How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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FrankLawrence said:
I’m glad you finally see things the proper way. Would you like me to set you up with the RCIA?
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Jesus Christ is the vine. We need Him. The church is not the vine, Jesus Christ is. The church is the branches. The Savior is the vine, not the branches.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
How so?

Ro 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit,** the redemption of our body**

I am just going by the bible. What are going by?🤷
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Redemption is not Salvation. Two different words, two different meanings.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
It never once says that in the bible. We are ambassadors, I agree, but the ambassador is simply there to give the message of the king, the ambassador is not the king, He is the representitive of the King and has no power, the King has the power.
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I am making an analogy, as you can see, based on present world politics and how things are done. It doesn’t need to be in the Bible to make an analogy so as to drive home a point.
 
HailMary said:
Do you place your faith in God the Father the 1st person of the Most Holy Trinity?

Do you place your faith in God the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person in the Most Holy Trinity?
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Of course. They are all one God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Jesus Christ is the vine. We need Him. The church is not the vine, Jesus Christ is. The church is the branches. The Savior is the vine, not the branches.
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And yet it also states that the branches are part of Him. Ergo, then…what? The conclusion is rather obvious.
 
FrankLawrence said:
First, I’d like to thank you for following my request and sticking to the verse. You say he turned his heart away before he was converted. Yet, the verse says that, “he hears the message and receives it with joy.” So my point is, how do you know whether someone who accepts YOUR way of salvation has truly accepted it in their hearts or has not? If you don’t know, then how can you guarantee that person salvation if they died that day? What is the outward “proof,” if you will, that someone has personally accepted Jesus in his or her heart? If no such proof is outwardly visible, by what logic can you declare that you can guarantee the salvation of anyone who “accepts” Christ, from the moment of acceptance onward?
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Because the guy in the analogy never let it into his HEART. In my post I make it CLEAR by saying “If you prayed that prayer to God and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die”
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
I don’t care what catholics teach, I care what the bible teaches.
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Apparently you DO care what Catholics teach…or we wouldn’t be having this discussion now would we?

Unfortunately for you…Catholics base their beliefs on the word of God as much as you do and then some.
What you have offered is your own faith community’s all too fallible interpretation, and it glaringly contradicts what the Word of God says in this case.this is all well and good, but the fact is that the early church (both in the New Testament and after, had no such scruples on this matter, as the story of the Philippian jailer points out to us here.
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I don’t agree.
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And why is that a valid response? It’s not. What does the Word of God say?
2nd Timothy 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Notice something? St. Paul does not tell Timothy to just study the Bible, does he? :eek:

and then also: 1st Thessalonians 5:21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Notice that he washed their wounds and then he and his whole household was baptized. It nowhere says that they carted him and his whole family off to the riverside to have a baptism. In fact it was the middle of the night…
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**They were baptized after they believed on Christ and confessed Him. The baptism didn’t save, it was an act of obedience.**The problem here is that that is not what the passage says…
Moreover, the earliest verifiably Christian writings show this was never an issue.
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**The catholic ones that they kept perhaps. I honestly don’t trust them to keep things that contradict their own teachings.**Hey, no one’s trying to bluff you… if you don’t believe me then google all this for yourself and then make an informed decision.

Have the courage of your convictions to look into all this for yourself and then go ask your pastor or preacher or whatever, and see if his answers line up as truth. If not then you have a problem, but by no means take my word for it. I sure as vitam aeternam didn’t!👍

Have at it…and knock yourself right out.
CM
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Because the guy in the analogy never let it into his HEART. In my post I make it CLEAR by saying “If you prayed that prayer to God and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die”
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What if you murder someone after that? Do you still automatically go to heaven?
 
Milliardo said:
Ah, then do you not trust in what Jesus said? Jesus said this and was sure it can be attained even now, or else He would not give a command that is impossible to achieve, would He now?
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No because that word perfect actually should be translated “mature” or “complete” not actually perfect. Look up the greek dictionary meaning of that word used there.
 
Lorrie said:
Frodo, may I ask your age? I don’t wish to offend by asking this.
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Sure, I’m 35 and been a Christian since I was 4, raised in church and have been studying the bible for a long time. How about you?
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
No because that word perfect actually should be translated “mature” or “complete” not actually perfect. Look up the greek dictionary meaning of that word used there.
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It still doesn’t negate what He said, since the net result is still the same: He asks us to do something which, as you stated, is impossible.
 
HailMary said:
Redemption is not Salvation. Two different words, two different meanings.
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To be redeemed is to be saved.

