How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[myfavoritmartin]

Ephesians 2:8 says that it is by Grace that you are saved, through Faith.

And you say that Faith is a “state of mind?” Do you have any control over coming to have this state of mind? If you don’t, then there is no way that you can acquire faith, not by any act of the human will–putting your trust in God, accepting Jesus–all of those require an act of the human will.

If you have no control over whether or not you can make an act of Faith, then it is pointless to preach the gospel, as no one, according to you, has any control over their state of mind.

Hbr 11:1, ¶, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Hbr 11:1, ¶, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

…
It is synonymous with trust. It is a divine gift (Rom. 12:3)3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

and comes by hearing the Word of God (Rom. 10:17)17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
.
It is the means by which the grace of God is accounted to the believer who trusts in the work of Jesus on the
cross 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6)6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It is by faith that we live our lives, “The righteous shall live by faith,” (Hab. 2:4 4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom. 1:1717 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[JimG]

It is the means by which the grace of God is accounted to the believer who trusts in the work of Jesus on the cross

But the believer must trust. If the word of God is preached, do you expect a response? A voluntary response, or an involuntary response?

If you expect NO response from the hearer, then all hearers must be saved regardless of their response. If you do expect a voluntary response, then you expect the hearer to DO something.

 

[guanophore]

But the believer must trust. If the word of God is preached, do you expect a response? A voluntary response, or an involuntary response?

If you expect NO response from the hearer, then all hearers must be saved regardless of their response. If you do expect a voluntary response, then you expect the hearer to DO something.

Yes! The hearer must “do the work of God” in order to be saved.

 

[Gamera]

Faith isn’t a work. It is a state of mind toward God.

You think that your state of mind saves you? How is this any different from gnosticism?

 

[Al_Masetti]

Here’s an exercise for you:

Do some research on “humility” and on “false humility”.

HOW does someone put their trust in God? How do you do it? What is the mechanism?

Two useful books:

“Weeds Among the Wheat” by Fr. Thomas Green [Ave Maria Press ]

“The Spiritual Combat … and a Treatise on Peace of Soul” by Dom Lorenzo Scupoli. Tan Books ]

Spiritual Combat was actually first published around 1589 or earlier. But it is so packed full of thought provoking chapters that, like Fr. Green’s book, just reading a few sentences can send the mind reeling.

 

[deanarrca]

Faith
What is Faith

There once was a great tight rope walker. He was doing a performance over Niagra Falls. The tight rope walker had a wheel barrow on the tight rope with him. The wheel barrow was filled with bricks. The tight rope walker yells to the crowd. Who here believes that I can make it across Niagra Falls on this tight rope pushing this wheel barrow full of bricks. The crowd goes wild and cheers. Several men yell out “we believe”!! You can Do It!! Then tight rope walkers says now who really believes and has faith in me that I can take this wheel barrow savely across to the other side. Crowd cheers louder. Several men yell again we have faith in you, we believe. The tight rope walker dumps the bricks out of the wheel barrow. The tight rope walker then asks the crowd, so which of you will volunteer to get in the wheel barrow. Sadly the tight rope walker had no takers.

Faith without action/works is dead and just lip service. If you have truly made Jesus lord and Savior of your life you make the effort to try and take up your cross daily and obey his commands.
1John 1:6
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

After attending very fundamentalist evangelical protestant churches for more than 20 years. that would mean that most, (not all but a good percentage) I have known, that claim once saved always saved, were never really saved!!! However, they truly claim they are saved. They try to witness and tell others how sinful they are, and how to make Jesus Lord and Savior for the forgiveness of their sins, all the while being in grave sin themselves. I have a big problem with that!! Example Jimmy Swaggert when he had his willful adulterous affair. Was he still saved, did he fall away, or was he neverr really saved to begin with?

At least Catholics realize that Christians do continue to sin even after they have made Jesus Christ their Lord and Savior. It is human nature and as Christians we still struggle against the Flesh. That is why even afterwards, repentance is still necessary, obedience is necessary, confession is necessary, and even the Church is necessary. God provided that for us The Church is a hospital for sinners. Catholics don’t claim to be sinless while still sinning.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Let’s let God’s word define faith, not men.

Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We see that faith is believing in something that you can’t see, it is placing your hope, trust, in something you can’t see. That’s what biblical salvation is. Placing your “faith” in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

You think that your state of mind saves you? How is this any different from gnosticism?

Easton’s Bible Dictionary: (LINK)

Faith

Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Php 1:27; 2Th 2:13). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests.

