How to confront Catholic antisemitism?

[Usagi]

Ok but what makes it “anti-Semitic” - which we regard as a special kind evil behaviour.

Vandalism of a synagogue and a Jewish cemetery, especially if the graffiti was of the usual kind in these things (swastikas and whatnot) is at least very likely to be anti-Semitic in motivation. I mean, if they catch a particular perpetrator and he has no idea what the building even was or something, okay, but that’s really not the way to bet.

 

[gracepoole]

Well I’m not.

Okay. And what definition do you support?

 

[Polak]

I hold an academic position that deals with antisemitism and the Holocaust – I don’t believe it’s accurate or charitable to refer to a “Holocaust industry.” As for Foxman, I was pleased to see his tenure at the ADL end.

Why not? It’s his way of describing the organisations who try to profit off the Holocaust. He even mentions in his book about how many Holocaust survivors and/or their families have not seen much of the money that these organisations have managed to force these nations to pay.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

I hold an academic position that deals with antisemitism and the Holocaust – I don’t believe it’s accurate or charitable to refer to a “Holocaust industry.” As for Foxman, I was pleased to see his tenure at the ADL end.

Why not? It’s his way of describing the organisations who try to profit off the Holocaust. He even mentions in his book about how many Holocaust survivors and/or their families have not seen much of the money that these organisations have managed to force these nations to pay.

Finklestein is not a reputable scholar. Ergo there is no need to agree with anything he publishes. As for “organizations who try to profit off the Holocaust,” this is a ridiculous mischaracterization and generalization that has little merit. The overwhelming number of Holocaust memorial institutions, museums, survivor networks, educational institutions, etc. are not attempting to “profit off the Holocaust.” The insinuation would be laughable if it weren’t so ugly.

 

[Polak]

I’m not sure there is a definition out there I can fully support. I would have to see others. I can agree with some of the things in that IHRA definition, but others I don’t agree would constitute as anti-Semitism.

 

[stpurl]

It’s tough because, frankly, this is not ‘Catholic antisemitism’ but rather antisemitism from those who self-identify as Catholic. So approaching from a ‘Catholic perspective’ isn’t really going to do anything. Catholic teaching is not antisemitic and asking people who are already going against Catholic teaching to OBEY said teaching hasn’t worked on other things, especially with regard to moral teachings.

I’d say retitle this to ‘how to confront antisemitism in the world’ instead of thinking that if we go after ‘Catholics’ in "Catholic ways’ that this will somehow solve the whole problem.

 

[gracepoole]

I’m not sure there is a definition out there I can fully support. I would have to see others. I can agree with some of the things in that IHRA definition, but others I don’t agree would constitute as anti-Semitism.

Respectfully, IHRA’s definition was crafted by a host of experts in this area. Dismissing it is feckless.

 

[gracepoole]

It’s tough because, frankly, this is not ‘Catholic antisemitism’ but rather antisemitism from those who self-identify as Catholic. So approaching from a ‘Catholic perspective’ isn’t really going to do anything. Catholic teaching is not antisemitic and asking people who are already going against Catholic teaching to OBEY said teaching hasn’t worked on other things, especially with regard to moral teachings.

I’d say retitle this to ‘how to confront antisemitism in the world’ instead of thinking that if we go after ‘Catholics’ in "Catholic ways’ that this will somehow solve the whole problem.

But I am indeed talking about Catholic antisemitism. Are you on Twitter? If so I can offer you some examples of accounts and personalities that are problematic.

 

[Polak]

Yes I know who it was crafted by and no, I don’t have to agree with them, just because they are experts. I’m sure there are plenty of other experts who weren’t involved, that might disagree with them.

For instance, ‘Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations’ isn’t anti-Semitism to me, even though IHRA defines it as such.

Some Jews even admit to caring more about Israel and Jewish issues than the country they live in. If they say it, it’s okay, but if someone else does, it’s anti-Semitism?

