How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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You have a faulty understanding.

In the Teachings of the Catholic Church, Christ is the Church. One is not elevated over the other because Christ is the Church.

So when Catholic Christian says, I trust in the Church it is the same as saying I trust in Christ because Christ is the Church.

There are many scriptures that I could quote on this but that is not the thrust of this thread on how to get to heaven.

You do not need to agree with us that Christ is the Church, but you do need to understand in order to prevent statements that are faulty as the one above.

We do not place the Church above Christ because according to our interpretation of scripture and the teachings of the apostles, Christ is the Church.

God Bless,
Maria
No, Christ is the head of the church, we are His body. We trust in the head, He is the vine and we are the branches. The branches abide in the vine or it dies.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
 
If that’s true than under your logic she is George W. Bush. But we know that she isn’t and doesn’t have His authority. He can give her authority, but Jesus hasn’t given the church the authority to save.
Jesus saves through the Church. Even in Protestantism, that is implied, though never directly stated as such. The better analogy would be that of an ambassador, who is given the powers of the President to act in his behalf; what he says is taken as what the official line of the government he represents says, so we can see in that sense the Church represents Christ and acts in behalf of Him.
 
Frodo, did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you, and those who instructed you MISINTERPRETED the Bible. In my experience, whenever a Protestant starts a sentence with the words, “The Bible is very clear that…”, surely something heretical is about to follow. Explain this one, Frodo
Matthew 13:20-21 “The seed that fell on patches of rock is the man who hears the message and at first receives it with joy. But he has no roots, so he lasts only for a time. When some setback or persecution involving the message occurs, he soon falters.”
In what way could that not be applicable to someone who followed your “sinner’s prayer” method of salvation? DO NOT answer my question with another question or change the subject. DO NOT try to come up with other verses to “prove” your point. Address this verse!
No, what we are telling you is that we abide in God’s word, not in a church. When a Christian says “The bible is very clear” That means that the person is abiding in God’s word. If that bothers you, perhaps you are the heretic.

As far as your verse goes, here is the interpretation…The seed is the word of God. The person had no root in Himself in that He didn’t allow the word to take root in His heart. He had a head knowledge but it didn’t get into His heart, thus He wasn’t saved to begin with. Because of the cares of this present world, he turned his heart away before he was converted. Is that clear to you? As I clearly stated in the original post, we must pray that prayer to God FROM OUR HEART. So I don’t know what you are getting at.
 
No, Christ is the head of the church, we are His body. We trust in the head, He is the vine and we are the branches. The branches abide in the vine or it dies.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Frodo, exactly what I said in post 320.
 
You have a faulty understanding.

In the Teachings of the Catholic Church, Christ is the Church. One is not elevated over the other because Christ is the Church.

So when Catholic Christian says, I trust in the Church it is the same as saying I trust in Christ because Christ is the Church.

There are many scriptures that I could quote on this but that is not the thrust of this thread on how to get to heaven.

You do not need to agree with us that Christ is the Church, but you do need to understand in order to prevent statements that are faulty as the one above.

We do not place the Church above Christ because according to our interpretation of scripture and the teachings of the apostles, Christ is the Church.

God Bless,
Maria
He is NOT the church. He is the head, we are the body. He is in charge, not us. The church can do nothing without Him. We place our faith and hope in Him alone.
 
No, what we are telling you is that we abide in God’s word, not in a church. When a Christian says “The bible is very clear” That means that the person is abiding in God’s word. If that bothers you, perhaps you are the heretic.
When a person says that, he is abiding by what is taught to him by someone else, or else by the interpretation of someone else. Illumination by one’s insight is very rare, especially in our times today.
 
Yet isn’t the call of Christ for us to be perfect, just as His Father is perfect? Christ calls us not to sin; it is no excuse for us to say that we continue to sin, so we must live in sin anyway, as your thought implies.

The word translated perfect means “mature”, not sinless. We cannot be sinless as the bible clearly states. We strive to be sinless, yet we sin. If you say that you don’t sin, the bible says you are a liar.

Written to Christians:

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

That is right, because we need to…what? To sin again? Of course not. We confess our sins and keep a right relationship with Him because sin is an affront to Him. Therefore, wouldn’t it be reasonable to stop sinning rather than to sin? Wouldn’t it then be better to strive for that perfection, as Jesus asks us to do?
We absolutely strive for that perfection, but it is unattainable in this life.
 
Do you worship mary above God? Jesus said to come unto Him, He didn’t say to come through mary.
Which part of “We Catholics do not worship Mary” do you not comprehend?

Here’s 4 for free to help you get a grip.
The Intercession of the Saints (Fathers*)
Praying to the Saints
Saint Worship?
Do Catholics Worship Statues?
Plus, there is no purgatory at all. It’s not even meantioned in the bible.
Try to stay on topic or you’ll get your thread closed.

For your information, a doctrine does not have to mentioned by name in the Bible to be held by Christians. It’s called an implied doctrine, where the Bible lays out the principles and the believers (namely the Church) codifies the doctrine. The perfect example of this is the Trinity. (Assuming that you are from a community that believes in the Trinity). Please find that for me in the Word of God. You can’t do it…you can find the passages that illustrate it and that the doctrine is based upon, but you will not find it explicitly called the trinity inn the Bible.