REDEEMER

A name given to Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, because he redeems mankind from the bondage and guilt of their sins, by dying in their place, and thus paying their ransom, Mt 20:28; Ga 3:13; Eph 1:7; 1Ti 2:6; Tit 2:14; 1Pe 1:18,19; Re 5:9. In the law of Moses, Le 25:25,48, this title is given to one who has the right of redemption in an inheritance, especially to a near kinsman, who may redeem it from a stranger or any Jew who had bought it. Such was Boaz, who, being one of the nearest relations of Elimelech, married Ruth the heiress of Elimelech, and thereby reentered into the possession of her estate. Jeremiah redeemed the field of his nephew Hanameel, which was on the point of being sold to another, Jer 32:7,8. So Christ became a partaker of flesh and blood, that as our near kinsman he might redeem for us the heavenly inheritance, Job 19:25,26.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Jesus Christ is the vine. We need Him. The church is not the vine, Jesus Christ is. The church is the branches. The Savior is the vine, not the branches.
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Frodo, I think you misunderstood what point I was making, which is understandable, since you are having multiple conversations with multiple people. Go back to post #322. I was commending you for saying “The branches abide in the vine or it dies.” The key word there is ABIDE!!! That was the point that we were trying to make. You need to ABIDE in the vine, who I agree with you is Jesus. Abide does not mean “accept.” Abide means to remain within. How long do we need to remain within? Until the end. See Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, 2 Peter 3:17, Revelation 2:10, Revelation 2:26, and Revelation 3:11. So, unless you have a different definition for the word, “abide,” the Scripture that YOU quoted shows that it takes more than merely a one time acceptance of Christ to be eternally saved, but to remain within Him. The Scriptures that I listed show that it needs to be until the end. You can check them yourselves. This is all straight Bible, as you like it.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Because the guy in the analogy never let it into his HEART. In my post I make it CLEAR by saying “If you prayed that prayer to God and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die”
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Yes, but can you completely trust yourself and your feelings on such an important matter? You pray this prayer from your heart today, are 100% convinced you have faith and belief and trust. There is no doubt in your heart. You feel the Lord and His love. You have that personal relationship. And as another poster so poignantly described, 10 years down the road you lose that faith, somehow, someway. According to your “theology”, you were never saved.

So I ask you. How do you know? How can anyone ever know if they are truly saved? Human beings are frail and fallen and given to great doubt. How can they ever fully trust only themselves to be the final judge of their authenticity?
 
Milliardo said:
And yet it also states that the branches are part of Him. Ergo, then…what? The conclusion is rather obvious.
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The branches need Him, but He doesn’t need the branches.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

This is dealing with Christians who don’t bear fruit. That is a Christian who does nothing for the Lord, he takes Him away, meaning, He will kill them physically.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
To be redeemed is to be saved.

REDEEMER

A name given to Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, because he redeems mankind from the bondage and guilt of their sins, by dying in their place, and thus paying their ransom, Mt 20:28; Ga 3:13; Eph 1:7; 1Ti 2:6; Tit 2:14; 1Pe 1:18,19; Re 5:9. In the law of Moses, Le 25:25,48, this title is given to one who has the right of redemption in an inheritance, especially to a near kinsman, who may redeem it from a stranger or any Jew who had bought it. Such was Boaz, who, being one of the nearest relations of Elimelech, married Ruth the heiress of Elimelech, and thereby reentered into the possession of her estate. Jeremiah redeemed the field of his nephew Hanameel, which was on the point of being sold to another, Jer 32:7,8. So Christ became a partaker of flesh and blood, that as our near kinsman he might redeem for us the heavenly inheritance, Job 19:25,26.
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Precisely, the whole mankind is redeemed, even Muslims, yes, Christ died for them too, to save all mankind. But Salvation is for the Christian who works his out in “fear and trembling” Phil 2:12

Salvation is beyond redemption. Redemption is a necessary step which was taken by Christ on the Cross and in His resurrection.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
The branches need Him, but He doesn’t need the branches.
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Then wouldn’t you agree that if that’s the case, it is useless to be a Christian? That is quite inaccurate then. We need Him, and He is also there for us. In short, it is a mutual relationship. To say He doesn’t need us is sheer folly, I am sorry to say.
This is dealing with Christians who don’t bear fruit. That is a Christian who does nothing for the Lord, he takes Him away, meaning, He will kill them physically.
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Not just physically, but will actually throw them into hellfire. However, what does that have to do with your statement above?
 
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