As for you point on it being wrong to suggest there are organisations who profit from the Holocaust, have you heard of the S447 Act?

 

[Brian_K]

“Anti-semitism” is a curious term. What exactly qualifies as anti-semitism. If I say “95% of pornography is owned by Jewish people”, and can document that fact, is that anti-semitic?

If I researched that fact because a pornographer, Al Goldstein, stated, “The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.” would my curiosity be anti-semitic?

Now, of course, if I accused all Jewish people of promoting and normalizing pornography, homosexuality, racial strife, abortion, and third world immigration to all first-world countries but Israel, and supplied no documentation of those claim, that would be anti-semitic. But much like “racism”, “anti-semitism” gets thrown around awfully loosely by irresponsible people and diminishes the consideration of authentic cases of anti-semitism.

Just another factor to consider in this conversation. I understand it’s really complex and challenging, and hope and pray people of good will may one day find more and better solutions.

 

[Rau]

I would think a politically-motivated attack wouldn’t target people at a synagogue, for example.

It would be like if somebody opposed America’s involvement in Syria, and then they bombed a baptist church.

I think that analogy is a bit weak. There is a very tight and very well known “connection” between Israel/Jewish Religion/Synagogues.

 

[Usagi]

If a specific person says that about their loyalties, then sure, it’s true for that person.

But accusations of dual/outside loyalties are classic bigoted attacks against people not viewed as “real [whatever nationality or group].” Catholics used to deal with similar accusations — they famously came up during JFK’s Presidential run. And of course Muslims heavily face such prejudice now. But Jewish people are perennial targets for some reason, even when it seems they have been thoroughly accepted.

 

[DeniseNY]

If any Jew doesn’t like where they’re at they have a very comfortable option to pursue.

So if Jews outside of Israel are being persecuted, they should just move to Israel? I hope I’m misunderstanding this.

 

[DeniseNY]

I am black so trying to pull the race card won’t get you far with me.

It’s not pulling the race card. It’s trying to understand your thought process and figure out why it would be ok to just have Jewish people leave if they’re being treated badly.

 

[DeniseNY]

You said 'if for any reason". Don’t you think anti-semitic actions would tend to be cause for unhappiness?

 

[tafan2]

I share your concern about the drastic increase in anti-Semitism. However, I am not on Twitter, so I have not seen this prevalence among some Catholics. Is that documented? I remember one thread on this forum discussing it and it did raise it’s ugly head there. Just curious/worried about it among Catholics.

 

[DeniseNY]

Ok, so if they’re experiencing anti-semitism, you’re saying they can just leave.

 

[Bithynian]

No other group on earth has that anymore.

Lots of groups do. There are many countries which are even more ethnically or religiously homogenous than Israel which is only ~75% Jewish by ethnicity according to the country’s statistical bureau in 2008. China is ~90% Han Chinese, Japan is ~98% native Japanese.

 

[TMC]

I share your concern about the drastic increase in anti-Semitism. However, I am not on Twitter, so I have not seen this prevalence among some Catholics. Is that documented? I remember one thread on this forum discussing it and it did raise it’s ugly head there. Just curious/worried about it among Catholics.

I can’t speak for Grace, but for me Catholic anti-Semitism is a particular concern for a couple of reasons. One of those reasons is the history of anti-Semitism in Catholicism, and the attempt by some Catholic (or at least purportedly Catholic) groups to revive those sentiments. I have seen a disappointing amount of that sort of rhetoric lately, including some here at CAF.

 

[Mark121359]

I provided three sources above. Let me know if you want or need more. Sadly, there is antisemitism in my community — and in many others across the US.

You said that there’s a documented jump in antisemitic speech and activity. I skimmed through these sources rather quickly. But nowhere did I see the word Catholic. The title of this thread is How to confront “Catholic” antisemitism. Now where is the documentation of this Catholic antisemitism?