How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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xfrodobagginsx said:
Ok, I read it. I believe it because it’s in the bible. Why aren’t you willing to believe what I show you from the bible?
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It’s in the Bible that you don’t need to be good to get into heaven? Then why did Christ tell us to keep His commandments (which include the ten, remember - as He told to the rich young man).

And why did He give us the passage about ‘when I was hungry you fed me’ and show that entry into heaven is based, at least partially, on such good ‘works’? Certainly you can’t get into heaven if you fail to do them.

And if baptism is unnecesary then why did He get baptised Himself, and why on EARTH did He command His disciples, as the very last thing He said to them on earth, to baptise all nations?

Are the Apostles anywhere shown as converting anyone and then saying ‘go away, your faith is sufficient, you don’t need baptism?’ No - EVERYONE who was converted was also baptised! I think they knew what they were on about when they insisted on this procedure, don’t you?
 
juliamajor said:
Dear frodo- The bible says nowhere Not to baptize babies.Didache is pretty adamant about Baptism that is important enough to use almost any kind of water-including warm and if not much water is available for it to be(heaven forbid) poured over the head three times. the point is that they thought it was important to baptize no matter what.
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The bible says no where not to build an arc, but that still isn’t going to save us from hell if we build one. Only God can save, NOT a ritual or deed.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Any church arrogant enough to claim infallability is elevating it’s self above God and is blasphemy! There are other “churches” that claim to be infallable, how shall I know which one is lying and which one is telling the truth?

I will answer this for you, by reading the bible for myself and letting the Holy Ghost interpret it for me as He does. BTW any church claiming infallability is a false church.
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Well, one Church has to be right. Someone looking into Christianity from the outside would most likely be puzzled as to why God would allow them a 1/33,000 chance at salvation. Think about it…

Yet, in a previous post you contradict yourself. You claim your own personal infallibility. I guess you’re false then, yes?🤷
If I were placing my faith in my church above the word of God, I would believe everything he said, but in my own study (as God commands us to do) in searching the scriptures for myself, I realize that I don’t agree with some things my pastor says.
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Pax Christi
Andrew
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
The bible says no where not to build an arc, but that still isn’t going to save us from hell if we build one. Only God can save, NOT a ritual or deed.
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Really? Jesus not only was baptised himself - He baptised others. It’s there in John 3:22 that He did. Why did He perform this ritual then, if it was unnecessary for salvation? He only had three years of preaching at most, you can bet that there is NOTHING He did or taught us to do by way of baptism, communion and so on, that was not essential!
 
LilyM said:
It’s in the Bible that you don’t need to be good to get into heaven? Then why did Christ tell us to keep His commandments (which include the ten, remember - as He told to the rich young man).

And why did He give us the passage about ‘when I was hungry you fed me’ and show that entry into heaven is based, at least partially, on such good ‘works’? Certainly you can’t get into heaven if you fail to do them.

**What does these verses mean then? I want you to explain it to me.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost**

And if baptism is unnecesary then why did He get baptised Himself, and why on EARTH did He command His disciples, as the very last thing He said to them on earth, to baptise all nations?

As an act of obedience. You can be a Christian and be disobedient. It is an ordinaince.

Are the Apostles anywhere shown as converting anyone and then saying ‘go away, your faith is sufficient, you don’t need baptism?’

No one is saying NOT to baptize. Certainly I wouldn’t go against God’s will and tell you not to get baptized. I am just saying that it is not the salvation. If you get saved and are not baptized, you will still go to heaven.

**You can’t possess the Holy Ghost unless you are saved. Yet these men possessed it BEFORE baptism.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?**

No - EVERYONE who was converted was also baptised! I think they knew what they were on about when they insisted on this procedure, don’t you?

**Even the Ethipian Eunich had to be saved before He was baptized. He had to place His faith in Christ for salvation FIRST, then he was baptized.

Ac 8:6 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Theif on the cross was NEVER baptized, yet Jesus said:

First He admitted to Jesus that He was a sinner:

Lu 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Then he simply asked Jesus to save Him.

Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

It’s that easy. Praise God. All glory to Him (not the church or anyone else)**
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Harpazo said:
Where in the Bible are you given such authority to do that interpreting on your own? Atheists interpret the Bible in ways to try and disprove various Christian doctrines. Muslims do the same to disprove the Trinity.

As for “Catholic Church in the Bible,” Church Militant hit this dead on. I’m a student of Modern Greek, and I can tell you that the phrase “Catholic Church” is in Scripture Acts 9:31. Even though I’m learning modern Greek, the vocabulary between modern and ancient Greek isn’t very different at all.

εκκλησιαι καθ’ όλις means Catholic Church (litterally the Church in agreement with the whole or Universal).

