How and why to pray through Mary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter iaskquestions
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Lord Jesus teaches His us to pray to the Father, this is the “point” I’m making. So why would the Lord Jesus mention anything about praying to the Father through Mary when He teaches us to pray to the Father. The Lord Jesus didn’t teach us to pray to the Father through a saint or Mary, He taught us to pray to the Father.

Yes I’m praying to God for people on this earth. The Bible doesn’t teach Christians to ask people who have departed from this earth to help them.

My objection to praying to God through Mary is that God hasn’t told His children to do this. I do like Mary, she is a sister in Christ and as it is written in Gods word she is blessed. What a blessing she had to be given Gods favor in giving birth to the Blessed Lord Jesus. Mary is blessed because of the Blessed Lord Jesus and not because of who she is.

.
I’m glad you like Mary. I don’t know your background or christian training but you are seriously undermining the Blessed Virgin by saying she is a “sister in Christ”. She is His Mother thus the mother of us all.

No where in the Bible does it say only follow what is written. Remember, the Catholic Church came first way before the Bible. Tradition that Catholics keep have been around for 2000 years. Alot of our tradition is due to the early church fathers and what they learned directly from the aposles.

Without the Catholic Church, christian understanding of the bible is flawed and misinterpeted. Thus, the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
Why in the world do you keep asking the same questions, using the same phrase? You were given the answer that God taught us that Mary’s intercession is of great value at the Wedding in Cana. Since then you’ve repeated the question above at least 6 times & no NEW answers have been offered. Perhaps you need to rephrase your question.
I believe those who have answered thought a different question was asked - like those who have been pushing other issues regarding the BVM in this thread that were never part of the starting post for this thread.

So long as some answer everything except what was ask I can and will repeat my question. Wedding at Cana does not show that God needs to be softened up plus no one has one piece of official Church teaching that says he does. Jesus does not say God needs to be softened up nor does he tell us he needs it.
 
LILY…you always ask everyone to give YOU scripture…to back it up…PLEASE BACK UP YOUR ASSERTIONS…

I’ve written out my verses…now show me the verse where it EXPLICITY says to PRAY TO MARY…WITH BEADS…and TO the Saints…to have THEM ask Jesus there in Heaven for us.

This should be an easy response…if it’s biblical. If it’s not, and it’s simply TRADITION…the say so. And then show me how the tradition began…from the beginning as I’ve read on this thread many go away back to the original council or whatever…

Show me where to look…write it out…so that I can see it. I answered with EXACT verses…read above…

Please quit stalling…you go all around the issue every time. Please show the verse EXPLICITY about Praying TO MARY FOR JESUS…and I don’t want an IMPLICATION of it from the miracle at Cana’s wedding. It never says to PRAY TO MARY with beads…

and…then again…when you confess your sins to the priest, which I did, and he says…“go and say ten hail mary’s to be absolved…” which was a common practice…

Show me that verse…how saying HAIL MARY’S absolve us of sin…

You’re always saying we’re ignorant of scripture…by all means… teach us…show us…give us texts…verses…

Thank you. I don’t think it’s a request that is out of line…you all asked the same, and I gave it straight up. Read through the thread…I can reprint the post if you need me to.

Linda
Arizona
 
Linda you have been deeply confused about the catholic faith.

Also, you too are ignoring my posts.

We pray hail mary’s not to be absolved of sin, that is ridiculous. When the priest gives you absolution that is when you are absolved. Praying Hail Mary’s helps heal the wounds of sin, that remain even in the state of grace.

I’ve already told you twice (scroll up) that you wont find it anywhere in the bible to ask for mary’s prayers, or to pray the rosary. It aint in there. We are just trying to accommodate the limited view of scripture only (sola scriptura) by giving you examples from the bible. Please read my last post, where i gave plenty of examples from scripture;s

To answer your question, it’s not in the bible. It is part of the sacred tradition of our faith, and bible doesn’t contradict it, because the bible was put together by the very same people that declared these doctrines.
 
I believe those who have answered thought a different question was asked - like those who have been pushing other issues regarding the BVM in this thread that were never part of the starting post for this thread.

So long as some answer everything except what was ask I can and will repeat my question. Wedding at Cana does not show that God needs to be softened up plus no one has one piece of official Church teaching that says he does. Jesus does not say God needs to be softened up nor does he tell us he needs it.
This is what I think “softened up” means and I have read this a lot in books about apparitions of the Blessed Virgin. With all the sin in the world and indifference to God, the time for repentence is slowly ebbing away. His patience is at it’s limits but due to Our Blessed Mother, she intercedes for us her children to allow more time for the world to return to Our Lord. This probably has to do with upcoming catastrophes but all of this is off topic.

