How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[MariaG]

Only God has the power to forgive sins. (Jesus is God)

Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

Okay, my time is up again, and I still haven’t gotten to the end. Marking my place again, and although further discussion is best on a new thread, I thought I would quote my favorite Bible verses.

(I know someone else probably already has, but I just love these verses!)

John 20:21-23

21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

And from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Only God forgives sin [1441](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1441.htm’) Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

39 Cf. Mk 2:7.
40 Mk 2:5,10; Lk 7:48.
41 Cf. Jn 20:21-23.

When a person heals another through prayer or laying on of hands, we know that God is the one who recieves all glory and honor. But the bible is filled with example showing that God has chosen to heal people through people. Doesn’t change whom the power came from and who the glory belongs to.

I would love to further discuss confession in a new thread Place a link in this thread, or a PM since it seems as if I will never get to the end of this thread

God Bless,
Maria

 

[steveandersen]

As my priest said this Sunday:
If Christianity was just about getting your little soul into heaven that would certainly make it a petty thing. It‘s not just all about you.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I picked other because ALL of these things get you to Heaven. Jesus by his death and resurrection opened Heaven for us and continues to give Himself through the Blessed Sacrament. Mary brings us closer to Jesus through her powerful intercession and prayer. If you bow to Christ, you’ll bow to the Church that Jesus founded–the only one (besides Orthodox) to give us His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

 

[MariaG]

Baptism does NOT save.

Faith alone and now baptism doesn’t save.

How many different ways does can a “bible Christian” 100% contradict scripture and still be called a “bible Christian”?

You seem to divorcing the FAITH that is present during baptism.

Would baptism, and the mumbling of words save anyone without faith in Christ? No. But that is not what Catholic teaching is. You can’t divorce the faith in baptism from baptism in the Catholic teaching. That your denomination has done so does not mean that the Catholic Church has done so. Please try to understand that.

Respectfully,
Maria

 

[deanarrca]

Wonderful Apologetics from everyone but here is a very simple answer to the Question of Assurance of Salvation. (Sorrry if I’m repeating stuff already said I read most of the posts but not all)

When someone like the original poster asks a Catholic if they are “Saved” what they really mean is “Don’t you wish you had the assurance of Salvation like me.”

The Original poster stated that You need to make Jesus Lord and Savior of you life and
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? DO YOU ACCEPT WHAT HE DID FOR YOU TO PAY FOR YOUR SINS?

That is True. That is necessary for Salvation. The problem is an individual can truly believe that with all his heart at one point in his life then totally not believe later in life.

Here is the conundrum. John (name used for example) gets “saved” according to original posters method. John Believes with all his heart Christ died for his sins and repents and accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior- says prayer and makes commitment to Christ. For 10 years he is an awesome Christian. He believes he’s saved, those around him believe he’s saved. Then he begins to backslide (no problem here it happens to all Christians from time to time. Not unsaved yet) but then John has some sort of life crisis where everything he once believed he no longer believes. I’ve seen it happen over and over again. So John now no longer believes that Christ died for his sins and completely with free will lets say converts to a pagan religion.

What ordinarily happens is people like original poster would say he wasn’t really saved. But here’s the rub HE THOUGHT FOR 10 years HE WAS SAVED. The People around him thought he was saved. So if you can think you are saved and then fall away there is no assurance. I could be like John. (However I personally feel that my relationship with Christ is so tight I would like to think that that would never happen to me and I have good assurance I am not in mortal sin and that I am would get to heaven if I were to die today) But I could be like John in my example, and anyone else claiming to be saved at present could end up like John.
The criteria the original poster used said Salvation was contingent on belief. the Fact is belief can change! People have free will. I know people who have truly believed with all there heart that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and then for what ever reason turn their back on him.

Christ can truly keep those that are his but he never keeps someone againt their will.

My view of the situation, and why after being protestant for over
20 years I am in RCIA
Deeny

PS: I hear more straight scripture read every Sunday in the Catholic church than I ever heard in a protestant Bible church and the scripture read reflect the whole of scripture not just the Pastors personal favorites (Those favorite pet scriptures of the Pastor that usually support his personal view point while leaving problematic scriptures out)

OK That was way more than my 2 cents.

