How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Church_Militant]

You will never be fixed…willfully ignorant you are

Not by the different gospel according to Craig Linkowski I won’t and Thanks Be To God for that!

Furthermore, it’s not my beliefs that are errant modern twists of interpretation that do not agree with the plain text of the Word of God, the historic writings of the early church, nor the 2,000 years of Christian teaching, so I don’t think I’m the one who needs “fixing”, but perhaps someone who abandoned the faith for modern errors might.

 

[justasking4]

If this was true of your belief system, you would have a more balanced one based upon all the passages that we have discussed…but so far that is not the case.
And Catholics believe every word of what that Bible verse says…we just do not believe your modern and errant interpretation of that verse. What then does 1st Timothy 3:15 say is the pillar and ground of the truth? There’s no confusion in that verse…none at all.By all means! But you have grossly failed to do that, both in your “way of salvation” message, and in your teachings concerning baptism. I expect more from someone who tells me that they believe only what the Bible says.Then knock yourself out! By all means! But don’t base your beliefs on part of the Word of God…read all of it and believe what it teaches. Believe what it really says… You just summed up the way a Catholic would his own salvation.

Doesn’t the catholic church teach that a catholic can lose his salvation and can never be sure of it?

 

[Church_Militant]

The CC changes what it teaches on a regular basis.

A baseless statement of propaganda that you cannot now and have not ever been able to support with facts.

You would have long since if you had anything, but the fact is that you don’t, so apparently now you fall back upon rhetorical allegations in the hopes that some poor, naive, and ignorant Catholic might fall for it.

Hasn’t happened so far. In fact, in a great many cases, converts and re-verts (like me!) have come home to the faith as a result of just this kind of baseless propaganda when we sit down and check carefully to see if it’s true. The fact that it’s not, only serves to reduce the credibility of those who propound that junk.

 

[Church_Militant]

Doesn’t the catholic church teach that a catholic can lose his salvation

Yes ma’am we do.

and can never be sure of it?

This often is posed a s a trick question by n-Cs who believe in eternal security or OSAS.

In order to properly answer it,please forgive me if I link you to one of the best articles on that question I have ever found…and one that I agree with 100% and that is fully in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I hope that it answers you satisfactorily, and if not please feel free to contact me by PM or e-mail and I’ll do my best to carry the discussion further.

Assurance of Salvation?

 

[jabelltulsa]

(J-Bells Fiancee)

O.K. so, when I read the OP I thought, “Is this guy serious? Is this for real? Will the mods allow this to stand?”, and I am glad they have allowed this thread to play out. The posts I have read here are some of the best I have read on this forum. I, not being Catholic, enjoy reading the theology and history of the Catholic Church from those who believe it, live it, and actually know it. I am not Catholic but, hope to be one day.

The post I have read on this thread have done a great deal to bring me understanding that leads me to feel peace in my heart about Catholcism. Thank You, for posting here and for being so, well versed in your Faith.

I think a better title for this thread would be: “How to live a life that opens your soul to Heaven.”

:heaven:

Frodo -

I know that Catholicism is vast, and without a depth of understanding, it is easy to believe the Church is the detractor of faith in Christ. However, I urge you to take the time and objectively study the Catholic faith and the Bible. I believe if you do this, you will find the Church is truely a Beautiful Vessel left here on Earth by Christ to guide His sheep to Him.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I’d like to know who is telling people that they need to pray to Mary for their salvation. I’m wondering why that would even be an option for the poll.

I chose Other. As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13). Amen.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Doesn’t the catholic church teach that a catholic can lose his salvation and can never be sure of it?

Yes and a little bit of no.

“If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema.” (Canon 16, Decree Concerning Justification, Council of Trent)

 

[BloodStaindRose]

No one person knows the “how to on entering Heaven” but here goes:
I believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church and will LEAD you in the right direction towards Heaven, but what about those people who go to Mass every Sunday but do not receive Penance or receive Communion knowingly taking the Body of Christ?! Just because you’re Catholic I don’t think you’re going to Heaven.
If you die in a state of mortal sin knowingly, I do not think you will go to Heaven.
The Intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary will help in keeping someone in a state of grace and lead one from temptation.

And those who accept Jesus as their Savior but still tend to live in a state of mortal sin and think they can just do whatever are no more worthy of the Kingdom than someone who does not accept Jesus.

There is no certain formula and no one will know until Jesus Himself judges him/her.