Mary’s role is powerful and she is someone I love with all my heart.
 
E-Maura…I concur…I keep hearing about the wedding at Cana… and all Mary did was tell them “do what He tells you to do…”

She had FAITH that He would do what she asked…that’s all. After all, he was her son…she should know him…right?

She didn’t INTERCEDE for prayers here…the CONTEXT is a wedding…they ran out of wine…Mary asked Jesus to make more wine…(obviously she’d seen him do other miracles in his 30 some odd years at that point…) How you get out of that that we’re to ASK MARY FOR ALL OUR PRAYERS TO JESUS is a REAL STRETCH if you ask me.

Its reading INTO this one story a whole host of other meanings… when prayer is never even mentioned.

Where prayer IS MENTIONED…when they asked Jesus HOW TO PRAY…and He teaches them to pray along the lines of the OUR FATHER…they don’t want to hear that.

To pray to the Father in Jesus’ name…it’s not good enough.

And then again in Philippians 4:6…“Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by PRAYER AND SUPPLICATION with thanksgiving let your request be made KNOWN TO GOD…and the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

I see nothing there about asking Mary or the Saints who are asleep in the Lord to pray TO GOD FOR US…we’re told to pray to the Father…isn’t that funny? Paul said what Jesus said… pray to the FATHER…God…

There’s my verse. I would appreciate the verse about praying to Mary with beads…the same rote prayer over and over…“Hail mary full of grace…” etc. No change…just the same prayer with each bead…as if Jesus who is alive…enjoys hearing ROTE prayers…which if you read near where He taught them the OUR FATHER…He said NOT TO PRAY AS THE HEATHEN DO…the same prayers over and over.

It’s right there…no one is changing scripture. Please REVEAL the scripture…the EXPLICIT scripture that states we are to have Mary ASK JESUS…so that we will experience God’s peace… as stated above…if we are anxious.

And please don’t use the OUT OF CONTEXT argument about the wedding at Cana. That’s a SAD example of stretching verses to mean what YOU want them to mean.

Linda
Arizona
 
This is what I think “softened up” means and I have read this a lot in books about apparitions of the Blessed Virgin. With all the sin in the world and indifference to God, the time for repentence is slowly ebbing away. His patience is at it’s limits but due to Our Blessed Mother, she intercedes for us her children to allow more time for the world to return to Our Lord. This probably has to do with upcoming catastrophes but all of this is off topic.

Mary’s role is powerful and she is someone I love with all my heart.
Private apparitions are not official Church teaching and do not answer my question.
 
Deeda,

are you ignoring my posts? I have posed a number of questions to you as well as answered many of your own.
 
If we are going to address the issue of beads, where did they come from? We live in a literate age thanks to the invention of the printing press. Before that only the rich could afford books or had the liesure to read. The peasants in their desire to give praise to God listened as the monks recited the 150 psalms of the Bible. It is they who began by first reciting 150 Pater Nostras (Our Fathers). They used stones to keep count. But carrying stones can be awkard and they put them together on a string. That is how we have the “beads.”
Over time, the 150 Pater Nostras were replaced by the Hail Mary and broken into decades with an Our Father and Doxology (“Glory to God”) marking the beginning and end of each decade.
The rosary is therefore a prayer form with a grassroots development, not the other way around.
It is Pope John Paul II who added the Luminous Mysteries bringing the number of Hail Marys recited to 200.
Even before then, in both the Western and Eastern Orthodox Church, Mary has been venerated in art. The saints likewise have been venerated by our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters.
Jesus beads are used to lead a person into comtemplation using the words of the blind man “Jesus, son of David have mercy on me, a sinner.”
 
It’s right there…no one is changing scripture. Please REVEAL the scripture…the EXPLICIT scripture that states we are to have Mary ASK JESUS…so that we will experience God’s peace… as stated above…if we are anxious.
The problem that we have, and that we are never going to be able to breech here it seems, is that of Sola Scriptura. Catholics and Orthodox believe that the Bible is a starting point for belief, but that it is equal in importance to sacred tradition. Although most Catholic beliefs are found explicitly in the Bible, and the rest are implicit, it really doesn’t matter if they are in there or not, as long as the practices do not CONTRADICT the Bible, which they do not.

Now, with regard to your quote above, please REVEAL the scripture… the EXPLICIT scripture that states that there is a Trinity.