 

[Linkowski]

As my priest said this Sunday:
If Christianity was just about getting your little soul into heaven that would certainly make it a petty thing. It‘s not just all about you.

Absolutely!! We are here for the glory of God.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Again, I have had to prune this thread of off topic posts concerning Communion…(they will return shortly in their own thread, so please stand by if that was something you were into.)

The topic of this thread is “How To Get To Heaven When You Die”.

Please stick to that…
MF

 

[Catholig]

I am the one who voted “by praying to Mary”. To Jesus, through Mary. However, I have also made the Heroic Act Of Love to Mary, for the Poor Souls, so must undergo my full time in Purgatory.

I was thinking of clicking that one to get the OP all rilled up, but in truth when you follow the teachings of the Church you’d have a great respect for Mary.

Catholig

 

[Saint_Sinner]

“The Church” is the universal sacrament of salvation instituted by Christ. People that place Jesus against the Church are setting up a false dichotomy.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

The Devil believed in God, yet he is in hell. He isn’t saved. Belief in Jesus is more than his belief. You have to believe everything that he as taught us. You cannot pick and choose parts of the Bible and make up new doctrines like those founded in Protestantism.

Jesus did say, there will be those who will say. Lord, Lord, did we not preached in your name? Jesus then answer I never knew you.

That’s exactly right! It’s a good thing that I have placed my faith in Him for salvation and believe that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for my sins. Yes, I know Him personally. We need to do what the bible tells us to do and that is put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. All that other stuff is not for salvation, it’s because you are saved. Threre is a big difference.

 

[Milliardo]

That’s exactly right! It’s a good thing that I have placed my faith in Him for salvation and believe that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for my sins. Yes, I know Him personally. We need to do what the bible tells us to do and that is put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. All that other stuff is not for salvation, it’s because you are saved. Threre is a big difference.

Knowing Him personally is never enough to be saved. What is needed to be saved? It is knowing and obeying Him–it is both, not either or. Many proclaim Jesus and yet continue to sin–are these saved as well?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So by your premise the Church and Jesus aren’t One. Is not the Church the Mystical Body of Christ? You cannot separate the Church and Jesus.

When Saul persecuted the Church, Jesus came to Saul and said, "Saul, why are you persecuting me?

The Early Church was Catholic. She had Peter as the first Pope. Bible Alone isn’t even noted in the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that the Bible ALONE is the sole role of faith…

Sorry, dude, I don’t buy your sale pinch that is only dates back its history in 1517 during the Reformation. I rather stick with the original Church which Jesus founded. Since it was also His Church that produce the Bible.

I want to make this very Clear. YOu Protestants cannot separate the Church and Jesus Christ!!!

Why did Jesus married the Bride, the New Jerusalem, the New Church. The Bride of the Lamb.

No the church is not Jesus. They are the body of Christ, but Jesus Christ is the head. We do what Jesus wants, not vice versa. Jesus Christ saves, not the church. He died on the cross and rose from the dead, not the church. He said to trust in Him, He didn’t say to put your faith in the church. I don’t believe that peter was the first pope in the same way as the popes of today. The catholic chuch today doesn’t resemble the first church. They didn’t baptize babies, they didn’t think that the pope could override God’s word, they didn’t pray to anyone except God, they believed in salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone, without the result of works. Can you separate a man and his wife? They are two, but they become one flesh do you know when? When they are having intercourse. That is when. Christians are one with Christ in that His Holy Spirit dwells inside of them. But we aren’t Jesus Christ. That would be blashphemy to elevate the church to the level of Jesus Christ. He is worthy of worship, not the church. He created all things, not the church. He is God, not the church.

 

[Milliardo]

No the church is not Jesus. They are the body of Christ, but Jesus Christ is the head.

Well, you said so yourself–the Church is the body of Christ, so the Church is part of Christ.

