How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Milliardo]

If you could lose it, then you don’t KNOW that you have eternal life.

Paul in Romans 8:23-25–We wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this we hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is not hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not have yet, then we wait for it patiently.

That is Paul; do you think you’re better than Paul then?

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus’ point here is that they will not be condemned if they are always with Him; that does not mean that one will eternally be saved if one professes Him and yet lives in sin.

**

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed

unto the day of redemption.

**This is a very poor defense on your part; you notice that before this verse, Paul admonishes his listeners not to sin against God (verses 25-29), and indeed says in verse 30 not to grieve the Holy Spirit. The implication of sinning against Christ is obvious, but chastisement won’t just be the result of it, but Judgment and casting out of His kingdom.

**

Those who believe on the Son (put their faith in the Son) for salvation already have eternal life. Not will have, or could have, but HAVE eternal life.

**

Read again Paul’s point in Romans 8; that is never Paul’s thought.
**

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life

: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

**All of Jesus’ point is that one must believe and abide in Him–obey Him–to be always with Him. It’s not merely knowing Him and having a personal relationship. One who hears Him but does not follow Him will not achieve salvation.

 

[jmcrae]

We are sanctified by His offering of His blood:

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

conclusion: You seem to think that we are washed clean by baptism, but the bible says that it is the blood of Jesus Christ which cleanses us from our sins.

The Sacraments are the “pipelines” through which Christ’s blood comes to us to cleanse us of our sins and to sanctify us.

Christ’s blood comes down through the Sacrament of Baptism to wash the soul clean of Original Sin and any actual sin that may be there, as well. The Sacrament itself is empty without Christ, but Christ is separated from us by a vast gulf, if we are not connected to Him via the Sacraments. Baptism is the initial Sacrament that opens up all of the other Sacraments - it must come first, and then we can participate in the rest of them, in their proper time and order.

 

[Philthy]

If you can be as disobedient a Christian as you like and still be saved, that is “cheap grace”. That is receiving a wedding invitation and showing up in rags (cf. Matthew 22). That is having Jesus as Savior but refusing him as Lord. That is not being his friend, by not keeping his commands (cf. John 15:14). Why would Paul have been writing about sinfulness to the churches he wrote to? Why would Jesus have declared to some of the churches in Revelation 2-3 that they might be cut off?

frodo:

Like I said, it wasn’t cheap grace… If I disobey Him, He chastens me. He may even choose to physically kill a non-fruitful believer which is what being “cut off” is talking about. Paul wanted the people to walk worthy of their calling**.**

Oh I get it now - if we’re disobedient enough God will end our earthly mission of following in the footsteps of Christ and, instead, bring us immediately to Heaven. That is preposterous. Basically you are saying that the worse we live the Christian life, the sooner we get to Heaven.

 

[mercygate]

Oh I get it now - if we’re disobedient enough God will end our earthly mission of following in the footsteps of Christ and, instead, bring us immediately to Heaven. That is preposterous. Basically you are saying that the worse we live the Christian life, the sooner we get to Heaven.

Let me see if I understand frodo: If I sin after I have been saved according to the frodo formula, God might kill me on earth but then I would go directly to heaven anyway? He can’t possibly mean that. Can he?

 

[unacanta]

Let me see if I understand frodo: If I sin after I have been saved according to the frodo formula, God might kill me on earth but then I would go directly to heaven anyway? He can’t possibly mean that. Can he?

Your entrance into heaven is not based upon your sin or lack there of but rather your belief in the Son.
biblegateway.com/

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever [SIGN]believes[/SIGN] in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Jn5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and [SIGN]believes in Him [/SIGN]who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall [SIGN]not come into judgment[/SIGN], but has passed from death into life.

Not only if you believe in Him you shall not come into judgement. I am sure that will step on some spiritual toes, but Jesus is the one who said it, not me.



Unacanta

 

[Gamera]

Your entrance into heaven is not based upon your sin or lack there of but rather your belief in the Son.

“Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” John 7:21.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Your entrance into heaven is not based upon your sin or lack there of but rather your belief in the Son.
biblegateway.com/

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever [SIGN]believes[/SIGN] in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Jn5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and [SIGN]believes in Him [/SIGN]who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall [SIGN]not come into judgment[/SIGN], but has passed from death into life.

Not only if you believe in Him you shall not come into judgement. I am sure that will step on some spiritual toes, but Jesus is the one who said it, not me.



Unacanta

Unacanta, what does it mean to believe in the Son?

Surelly it’s not just simply believing in him, that’s what the Devil does as well. It is rather to believing all he told us and accepting it the way he intended it, isn’t it?

We don’t trully belief in the Son if he tells us to do X but we say that it’s not important or even deny it. We don’t really belief in him if we do not take his commandments to our heart and do our best to follow them (John 14:15).

God bless,
~G

 

[unacanta]

“Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” John 7:21.

Any time our salvation is based upon something we do, then it is not of grace but rather works

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

The fact is our salvation was assured before we ever sinned. It is not like God did not know who we are or what we would do. Hence the Son was sent. There are many verses in the bible relating to this subject.

 

[unacanta]

Unacanta, what does it mean to believe in the Son?

Surelly it’s not just simply believing in him, that’s what the Devil does as well. It is rather to believing all he told us and accepting it the way he intended it, isn’t it?

We don’t trully belief in the Son if he tells us to do X but we say that it’s not important or even deny it. We don’t really belief in him if we do not take his commandments to our heart and do our best to follow them (John 14:15).

Yes, the Devil does believe in Him, however, he was not offered the gift of grace that the sons of men were on the cross. When we say we believe in Him, it is the finished works upon the cross which we believe. The fact that He is Lord is what we believe.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Only by the Holy Spirit can we acknowledge and “believe” in Him, the devil of course does not have the Holy One.

Of course I understand this difference between Catholics and Protestants has been debated for a very long time and yet both sides have not yet changed the other’s mind.

I like an old song called “Farther Along”. One of the lines in it says “Farther along we’ll know all about it. Farther along we’ll understand why.”

Una

 

[RTMirage]

Let me see if I understand frodo: If I sin after I have been saved according to the frodo formula, God might kill me on earth but then I would go directly to heaven anyway? He can’t possibly mean that. Can he?

I was raised fundamental Baptist, that is exactly what he means. I have heard it all my life. It didn’t make sense then and it especially doesn’t make sense now. I came in to the Church in 06 and I will never go back!!!

 

[japhy]

Yes, the Devil does believe in Him, however, he was not offered the gift of grace that the sons of men were on the cross. When we say we believe in Him, it is the finished works upon the cross which we believe. The fact that He is Lord is what we believe.

Where does it say in Scripture “believe in the finished work of Jesus upon the cross”?

I can show you where Paul says Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church. (Col 1:24)

I can also show you where Paul says But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Eph 5:3-5) and Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Col 3:5) and Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

So it seems clear to me that even a one who believes in Jesus Christ yet who persists in fornication or adultery (among other sins) will not inherit the kingdom of God. It is one thing to be forgiven of your sins, and another to actually repent from your sinfulness – remember, Jesus says to us “Go and sin no more”. Entrance into Heaven is indeed based on our conduct and our belief in Jesus Christ.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yes, the Devil does believe in Him, however, he was not offered the gift of grace that the sons of men were on the cross. When we say we believe in Him, it is the finished works upon the cross which we believe. The fact that He is Lord is what we believe.

** John 7:21**
“Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

No, not all who will call Jesus Lord will be saved. It is not simply believing in Jesus’ existence or that he is the Son of God or that he is the Lord. We must accept his teaching as well. We can’t go and say: “Well, I belief in Jesus, I know that he is the Son of God but I’m not willing to accept his teaching on this. I find it too shocking to me. It requires too much faith.” How can you truly truly belief in Jesus and reject what he says? The true salvific belief is composed of belief, submission, love and obedience.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Only by the Holy Spirit can we acknowledge and “believe” in Him, the devil of course does not have the Holy One.