Faith is the result of teaching (Ro 10:14-17). Knowledge is an essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent to faith (Joh 10:38; 1Jo 2:3). Yet the two are distinguished in this respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in addition to the act of the understanding. Assent to the truth is of the essence of faith, and the ultimate ground on which our assent to any revealed truth rests is the veracity of God.

Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements which are regarded as mere facts of history.

Temporary faith is that state of mind which is awakened in men (e.g., Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by the influence of religious sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common operation of the Holy Spirit.

Saving faith is so called because it has eternal life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the words of the Assembly’s Shorter Catechism: “Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel.”

 

[jmcrae]

Faith isn’t a work. It is a state of mind toward God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The Devil has a state of mind toward God, but he is not saved.

Faith manifests itself in action. St. James says, “Show me your faith without works; I will show you my works, and you will discern my faith.”

Someone who believes she can move a mountain will move that mountain - with dynamite, bulldozers, and whatever else it takes. Someone who does not believe it is possible will not even try.

If we believe in God, then we will take the actions that bring us closer to God, and we will do the things that we know to be His will. For example, God does not will that anyone should be poor, so the people of God do things that help to alleviate poverty - yes, these are “good works” but they are not “works of the law” - there is a big difference between the two.

 

[mercygate]

Let’s let God’s word define faith, not men.

Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We see that faith is believing in something that you can’t see, it is placing your hope, trust, in something you can’t see. That’s what biblical salvation is. Placing your “faith” in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

Catholics completely concur with what you have written here. However, it is a limited view that excludes all of the other aspects of what it MEANS to have faith, what it MEANS to be in Christ, what it MEANS to “obey my commandments” – because he did not say ONLY “believe” as if belief were merely an intellectual assent. Mt. 25 is a pretty powerful statement of how belief plays out in our lives.

To me, that means that faith is an action word. James tells us that Abraham was justified by his works and Hebrews, which you quote here, also gives a lengthy list of what faith MEANS; each example is followed by some action that demonstrates and real-izes the faith.

That is why Catholic teaching insists upon a sacramental view: – outward and visible signs of the inward and spiritual grace of faith. Faith without works is dead. Christ came that we might have abundant life.

 

[mikeledes]

The blood that Jesus shed on the cross washes us from our sins:

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Re 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, **purge your conscience **from dead works to serve the living God? {spot: or, fault}

1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

We are washed by the blood of Christ in baptism.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[JimG]

. . .that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will

When Peter preached the first gospel of evangelization on Pentecost, the crowd asked: “What are we to DO?” (my emphasis) His reply: “You must reform and be baptized…that your sins may be forgiven.”

Now he either wanted them to DO something, or to DO nothing.
He wanted them to DO something.

I think that you are not opposed to all works, but only certain ones. Apparently we must DO something to be saved–at the very least make an act of the will. That’s a work. It’s an act of the will. If we do nothing, what is the profit of hearing the gospel?

 

[mikeledes]

Romans 2:6-7

**6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good **seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 5:28-29

28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Revelation 2:26

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations

Galatians 6:7-10

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

The Bible is pretty clear on this issue, frodobaggins.

God Bless,
Michael

I reaffirm what I stated above. Ignoring these verses will not make them go away.

God bless,
Michael

 

[Linkowski]

Catholics completely concur with what you have written here. However, it is a limited view that excludes all of the other aspects of what it MEANS to have faith, what it MEANS to be in Christ, what it MEANS to “obey my commandments” – because he did not say ONLY “believe” as if belief were merely an intellectual assent. Mt. 25 is a pretty powerful statement of how belief plays out in our lives.

To me, that means that faith is an action word. James tells us that Abraham was justified by his works and Hebrews, which you quote here, also gives a lengthy list of what faith MEANS; each example is followed by some action that demonstrates and real-izes the faith.

That is why Catholic teaching insists upon a sacramental view: – outward and visible signs of the inward and spiritual grace of faith. Faith without works is dead. Christ came that we might have abundant life.

But if these visible signs are ritualistic (sacraments) what good is it? It is one thing to submit to going through a ritualistic procedure, it is another thing to give large sums of money because you have faith that you will be raised one day to find that treasure in heaven…or…giving your worldly life away to serve the Lord in a Church - by evangelizing and discipling people, reading God’s Word, praying, teaching Sunday School, simply because you have faith, that by Christ’s great sacrifice, you will have a home in heaven. I know all kinds of Catholics who can go through the ritual - but - they are living this life as if it is the only life they have. That is not faith…their faith is in the ritual itself and not in Christ. BUT - you are correct - faith without works is dead but we are speaking here of works of love - not rituals.