 

[Linkowski]

You’re ignoring the plain statements of other passages on baptism and salvation.
Acts Chapter 2:38: And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts Chapter 22:16: And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

“And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.” Some have mistakenly sought support for baptismal regeneration (the false teaching that baptism is required for salvation) in this verse. Although baptism is an act of obedience required of all Christians, it does not save. Paul understood that clearly. To the Romans he wrote:
[This is] the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. (Rom. 10:8–10)
Paul preached that salvation came from belief in the heart (cf. Acts 16:31; Rom. 3:28) and public confession of that faith (cf. Matt. 10:32; Rom. 10:13). Obviously, he did not understand Ananias’s words to mean that baptism saves.
Acts 10:44–48 clearly reveals the relationship of baptism to salvation. It was only after Cornelius and his friends had received the Holy Spirit (giving evidence that they were saved) that Peter ordered them baptized (10:47). Baptism thus follows salvation and does not cause it. (For further discussion of baptismal regeneration, see MacArthur, Acts 1–12, 73–75).
Ananias’s words in verse 16, when properly understood, are in full agreement with the New Testament teaching that salvation is by faith alone. The phrase wash away your sins must be connected with calling on His name, since connecting it with be baptized leaves the participle epikalesamenos (calling) without an antecedent. Paul’s sins were washed away not by baptism but by calling on the name of the Lord (cf. Rom. 10:13). A literal translation of the verse says, “Arise, get yourself baptized and your sins washed away, having called on His name.” Both imperatives reflect the reality that Paul had already called on the Lord’s name, which is the act that saves. Baptism and the washing away of sins follow.

MacArthur, John: Acts. Chicago : Moody Press, 1994, c1996

Remember…

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Also…

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

I never said baptism was part of Moses’ law…but this shows that receiving the Spirit is by the hearing of faith…

Romans 10 clearly explains this apart from baptism.

Signed…JUSTIFIED!! And then baptized!

Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Church_Militant]

Witness the modern teachings of man in opposition to the plain Word of God…from people who profess themselves to be Bible only believers.

 

[jabelltulsa]

If you truly accepted Jesus Christ into your heart, it doesn’t matter what church you go to, you will get to heaven. If you haven’t truly done that from your heart, you won’t get there no matter which one you belong to. It’s not about a church. There is no where in the bible that says it’s about a church. When you accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you belong to the true church. The true church is the bride of Christ. That isn’t a building or denomination, it is made up of all true believers, even some catholics and protestants.

Please Correct me if I misunderstand: if a body of believers from various denominations are the True Church, then I am a little concerned that the Bride of Christ would be so many belief systems coming together in belief of the one true God. I hope you understand my meaning. I think that this works against the nature of God and for the nature of Man. I do not believe Christ would create such a fragile changing structure for his Bride.

I believe in Christ, with my whole heart, I believe that, faith in Christ alone only serves me it does not serve Christ it does not Guarantee me everlasting Life. If there is only one True God it stands to Reason there is only One True Church. I say this because God would only teach one version of the truth not many.

You place the wrong kind of emphasis on the Church as a Structure, The Church as a structure is a visible sign of God, the church as structure helps to fasten our faith it serves as a visible reinforcement of our faith. the Chuch as a structure Honors God. the church serves as the Vessel of Christ it leads his flock to him. it is a place you know he can be found. the Church of God has alway’s found a physical structure and I believe it alway’s will.

I understand your sentiment and wish it were that simple.

and hope that together we can find the fullness of Christ.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<If you truly accepted Jesus Christ into your heart, it doesn’t matter what church you go to, you will get to heaven. >>

Please tell me where the Bible uses the formula “accept Jesus Christ into your heart,” or even “accept Christ.”

Please tell me where the Bible uses the formula “personal savior.”

 

[Linkowski]

Witness the modern teachings of man in opposition to the plain Word of God…from people who profess themselves to be Bible only believers.

I do believe in the Bible only - but I **listen not **to those who will speak outside of the Bible…for instance - to say that we can pray TO Mary and “consecrate” ourselves to her. This is idolatry. It is YOU who does not listen to the plain Word of God IN CONTEXT.

 

[Church_Militant]

I do believe in the Bible only - but I **listen not **

to those who will speak outside of the Bible…**for instance - to say that we can pray TO Mary and “consecrate” ourselves to her. This is idolatry. It is YOU who does not listen to the plain Word of God IN CONTEXT.**Another bit of empty allegation without supporting proof.

Especially since if one tests the fruit of such consecrations you find holier lives, greater charity, and a deeper commitment to Christ and the spread of the Gospel.

Idolatry? Open your own thread and prove it. You can’t, can you?

Again, you make allegations against me that in all your time here at CAF you have never once been able to substantiate…so…again…you resort to propaganda.

Oh… and BTW…if you did have the God-given common sense to listen to those early church authors “outside the Bible” you’d have long ago seen the errors of the beliefs you have bought into since what you preach is not found in the plain sense of the New Testament nor in the writings of the early church who gave their very lives for the faith.

What does the New Testament say about people in the last days? 3 For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: 4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables.
2nd Timothy:4

 

[Mannyfit75]

I don’t think I ought to my reply because most of it was already answered by other Catholics in this forum.

 

[jmcrae]

I do believe in the Bible only - but I **listen not **to those who will speak outside of the Bible…for instance - to say that we can pray TO Mary and “consecrate” ourselves to her. This is idolatry. It is YOU who does not listen to the plain Word of God IN CONTEXT.