Yet you must aknowledge that a man can aknowledge Jesus as Lord as much as Devil can and not be saved (just as Devil isn’t).

Of course I understand this difference between Catholics and Protestants has been debated for a very long time and yet both sides have not yet changed the other’s mind.

Well, as far as I know, this site is full of ex-protestants. As far as protestanism goes, there is no unity of this teaching. While it’s very popular among the protestants, it’s not accepted by all. So it’s not true that protestants don’t change their mind.

 

[jmcrae]

Any time our salvation is based upon something we do, then it is not of grace but rather works

You are misunderstanding what is meant by the term “works of the law.” St. Paul is not referring to any move that we make, but rather, to those portions of the Law that were fulfilled when Christ was crucified, died, descended to the dead, and then rose again.

Examples include circumcision and the laws of kosher.

It does not mean that we have to become bound and gagged as soon as we make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ, lest we make some move that might be construed as a “good work,” thus nullifying our faith.

The New Testament is full of things that we must do, in order to be considered Christians - they include works of mercy, participating in the Sacraments, and acts of prayer. These things don’t nullify our faith; indeed, they strengthen it.

But, if we go back to the customs of Judaism, then we nullify our faith, because to do so is the same thing as to say that Jesus never died for our sins, and never nullified these particular ceremonies and laws, which were in place as a form of prophecy about Jesus. But when Jesus came, the actions that prophecied about Him were no longer needed - they were replaced with actions that teach us that He has come, and that cause us or help us to enter into His life in Heaven.

 

[unacanta]

Where does it say in Scripture “believe in the finished work of Jesus upon the cross”?

I can show you where Paul says Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church. (Col 1:24)

I can also show you where Paul says But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Eph 5:3-5) and Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Col 3:5) and Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

So it seems clear to me that even a one who believes in Jesus Christ yet who persists in fornication or adultery (among other sins) will not inherit the kingdom of God. It is one thing to be forgiven of your sins, and another to actually repent from your sinfulness – remember, Jesus says to us “Go and sin no more”. Entrance into Heaven is indeed based on our conduct and our belief in Jesus Christ.

The one who “persists in fornication or adultery (among other sins)” probably has not trusted and placed his faith in Christ but only has offered lip service. Paul does of course say in reference to sin should we continue sinning? “Certainly not.”

What I am saying is the “fornication or adultery (among other sins)” was forgiven at the cross whether the sins are of a beliver or non believer.

1Jn2: 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Notice he says not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

One is a foolish person to think that once saved and baptized they will never sin again. As we learn who Christ is and what a gift he has given us, then our lives reflect the change.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Do you really think that Christ did not see our lives and die for all of our sins past, present and future. If so, you are lost because he only offered Himself once as the sacrifice. If your present or future sins are your responsibility then you have missed the Gospel.

Blessings,
Una

 

[japhy]

The one who “persists in fornication or adultery (among other sins)” probably has not trusted and placed his faith in Christ but only has offered lip service. Paul does of course say in reference to sin should we continue sinning? “Certainly not.”

“Probably has not”? You don’t know for sure?

Why would Paul be reminding the churches – which have baptized Christians in them – of the dangers of sin? If there’s no chance they’d fall back into sin that would separate them from Christ, why worry? The epistles are full of exhortations to endure, to remain faithful, to avoid sin, to persevere. The book of Revelation refers to churches that might have their lampstands taken from them! How can you look at Scripture and not see a demand for constant repentance, constant appeals to God for forgiveness, and constant effort to live holy lives worthy of the gift of eternal life?

If we’re forgiven once and for all, why do I hear so many Christians asking God to forgive them their sins? He’s already done that! Why should they ask for it again? Are they doubting their faith?!

Do you really think that Christ did not see our lives and die for all of our sins past, present and future. If so, you are lost because he only offered Himself once as the sacrifice. If your present or future sins are your responsibility then you have missed the Gospel.