Of course, this is a loaded question. There isn’t one. There are many that imply it, but that’s not enough. You need tradition and interpretation to come to that conclusion. Don’t believe me? Just look at the early church. If the Trinity is so obvious, then why were there SO many problems in the early church with Docetism, Gnosticism, and Arianism, ALL of which denied the Trinity. This belief (and interpretation) was only codified at the Council of Nicea. Sounds like the working of Sacred Tradition to me…

The role of Mary and the Saints works in precisely the same way.
 
Revelations…let me answer each question at a time…I will write out your question first…then respond with SCRIPTURE…and give you the verses…it will not be my own answers. How’s that? Let’s just speak in Scripture…okay?

Rev asked: **Being saved happens when you are baptized of water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is when God claims you as his own. I know of “born again” christians who claim they dont have to be baptized because it’s a practice of man. How can you explain that? **

John 1:25-34…please read those verses…it holds your answer. John came baptizing with water…he said in vs. 31 that He did not recognize Jesus (the Messiah) but in order that he might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in WATER…then in vs. 33, he reiterates…I did not recognize Him…but He who sent me to bapitize in water said to me, “He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him…this is the ONE WHO BAPTIZES IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.”

Then go to I Corinthians 15:45…The Second Adam (Jesus) became a LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT.

John 20:22…Then he breathed on them (in the upper room) and said, (after His resurrection) receive ye the HOLY SPIRIT.

Remember…Jesus told them to wait for the PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT…He said it’s good that I go away otherwise He will not come.

I want to bring forth a verse right now…to get it out in the open, also…while I’m reading it…it pertains to PRAYER…humor me, please…and let me interject this here…

In John 16:23 Jesus said "And in that day you will ask Me no question. Truly truly I say to you if you shall ask THE FATHER for anything, He will give it to you IN MY NAME…

vs. 24 – Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask, and you will receive that your joy may be made full.

vs. 26 – In that day you will ask in My ame, and I DO NOT SAY O YOU THAT I WILL REQUEST THE FATHER ON YOUR BEHALF…

vs. 27 – for the Father HIMSELF LOVES YOU, because you have loved Me…and have believed that I came forth from the Father.

Jesus said we ask the Father DIRECTLY…and even He does not ask Him on our behalf…

Because THE FATHER LOVES US…we ask the Father IN JESUS’ NAME…and we receive…

I will continue my answers to Revelations questions tomorrow when I can look up the verses and share them. I do not want to give a reply that is OF MEN…but from Scripture. I will look this thread up again tomorrow.

God bless,
Linda
Arizona
 
Matt 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

** Mark 16:16**
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
**
Acts 2:38**
38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Baptism is a necessary condition for salvation. You have to be baptized first to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. If you aren’t baptized, you ARENT SAVED.
 
CRADLECATH…

With reference to the miracle of water to wine…at the wedding in Cana…

Where does it say that Mary Insisted? She didn’t INSIST Jesus do it…she simply told the men to go fill the pots with water. Where do you get this stuff? You ADD to the meaning of scripture.

Jesus, being full of grace and truth, DID IT BECAUSE OF WHO HE IS…not because Mary INSISTED. You’ve stretched scripture to meet our argument.

Read my verse above about praying to the dead…

You’ve also forgotten about Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham… and the rich man…he wanted to GO BACK TO EARTH and WARN HIS BROTHERS…but Abraham said there was a chasm…and it could not be broken. Besides, he said…if they didn’t believe moses…why would they believe you?

That story shows that there is NO COMMUNICATION between those on the other side of the chasm…and us. Satan would like you to believe there is…so he can keep your eyes off of Jesus, and praying to Him and the Father…he doesn’t care where your eyes are…as long as they’re OFF OF JESUS!

Linda
Arizona
If you do not yet have a relationship with Christ that enables you to take Scripture into your daily life, break it down & ask how would this happen today…what would the words sound like…what was happening here, in this case at Cana, & how would it appear in today’s world, I am sorry for you.

BTW., I think that it’s quite amusing when you “born again” non-Catholics try to debate scripture with us. You see, we WROTE it. Yep. The words Christian & Catholic were synonymus for 15 HUNDRED years. The Catholic Church was the only Christian Church. When the evangelists, Mathew, Mark, Luke & John left their Jewish faith & became Christians…followers of Christ, they also became Catholics, as did St. Paul. 😉
 
E-Maura…I concur…I keep hearing about the wedding at Cana… and all Mary did was tell them “do what He tells you to do…”

She had FAITH that He would do what she asked…that’s all. After all, he was her son…she should know him…right?

She didn’t INTERCEDE for prayers here…the CONTEXT is a wedding…they ran out of wine…Mary asked Jesus to make more wine…(obviously she’d seen him do other miracles in his 30 some odd years at that point…) How you get out of that that we’re to ASK MARY FOR ALL OUR PRAYERS TO JESUS is a REAL STRETCH if you ask me.