I am not downplaying baptism and other things - these are very very important (we must do them)…BUT…to put your faith IN the ritual itself is wrong. We must DO - but not under grudging obligation - but by the Spirit which is received when one believes…we are justified at the hearing of faith and the Holy Spirit is already present within us prior to baptism.

 

[mercygate]

But if these visible signs are ritualistic (sacraments) what good is it?

Sorry. :tiphat: I knew there could be confusion when I wrote the word “sacramental”. Here I was applying the language of sacramental theology to soteriology (not much of a stretch). God acts in, through, and with creation. Jesus had/has a physical body. Jesus comes to us spirtually and substantially under the form of bread and wine. The point I was attempting to make, but did not do very well, is that God works in time and matter. So must we, this side of the grave. Our acts of love are “sacramental” in that with our bodies and actions we materialize the “spirit” of our faith. Hope that makes it clearer.

It is one thing to submit to going through a ritualistic procedure, it is another thing to give large sums of money because you have faith that you will be raised one day to find that treasure in heaven…or…giving your worldly life away to serve the Lord in a Church - by evangelizing and discipling people, reading God’s Word, praying, teaching Sunday School, simply because you have faith, that by Christ’s great sacrifice, you will have a home in heaven.** I know all kinds of Catholics who can go through the ritual - but - they are living this life as if it is the only life they have. **That is not faith…their faith is in the ritual itself and not in Christ.

I know all KINDS of Christians whose faith appears to be “imperfect.” But that is not for me to judge. This is not a “Catholic” thing. I think you betray a bit of prejudice in framing the matter in this way. No?

BUT - you are correct - faith without works is dead but we are speaking here of works of love - not rituals.

In my statement about the ‘sacramentality’ of faith I was referring to acts of love. Y’know: that list in Mt. 25? *You gave me food, you gave me drink, you welcomed me, you clothed me, you visited me, you came to me. *

Your use of the term “ritualistic procedure,” presumably in reference to the Sacraments of the Church, has a tone that indicates a misunderstanding of Catholic sacramental theology. The sacraments are all instituted by Christ for our spiritual health. They are not merely “ritualistic procedures,” as were the rites of the old Temple. The sacraments actually fulfill the old worship and, by the operation of the Holy Spirit, they impart sanctifying grace and actually effect what they signify. I won’t go off into the difference between valid and fruitful reception of the sacraments here. The point is that God ACTS. God keeps faith. For God, “faith” is an action word.

 

[Philthy]

Let’s let God’s word define faith, not men.

Fair enough.
Heb 11:1:

¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

frodo:

We see that faith is believing in something that you can’t see, it is placing your hope, trust, in something you can’t see.

I dont see anything that discusses believing, hoping, or trusting in the verse. It simply says that it is the SUBSTANCE of HOPE, and the EVIDENCE of things not seen. No more, no less.

frodo:

That’s what biblical salvation is. Placing your “faith” in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

“Placing” your faith? Sounds like a work to me. Care to discuss how and when, exactly, that happens in your theology?
I think that “placing my faith in Jesus” is something I do every single day, throughout the day. When I am confronted with the opportunity to sin and I reject sin by Gods grace conscious of the fact that Christ suffered for my sins, I think of that as part of “placing my faith in Jesus”. It is ongoing and I hope to (and am confident that) I will “persevere to the end” in faithfulness. I will not persevere perfectly, and there are times when, in view of how lavishly God has blessed me and how poorly I have responded to His Grace, that I will realize I have chosen to reject Him and have chosen to place my faith in…my self. But our God is gracious beyond all compare! And if I confess my sins with a contrite heart, pleading for the mercy Christ has provided through the Cross - He will forgive my sins and restore my life with Him.

 

[unacanta]

Believing in Christ is also a work: it is something we must do.

Or can we be saved without doing anything? Without making an act of belief in Christ? Without repenting? Without acknowledging Christ as our Lord and Savior? If we have to DO any of those things to be saved, then we are doing some human “work” to effect our salvation.

If we really don’t have to DO any of those things, no works at all, then atheists are saved as well as anti-theists and devil worshipers.

Again turn to the words of Christ:

**Jn6:28-29
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” **

With a clear understanding of what the works are which we must do that being “believe in Him whom He sent”, then we have that in which our salvation is based.

We can say the atheists as well as anti-theists and devil worshipers all have their sins forgiven. Sin is no longer an issue with God. He was after all in “Christ reconciling the world unto himslelf.” The question is no longer what sins have they commited but have they put their faith in Christ, are they in a place where they"believe in Him whom He sent". The answer is of course no, or at least that is what the outward apperance seems to be.