The very same is true of Purgatory, as I deal with it here.
Stay on the topic of salvation though or the mods will close the thread…

Oh…and quit trying to ignore my posts…I’m not gonna just go away. 🙂
 
As far as your verse goes, here is the interpretation…The seed is the word of God. The person had no root in Himself in that He didn’t allow the word to take root in His heart. He had a head knowledge but it didn’t get into His heart, thus He wasn’t saved to begin with. Because of the cares of this present world, he turned his heart away before he was converted. Is that clear to you? As I clearly stated in the original post, we must pray that prayer to God FROM OUR HEART. So I don’t know what you are getting at.
First, I’d like to thank you for following my request and sticking to the verse. You say he turned his heart away before he was converted. Yet, the verse says that, “he hears the message and receives it with joy.” So my point is, how do you know whether someone who accepts YOUR way of salvation has truly accepted it in their hearts or has not? If you don’t know, then how can you guarantee that person salvation if they died that day? What is the outward “proof,” if you will, that someone has personally accepted Jesus in his or her heart? If no such proof is outwardly visible, by what logic can you declare that you can guarantee the salvation of anyone who “accepts” Christ, from the moment of acceptance onward?
 
We absolutely strive for that perfection, but it is unattainable in this life.
Ah, then do you not trust in what Jesus said? Jesus said this and was sure it can be attained even now, or else He would not give a command that is impossible to achieve, would He now?
 
We absolutely strive for that perfection, but it is unattainable in this life.
Why do you insist to contradict Jesus? Would He “tease” us with His teaching?

Matthew 5:48
So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Christ does not exaggerate, especially when it comes to the Beatitudes.

So once again, you are wrong. Will you at least admit to that?
 
You cannot show me any place in Catholic teaching where what you have stated is our belief. Catholig has be ineloquent in his statement, but the principle is that Christ built His church, and that Church believed and taught certain things that are recorded both in the New Testament and in Christian history.

If in fact your own beliefs do not align with those verifiable teachings, then who is wrong?I’m sorry, but that is not at all what the passage says and not at all what it even remotely implies.

I don’t care what catholics teach, I care what the bible teaches.

What you have offered is your own faith community’s all too fallible interpretation, and it glaringly contradicts what the Word of God says in this case.this is all well and good, but the fact is that the early church (both in the New Testament and after, had no such scruples on this matter, as the story of the Philippian jailer points out to us here.

I don’t agree.

Acts 16:[23] And when they had inflicted many blows upon them, they threw them into prison, charging the jailer to keep them safely.
[24] Having received this charge, he put them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks.
[25] But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them,
[26] and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and every one’s fetters were unfastened.
[27] When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.
[28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.”
[29] And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas,
[30] and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?”
[31] And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
[32] And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house.
[33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.

[34] Then he brought them up into his house, and set food before them; and he rejoiced with all his household that he had believed in God.

Notice that he washed their wounds and then he and his whole household was baptized. It nowhere says that they carted him and his whole family off to the riverside to have a baptism. In fact it was the middle of the night…

They were baptized after they believed on Christ and confessed Him. The baptism didn’t save, it was an act of obedience.

Moreover, the earliest verifiably Christian writings show this was never an issue.

The catholic ones that they kept perhaps. I honestly don’t trust them to keep things that contradict their own teachings.

From the Didache (The teaching of the Twelve Apostles):
 
He is NOT the church. He is the head, we are the body. He is in charge, not us. The church can do nothing without Him. We place our faith and hope in Him alone.
Why then does the New Testament say that Our Lord is the head of the same body that we are?

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy:

24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:
 
whoa, talk about 180. Brother, from what I see, you are just one confused kid.
How so?

Ro 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit,** the redemption of our body**

I am just going by the bible. What are going by?🤷
 
You cannot show me any place in Catholic teaching where what you have stated is our belief. Catholig has be ineloquent in his statement, but the principle is that Christ built His church, and that Church believed and taught certain things that are recorded both in the New Testament and in Christian history.

If in fact your own beliefs do not align with those verifiable teachings, then who is wrong?I’m sorry, but that is not at all what the passage says and not at all what it even remotely implies.

What you have offered is your own faith community’s all too fallible interpretation, and it glaringly contradicts what the Word of God says in this case.this is all well and good, but the fact is that the early church (both in the New Testament and after, had no such scruples on this matter, as the story of the Philippian jailer points out to us here.

Acts 16:[23] And when they had inflicted many blows upon them, they threw them into prison, charging the jailer to keep them safely.
[24] Having received this charge, he put them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks.
[25] But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them,
[26] and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and every one’s fetters were unfastened.
[27] When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.
[28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.”
[29] And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas,
[30] and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?”
[31] And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
[32] And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house.
[33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family.
[34] Then he brought them up into his house, and set food before them; and he rejoiced with all his household that he had believed in God.

Notice that he washed their wounds and then he and his whole household was baptized. It nowhere says that they carted him and his whole family off to the riverside to have a baptism. In fact it was the middle of the night…

Moreover, the earliest verifiably Christian writings show this was never an issue.

From the Didache (The teaching of the Twelve Apostles):
That’s not in the bible. The pour three times stuff. Show me through the bible. I don’t trust the catholic churches “History”
 
Jesus saves through the Church. Even in Protestantism, that is implied, though never directly stated as such. The better analogy would be that of an ambassador, who is given the powers of the President to act in his behalf; what he says is taken as what the official line of the government he represents says, so we can see in that sense the Church represents Christ and acts in behalf of Him.
It never once says that in the bible. We are ambassadors, I agree, but the ambassador is simply there to give the message of the king, the ambassador is not the king, He is the representitive of the King and has no power, the King has the power.
 
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