Jesus Christ saves, not the church.

If the Church does not save, then Jesus does not save, since the Church is part of Him and is given power by Him.

they believed in salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone, without the result of works.

You’ll have a lot of reading to do to understand what early Christians believed in, starting from the early Church Fathers

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Frodobaggins - no it’s not. Yes, honor and worship Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and second person of the Trinity - but do it by honoring his Church, which he founded. His bride, who he bore out of his side. Who he instructed his mother to protect. Who he sent the Holy Ghost to Teach. Who he put Peter in charge of. Who he edified with the blood of Martyrs and Saints. Who he told his disciples to preach.

Seriously I double-dog dare you to read the St. Francis de Sales’ The Catholic Controversy. I guarantee that if you read it - even if you don’t convert on the spot - you’ll have a lot to think over, and it’ll make for months of very interesting dialog with your pastor as he tries to refute it for you.

Catholig

So, you elevate “the church” above Jesus Christ? No way, man not in a million years. You have it back wards buddy. Honor the church, ya, but NEVER elevate ANYTHING or anyone above the Lord Himself. You do it by trusting in Jesus Christ as the bible clearly says. You have No scripture to back that faulty teaching, just a faulty church tradition which contradicts God’s word.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So we are in the book of life the whole life and blotted out right before we die?

This is even more wrong that OSAS. People who do not accept Jesus Christ, perhaps even the worst Satanist who mock him every day and who sacrifice innocent people to their demons are in the book of life - the book that lists names of those who are on their way to eternal life - until they die.

Blotted out when we reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Have you read my previous posts post or have you ignored them or missed them? I explain this.

**Yes, but it’s kind of hard to keep up with hundreds of people. **

My question is, can you be saved outside of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, who is his body?

You can’t be saved by the church. Only by Jesus Christ.

And if you say no then you must know that the Church Jesus founded is not just some abstract thing but the Catholic Church. In this we differ from your understand. Thus you must follow the Church because the Church comes from Christ and outside of it there is no light

**
No, outside Jesus Christ is no light.** The church is supposed to reflect HIS light, but they don’t always do that. To be like Him, He is goal, not the church.

What you regard as Church (baptist church, Lutheran church) are ecclesial communities. They are gathering of people who may be invisibly united with the Catholic Church by their baptism but what they call churches is nothing more than a communities of individuals who reject the true Church.

Wrong. We reject false teachings and the true church is not a denomiation.

I’m going to and I will receive Lord Jesus Christ. He will be physically present in that church!

Where is His seat? Could you take a picture of Him for me?

QUOTE]

 

[CrypticWritings]

Keeping my eyes on this thread as I know it will definitely get interesting. :tiphat:

Yeah! No Kidding!!!
Who would have thought Frodo Baggins himself would make an appearance on this forum with propaganda? He probably didn’t think anyone would notice at first with the “x’s” before and after his name as a disguise, but now I’ve figured it out.
I still would like to know what happened to his finger after Golem bit it off. I couldn’t tell if it was sewn back on or not.

Seriously, isn’t this nonsense from a Jack Chick brochure or something? I know I’ve seen it before.

 

[HailMary]

xfrodobagginsx, this one is for you.

come on now, give it a try.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Who developed this Criteria???

(J-Bells Fiancee)

The very word Baptizo, literally means:

1. baptizw baptizo, bap-tid’-zo
   Search for 907 in KJV

from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:–Baptist, baptize, wash.

Mt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

 

[FrankLawrence]

So, you elevate “the church” above Jesus Christ?

The quote you used to arrive at that conclusion has made you guilty of the text book definition of slander, and bearing false witness against your neighbor. Nothing of the the sort was said or even remotely implied in that quote.

Anyway, Frodo Baggins, what do you think of this: Ezekiel 18:24 says, “And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil, the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does, can he do this and still live? None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered, because he has broken faith and committed sin; because of this, he shall die.” Note the words, “broken faith.” Failure to continue in virtuous deeds constitutes “broken faith” So, what does “faith” mean, according to this verse? Does it match your definition?