Its reading INTO this one story a whole host of other meanings… when prayer is never even mentioned.
No, that’s not all she did. Think, apply your brain, just a little, to the bare bones we’re given of the story. Firstly - Mary knew that the couple had run out of wine. How? You think they went about broadcasting it for ALL the guests to know? If so, why didn’t any of the others go to Jesus - they all knew He was special by then, after all, they’d been at the Baptism. So no, it wasn’t because they told everyone.

You think Mary found out by accident - say, barging uninvited into the kitchens? Again, nix. Firstly because a polite guest doesn’t barge into the kitchens, secondly because the servants listened to HER when she told them to listen to Jesus. You need to think about why they would do that.

Stands to reason she must’ve found out BECAUSE either the groom himself or one of the servants actually approached her for help - possibly because it was her son and his hangers-on who were the ones who’d drunk them dry? In which case it makes perfect sense that they would tell the other servants to listen to HER - of course she in her turn told 'em to listen to Jesus.

But the point is, it’s virtually certain that someone actually DID directly approach Mary for help, probably knowing that she would go to Jesus. So we can be bold to do the same.

There’s a neat little line in Luke - after Jesus’ birth, the shepherds and Magi are recorded as having ‘found the child WITH His mother’. She was there at his birth, she was there at His death, she was almost certainly there at every other point in between. Why would we ever find Him anywhere else than with His mother?
 
God will not be ‘softened up’ to give us something it was not his will to do anyway - not like the description of being afraid of asking dad for what you want.
Please show me where the Church teaches that God does not respond to the intercession of Mary & the Saints. Where these people are not allowed/are incapable of, as you describe so ineptly as “softening up” God as He looks at my Sins. :nope:
 
Please show me where the Church teaches that God does not respond to the intercession of Mary & the Saints. Where these people are not allowed/are incapable of, as you describe so ineptly as “softening up” God as He looks at my Sins. :nope:
No need as no one, especially not me, has taken that position.

God was incorrectly, and inappropriately, described as a father that if you needed something you had to have someone else plead your case to get anywhere. THAT is where my comments have been directed all through this thread.
 
I believe those who have answered thought a different question was asked - like those who have been pushing other issues regarding the BVM in this thread that were never part of the starting post for this thread.

No. Your question has been answered. The fact that you rejected this answer means nothing. Well, it might mean that you just can’t comprehend subleties. Here, AGAIN, is the answer & If you STILL can’t undestand what actually happened at Cana, then the problem is within you:

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JOHN

Chapter 2

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.
3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
4** (And) Jesus said to her, **“Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.”/******B]5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.” **
6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.
7 Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it.
9 And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom
10 and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
So long as some answer everything except what was ask I can and will repeat my question. Wedding at Cana does not show that God needs to be softened up plus no one has one piece of official Church teaching that says he does. Jesus does not say God needs to be softened up nor does he tell us he needs it
 
No. Your question has been answered. The fact that you rejected this answer means nothing. Well, it might mean that you just can’t comprehend subleties. Here, AGAIN, is the answer & If you STILL can’t undestand what actually happened at Cana, then the problem is within you:
 
+JMJ+

God doesn’t need “softening up”… lol.

🙂

But the Lord did chose to have his mother demonstrate how intercession (in particular, his mother) works, and here there is no debate, that is precisely what happened at the Wedding Feast.

So the question to be asked is, Why did GOD chose this way? As Catholics, we believe truly that the Bible is the word of the Holy Spirit. And, we know that the Holy Spirit shows us many examples of intercessory prayer.

Here is a question for you: do you not believe in asking for other people to pray for something with you or for you? Then why should we not pray to those whom we know are in Heaven?

But back to the first question: Why did God chose to show us that the Blessed Virgin Mother made intecession at the Wedding Feast? Ans.: because not only is she the most perfect creation of God, but it is a first step towards humility (in knowing our place in relation to God) to go to someone who IS HOLY to pray on our behalf, rather than be so presumptuous when we approach Him. Yes, we should be confident when praying to our Lord, but confidence is not always ordered to God, and is often disordered. True confidence in Christ is rooted in humility.
 
Matt 6:7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their (J)many words.
8"So do not be like them; for **your Father **knows what you need before you ask Him. 9 "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 'Your kingdom come Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. 11 'Give us this day our daily bread. 12 'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’

This template on how to Pray, given to us from the Lord, shows that prayer to our Heavenly Father is the only sanctioned model…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top