Is Baptist Church in the Bible? There’s an answer, I’d be eager to see.😉

Η ειρήνη του Χριστου να είναι με σου
Andrew
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2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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That says nothing about interpreting Scriptures for yourself. You did not answer my question at all, but rather quoted a verse in which was twisted. Are the millions of millions of Protestants who have an interpretation different from yours saved? How can they be? One might say abortion is ok, and another say it isn’t. Joe Protestant might think women should be preachers while Jane Protestant thinks they don’t need to be. One thinks the rapture will happen before Christ’s return, others believe that it will happen after the tribulation. They all use the same Bible! I could make more examples, if necessary.

I don’t think you understand how dangerous this self-interpretation is. It only divides, and has NEVER unified as Christ intended.

Pax Christi
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
I don’t think you understand how dangerous this self-interpretation is. It only divides, and has NEVER unified as Christ intended.

Pax Christi
Andrew
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This was well said. It makes perfect sense, and it is perfectly reasonable. I have yet to hear any kind of reasoning against this. I am anxious to hear ANY protestant response to this. How can self-interpretation of people from different states of sin, wisdom, character, knowledge, holiness, etc, ever be the same? I just don’t understand.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
If Catholics made a convincing argument there, they will be surely banned by moderators. I don’t think that would be wise since it is common by Non-Catholic Christians to censor Catholics from spreading the true.

I would also like to warn you not to use the term “fundies” since Forum Rules here forbid it.
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That’s not true, they won’t kick you out. Just to let you know that I am a “Fundie” (Mr. mod I won’t use it again, but I had to say it that time)🤷
 
jabelltulsa said:
This was well said. It makes perfect sense, and it is perfectly reasonable. I have yet to hear any kind of reasoning against this. I am anxious to hear ANY protestant response to this. How can self-interpretation of people from different states of sin, wisdom, character, knowledge, holiness, etc, ever be the same? I just don’t understand.
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You see it all the time. People don’t agree on everything, even within any church, including your catholic church. At the same time, if you go to the same source of truth (the bible) and study it though the Holy Spirit, you can understand no matter who you are.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
That’s not true, they won’t kick you out. Just to let you know that I am a “Fundie” (Mr. mod I won’t use it again, but I had to say it that time)🤷
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I hate to tell you this my friend, I got a warning from a CAF moderator here not to use the term** fundies**.

So don’t use it.
 
Ok, I read it. I believe it because it’s in the bible. Why aren’t you willing to believe what I show you from the bible?
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I believe everything that is in the Bible–I just don’t agree with your particular interpretation of what is there.

By the way, I never said we were born again and again and again… I said we transgress again and again (after we have been reborn in spirit and water) and that we keep having to turn to God to ask forgiveness. This involves confessing the sin. You feel that you can do that directly to God, I feel we can do it through the Church that was authorized to bind and loose. It is not like I am coming out of left field here.
Does baptism save?
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Well, the Bible does say that baptism now saves you… but it is not the water doing the saving. It is the Grace of God doing all the work. You seem to have a hang up on Catholics thinking we should do works to earn our way to heaven. This is completely wrong. Sorry, but you seem to have been misinformed about what Catholics believe about works. Works are no good without faith BUT faith is no good without works.
Once we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, we ARE sanctified. That means “set apart” We don’t lose our salvation. I am so glad I don’t live under the fear of hell as many under legalism do.
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The “once saved always saved” theology is very dangerous. For heaven’s sake, if Paul was working out his salvation in fear and trembling, don’t you think we need to “work it out” as well? Why would we even need to worry about putting on our armor if we have nothing to worry about once we’ve accepted the Lord. Why would we rejoice in the hope of salvation (Rom 5:2) rather than rejoice in the assured salvation? According to scripture we have hopeful confidence-- not a presumed certainty. 2 Tim 2:12 says “**if we persevere **we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us. If we are unfaithful he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.” IF we persevere?? That certainly does not sound like “once saved always saved”.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
You see it all the time. People don’t agree on everything, even within any church, including your catholic church. At the same time, if you go to the same source of truth (the bible) and study it though the Holy Spirit, you can understand no matter who you are.
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I hope by this statement you aren’t saying that if someone interprets the Bible differently than you than that means they aren’t studying it through the Holy Spirit. :ehh:
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I hate to tell you this my friend, I got a warning from a CAF moderator here not to use the term** fundies**.

So don’t use it.
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I guess you didn’t read my post. You don’t need to repeat yourself. 👍 It’s not the end of the world…yet. :coffeeread: Actually, that verse should have been rendered “end of the age” but that is another discussion.

I also hate to tell you this, you are going off topic by talking about the word that you say you can’t say but keep saying…“fundie” so please stay on topic.
 
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