Then WHAT is stopping me from CONTINUING in sin if I KNOW it’s not going to effect my salvation one bit?

 

[unacanta]

You are misunderstanding what is meant by the term “works of the law.” St. Paul is not referring to any move that we make, but rather, to those portions of the Law that were fulfilled when Christ was crucified, died, descended to the dead, and then rose again.

Examples include circumcision and the laws of kosher.

It does not mean that we have to become bound and gagged as soon as we make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ, lest we make some move that might be construed as a “good work,” thus nullifying our faith.

The New Testament is full of things that we must do, in order to be considered Christians - they include works of mercy, participating in the Sacraments, and acts of prayer. These things don’t nullify our faith; indeed, they strengthen it.

But, if we go back to the customs of Judaism, then we nullify our faith, because to do so is the same thing as to say that Jesus never died for our sins, and never nullified these particular ceremonies and laws, which were in place as a form of prophecy about Jesus. But when Jesus came, the actions that prophecied about Him were no longer needed - they were replaced with actions that teach us that He has come, and that cause us or help us to enter into His life in Heaven.

Yes, I agree with you to a certain extent. Jesus defines what the works are:
Jn6:28-29
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

The work of God is to believe in Him whom He sent. It is a full time job to be certain.

Yes, there many things which ear mark us as Christians such as you suggested and many good deeds do flow from the works of the Holy Spirit whom leads us. However, we always recognize and understand it is He that is in me that is greater than he that is in the world. It is not Len, but the the Holy one of Israel whom indwells me leads me to paths of righteousness.

Left to my own devices I would never accomplish anything good, I would do only evil all my days. For Rom3:10 says …There is none righteous, not even one

Paul says it best
1COR15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Alas, I must run. I am sure in a few days there will much more said here. Thanks my brothers and sisters, may the Lord be honored in all things.

Len

 

[Milliardo]

Your entrance into heaven is not based upon your sin or lack there of but rather your belief in the Son.

That is not what Jesus said, cf. Matthew 25:31ff. Nor what Paul said, cf. Romans 2:5-8. Nor what is said in Revelation 20:12-13; 22:12. All of them agree that it is our deeds (works) that will be the basis of God’s Judgment.

Jn5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and [sign]believes in Him [/sign]who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall [sign]not come into judgment[/sign], but has passed from death into life.

Some translations use the better term, not come into condemnation, because nowhere is it stated anywhere else that anyone is exempt from God’s Judgment. See the passages above for it. So the just, those who hear and obey Him, will not be condemned. But those who do not obey Him will be condemned.

 

[JimG]

Believing in Christ is also a work: it is something we must do.

Or can we be saved without doing anything? Without making an act of belief in Christ? Without repenting? Without acknowledging Christ as our Lord and Savior? If we have to DO any of those things to be saved, then we are doing some human “work” to effect our salvation.

If we really don’t have to DO any of those things, no works at all, then atheists are saved as well as anti-theists and devil worshipers.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Believing in Christ is also a work: it is something we must do.

Or can we be saved without doing anything? Without making an act of belief in Christ? Without repenting? Without acknowledging Christ as our Lord and Savior? If we have to DO any of those things to be saved, then we are doing some human “work” to effect our salvation.

If we really don’t have to DO any of those things, no works at all, then atheists are saved as well as anti-theists and devil worshipers.

Faith isn’t a work. It is a state of mind toward God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[JimG]

Faith isn’t a work. It is a state of mind toward God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8 says that it is by Grace that you are saved, through Faith.

And you say that Faith is a “state of mind?” Do you have any control over coming to have this state of mind? If you don’t, then there is no way that you can acquire faith, not by any act of the human will–putting your trust in God, accepting Jesus–all of those require an act of the human will.

If you have no control over whether or not you can make an act of Faith, then it is pointless to preach the gospel, as no one, according to you, has any control over their state of mind.