So, you can’t sign a contract or work for anyone other than God? (Since you would be “consecrating yourself” to do someone else’s work, who is not actually God.) How do you make a living, I wonder?

 

[Curious]

Frodo,

You say that it doesn’t matter what church you belong to to be saved, and that you believed “some” Catholics are saved and it would make to heaven.

I must assume then that you are also on the forums of Baptists, Methodists, Church of Christ, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Church of God…etc etc etc…making sure that they too, are not simply “going through the motions,” so to speak, and that you are posting the sinners prayer there too, to make sure that everyone knows how to get to heaven.

If you’re not, does that mean you believe that Catholics in particular are in some kind of danger?

If it’s true that all it takes is confession with the mouth and belief with the heart that Jesus is the Son of God, then they do that at every single Mass. What’s the problem?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I do believe in the Bible only - but I **listen not **to those who will speak outside of the Bible…for instance - to say that we can pray TO Mary and “consecrate” ourselves to her. This is idolatry. It is YOU who does not listen to the plain Word of God IN CONTEXT.

So marriage is idolatrous?

 

[RobHom]

Because you said that you are saved by Jesus through the chruch and I said that that is wrong. We are saved by Jesus through FAITH in CHRIST alone. The church has nothing to do with our salvation other than that it’s role is to point us to Christ and His word, not it’s self. Everything centers around GOD no one else and nothing more. Its all about Him and what He did for us. It doesn’t center in any way around the church.

Wouldn’t it be easier if you just stopped playing semantics games? Its like you are trying to use triple negatives to prove a double negative-positive.

Re-read what you said above, then set aside your obvious prejudices against the Catholic Church…and well, maybe you will understand what you actually said.

Sorry sport…but you have “zip” knowledge of the Catholic Church, what it is, what it stands for, and what role it plays in our lives. Maybe if you took the time to find out the truth in these issues, you might find some peace in your life.

I do believe in the Bible only - but I **listen not **to those who will speak outside of the Bible…for instance - to say that we can pray TO Mary and “consecrate” ourselves to her. This is idolatry. It is YOU who does not listen to the plain Word of God IN CONTEXT.

Idolatry… now you are showing yourself to be in an abject state of “wrong” and “confusion”… Catholics do not “worship” the Virgin Mary, or anyone else for that matter… We worship only “GOD, the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit”. Get that? You apparently are no where near as well versed as you profess to be regarding the Bible, otherwise you would not be saying what you have. I have never consecrated myself to Mary. I have prayed for her intercession, and have received it.

IN CONTEXT?? Whoa bubba, again you show your lack of knowledge… Try again.

Let me guess, you are one of those ersatz “christians” who thinks you “have the mind of God”… You know the kind… the “B-K” brand of religion…its anyway you want it, and you only use the snippets of scripture that meet your “agenda”?

The CC changes what it teaches on a regular basis.

Care to offer more proof than your opinion? I’ve found the teachings of the Catholic Church to be “consistent” for over a half a century now. Me thinks your opine is lacking merit/validity or even a mote of substance.

 

[jabelltulsa]

I do believe in the Bible only - but I **listen not **to those who will speak outside of the Bible…for instance - to say that we can pray TO Mary and “consecrate” ourselves to her. This is idolatry. It is YOU who does not listen to the plain Word of God IN CONTEXT.

(Jbell’s Fiancee)

Do you believe that others can pray for you? do you believe in intercession? do you believe that Christ hears my prayer for you? do you not consecrate yourself to other believers when you hold hands and pray? I do not believe these things are agianst God, I believe People have a Hard time with Catholics asking Mary to pray for them because it is unfamiliar territory and easily pegged as Blasphemy or Idolatry because Mary is given a position of Honor in the Church and because there are statues of her in Churches. she is the Mother of Christ and as such Honored . She** is not **Worshipped or given the Honor reserved exclusively for Christ,and therefore it is not idolatry.

If I ask you to pray for me, then I am actually PRAYING TO you to pray for me. Prayer is a humble request. It is not worship. So, when someone prays TO Mary, they are asking her for intercession. In Catholic practices, praying TO Mary is asking her to pray FOR us.

In Sacred Scripture, Mary asks Christ for a miracle - His first public miracle, at the wedding in Cana She says to the servants “do as he asks” and he Honors her request.

Given the closeness of her relationship to Christ, just as at Cana, we believe He will Honor her prayer FOR us.

The importance of his Honoring her is huge. She is merely a Woman and at the same time The mother of Christ, he Is God made Flesh, yet he honors her.

Honoring Mary is not meant as idolatry, it is meant to honor Christ and his relationship to her.

(Taking the Bible in Context requires a great deal of understanding of history and the use of language during the time periods that it was written, the Bible is not plain text. it does not say in simple modern terms the things we understand. the bible is a text that dates from the time of moses to the time of the Apostles. the bible is a book that uses many diffrent literary devices and the Bible has been traslated from many diffrent languages into many diffrent languages the Bible is a book that is complex and I would be a Fool to think that I have the full Knowledge and Understanding to Interpret Scripture.)