discourteous attitude towards the mother of our Lord. I would even go so far as to say it’s a demonic spirit!

On the final day when we all go up for judgment the Lord will be there with God the Father, and we will have to answer for everything we do. Linda, i implore you to rethink your position on this, or at least to tone down the offensiveness of your post. I personally don’t care what you believe, but I can only imagine what you might have to answer for on the last day, and i implore you.

 

[Deeda58]

DEBCHRIS…we are not called to venerate the saints…etc.

When they tried to “venerate” Paul…he put them straight…as did Peter in the book of Acts when they tried to “venerate” the apostles. They would NOT receive veneration. Paul said that he knew NOTHING but Christ…and HIM CRUCIFIED.

We are told to IMITATE the FAITH…of Paul and the others who’ve gone before…not IMITATE THEM. Kept in context…even John the Baptist said HE WAS NOT WORTHY TO UNTIE CHRIST’S SANDALS…

Worthy is THE LORD…to receive glory and honor and praise… and Paul said that he could do all things THROUGH CHRIST Who strengthened him…"

so any veneration he wanted to go to CHRIST…who was his life.

**Paul said, “For me to live IS CHRIST!” Philippians 1:21 (therefore, if it’s Christ’s life…and none of Paul…the give the glory to God…not Paul).
**

Read Acts where they tried to begin worshipping the apostles… they put them down right away…(paraphrasing) saying, “stop it!”

I will look up the verse if you’d like…it would be better if you read Acts though…a great read…the history of the church…written by the historian, Luke.

Linda
Arizona

 

[revelations]

Read Acts where they tried to begin worshipping the apostles… they put them down right away…(paraphrasing) saying, “stop it!”

Linda
Arizona

Yes, you are 100% correct. They regarded Paul as God himself, the considered him to have God like powers and qualities when truly it was Christ working through Paul.

But we don’t regard Mary as God…nor do we regard any of the saints as God. I could just as easily argue that when one attends a non-denominational worship service and they only attend when a certain band is playing, that they are worshipping that band and their music. Worshipping and honoring/venerating are completely different things.

Everyone has a different spiritual requirement.

 

[CradleCath]

Please show where the Church teaches that God must be ‘softened up’. TIA

Why in the world do you keep asking the same questions, using the same phrase? You were given the answer that God taught us that Mary’s intercession is of great value at the Wedding in Cana. Since then you’ve repeated the question above at least 6 times & no NEW answers have been offered. Perhaps you need to rephrase your question.

Also - using your items – it would seem God worked through his issues of justice vs mercy without us interfering.

Versus is defined as
1.against
2. in contrast to

Justice is never AGAINST or in contrast to mercy. In fact, without justice there can be no mercy. God is filled to the brim with both, justice is part of Who He is, as is mercy. The only thing that some seem to find worrisome is, that God says in order to receive mercy…one must admit his/her sins & do one’s very best not to commit them again. Ususally, because of the graces of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, one can do this. THEN one receives mercy, after God’s sense of justice has been satisfied.

For instance…if one posts in these forums strictly to agitate & argue, to disrupt & question…with no purpose of learning or teaching… he/she would be subject to the justice of God. Only when said person asked God’s forgiveness for entering a place where Catholics gather to share their faith, to learn, to voice their opinion in a Christ-like way…for reasons that are less than honorable, one would have to experience sorrow for their actions & vow to stop doing this. THEN comes God’s mercy.

 

[Deeda58]

When the woman said “blessed” is the woman who bore you, etc." we must come to understand what the WORD blessed means. In today’s venacular it would be “happy is the woman who bore you.”

It does not mean that she is above any other believer in Christ… she was used of God, yes, to enter this world…but Jesus said the FIRST WOULD BE LAST…AND THE LAST FIRST.

Read the verses I quoted above…where Jesus answered those who said His mother and brothers were outside…He waved His hand toward all those there and said, “Who is my brother and sisters and mother? it is those who do the will of My Father.”

He did not show veneration to His mother in front of all those people. Although He most assuredly loved His mother…He put His Church above her…His Body of Saints…whom he would indwell.

We forget that to be saved is to be BORN AGAIN of Christ’s RISEN SPIRIT. So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul…the last Adam became a LIFE-GIVING Spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

We see the RISEN CHRIST giving His Spirit in the upper room after His resurrection in John 20:22. He came to BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT as John the Baptist said.

Mary was from the earth as Adam was…only Jesus is from Heaven…and has come down. He is GOD…the Son…the Second Person of the Godhead…God the Father…God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. One God…three distinct Persons. And Mary is not one of them!

Linda

 

[CradleCath]

ROLLTIDE SAID THE FOLLOWING:

"See if the following passage sounds familiar:

 

[revelations]

Linda,

i am interested to hear your interpretation of John 19:25-28:

• 25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. *
• 26When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! *
• 27Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.*

And again with the born again stuff. I have had a “born again” moment when i deeply and profoundly encountered God in my life, just after I had prayed a hail mary and asked her to guide me to her son. Which she did rather promptly. Mary played a large part in my turn around in life, for my end of sin, and for my profound encounter with Jesus.

Being saved happens when you are baptized of water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is when God claims you as his own. I know of “born again” christians who claim they dont have to be baptized because it’s a practice of man. How can you explain that?

Finally, can you show me in the bible where it talks about the trinity? Or the rapture? Or even Jesus’ nature as God? The bible is not a complete how to manual.

Besides, the hail mary prayer is straight from the bible:

Luke 1:28 (KJV):
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1:42 (KJV):
42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43And whence is this to me, that the **mother of my Lord **should come to me?

Luke 1:48(KJV):
48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth** all generations shall call me blessed.**

Now let’s look at the hail mary prayer:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the lord is with thee. [so far so good, all from scripture]
Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of they womb [again from scripture]

Holy Mary, mother of God [scripture] pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

I don’t really see the problem in honoring Mary by reciting verses of sacred scripture?