This is of course a very unsetteling concept for those in the RCC community and even so to some with Protestant. It boils down to basic Christianity 101. You either accept Christ’s finished works upon the cross or you crawl up there and finish the job He has left undone.

Is John 3:16 your scripture or not? Do you accept the forgiveness of Christ for sin or do you want to do something else or in addition to it. As I have stated before, once this very basic concept is accepted then you can move into the abundant life Christ promised where the workings of the Holy Spirit within can lead and teach you all things. Without the acceptance we find ourselves in a place where we have to “do” something and then we then have trampled underfood the Son of Man, made the blood of the covenante of no effect and insulted the Spirit of Grace.

 

[Milliardo]

We can say the atheists as well as anti-theists and devil worshipers all have their sins forgiven.

Now why would God forgive them if, as you stated, they do not believe in Him in the first place? But more importantly…

Sin is no longer an issue with God.

If sin is no longer an issue with God, then no one must be bound for hell, either. However, as can be seen in the Judgment passages, that is simply not true.

The question is no longer what sins have they commited but have they put their faith in Christ, are they in a place where they"believe in Him whom He sent".

You seem to be of the mind that only non-believers are bound to be cast out; you seem to forget that even if you say you proclaim Christ, but still live in sin, you have not totally put your faith in Him nor believe Him, because from belief should also come forth obedience. A person who does not obey does not believe Him.

This is of course a very unsetteling concept for those in the RCC community

nice try, but no–it’s not unsettling for us. What is unsettling for many Protestants, however, is the fact that God will base His Judgment on what we did–our works. That seems to rankle many Protestants. How many times have we gone over the Judgment passages, only to have them ignored or else given convoluted explanations that make little sense? So no, it’s not unsettling for us in any way.

Is John 3:16 your scripture or not? Do you accept the forgiveness of Christ for sin or do you want to do something else or in addition to it.

Have you read up to John 3:21 then? Or understand the whole context of John 3:16? Belief for Christ is not mere acceptance of Him as Lord and Saviour; if that’s all it takes, then Satan must be saved himself since he recognizes Christ as such. Yet Satan and his followers have one big problem–they will not obey Him. They would want Him to obey them, as we saw in the Gospels, but not them obeying Christ.

 

[Zooey]

Look here. I suffer from clinical depression. I take meds for it, but they smooth out the worst of it; they don’t make it up & go away…I have days when I feel like I am the worst person on earth. I have days when my other, physical disabilities, really get to me…(nothing like chronic pain, to mess with your mood).
I have days when I don’t feel like I believe in anything.
But you see, that has nothing to do with the case at point. It doesn’t matter if I feel like a:blush: garden slug, because the truth is, that God is still God, & He is still on the throne…so I go on, going through the motions, because, see, I know that my faith is not about my feelings. It’s not about whether or not I have said the magic words…
This is not Harry Potter land, people. This is the real world, & there are trials & troubles for all of us in it…reagrdless of who we may be, & how we may feel.
So, there just is no magic formula, not at all. There is just following as best I can, trying to be faithful, praying when the Heavens are as brass. That’s life.

Then somebody comes along with yet another sinner’s prayer, or whatever, that is Guaranteed By the Poster, to solve all my problems. I can throw out my medicine, give up trying to folllow after Christ, & be guaranteed a place in Heaven…even if I go bananas one day, & shoot all the neighbors? Even if I commit every sin in the book, I have this Elixiar of Eternal Lfe??
You know what? In my grandmother’s days, they called that “Snake Oil”, and that’s still what it is.
It’s not true, my friend. Its a delusion. I have lived in that kind of world you’re trying to sell me, & I know how it ends up: People keep running up those aisles, getting “saved” all over again,because, you know, you hit your thumb with a hammer, yelled something a good deal more pungent than “ouch!”…and assume that, “geewhillikers, I must not have been really saved the last time, I better do it again”.

Nope. No thank you. It’s the unsteadiest, most fearful existence on the face of the planet.
I will pray my prayers, I will read the Scriptures, I will do my darndest to behave myself, & I will trust in the Saviour & what He said. Not what the latest evangelist or snake-oil salesman tries to say that He said.

Sorry. I trust the Man who died for me. I don’t trust hit & run posters. Ye hae been here aforetime, laddie; ye will drop by again. But unless ye can show me the nailprints in your hands & the sword wound in your side, I will not be buyin’ that as ye are selling.

God bless all here.