How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Gamera]

That’s not in the bible.

Sure it is. “And when he said this, he breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’” John 20:22-23. That’s precisely what Catholic priests do. Do your clergy members do that? If not, why not?

 

[HailMary]

Only the gospel saves. Therefore baptism does not save.

Logical fallacy. You ever took a course in logic before? Highly doubtful.

 

[djrakowski]

He was sent to preach the gospel. Only the gospel saves. Therefore baptism does not save.

Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

If you think that baptism doesn’t save, then you have a quarrel with Jesus. Read Mark 16:16 again, and tell us why you think you know better than Jesus.

Was Jesus speaking Gospel truth in Mark 16:16, or just trying to confuse us? And, Catholics regard the command to be baptized as part of the gospel, so it’s impossible to say that the gospel saves without including all the elements of the gospel that Our Lord instructed as necessary for salvation. It’s the height of arrogance to read Jesus’ words, and then state the complete opposite as truth.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Logical fallacy. You ever took a course in logic before? Highly doubtful.

How is that a logical fallacy?

 

[Gamera]

He was sent to preach the gospel. Only the gospel saves. Therefore baptism does not save.

Baptism is PART of the Gospel.

 

[Lorrie]

I will be back on tonight around 10 p.m. Eastern time.

Can’t wait!

 

[Teflon93]

Talk about picking verses out of the air. This verse is talking about “true faith” in Christ produces fruit/works. It is not saying that works save. This is proven throughout the bible…

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(KJV

Ro 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them

Hmm—you seem to have jumped some verses (and books) here. Does the language in between matter?

 

[Gamera]

I will be back on tonight around 10 p.m. Eastern time.

For what it’s worth, I know exactly what it’s like to be “one against a dozen” — it’s very hard for one person to reply simultaneously to numerous posters voicing a different opinion. I’ve been in an analogous position as the only Catholic surrounded by Evangelicals. so I can relate. You’re doing quite well at presenting your position (it just is incorrect). I hope we didn’t gang up on you too much.

 

[Mannyfit75]

xfrodobagginsx:

Only the gospel saves. Therefore baptism does not save.

WRONG!

St. Peter disagrees with you.

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

1 Peter 3:21-22

 

[AngelRose81]

I think this poll is completely misleading. How can you separate the Church and Jesus Christ? Do you think the two divorce?

Such a strange assumption. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. The Church is also the Bride of the Lamb.

I agree. I chose other because of that reason and several others. IMHO, there wasn’t a choice that was correct. Jesus, the Church, keeping our spirituality intact by praying to Mary & the Saints for their intercession, faith & works (because each without the other is dead), recieveing the Sacraments, and soooooo many other things will help me get to heaven.

 

[Church_Militant]

Do you have a genuine realationship with Jesus Christ? Have you placed your faith in Him and what He did on the cross to pay for your sins?

Geeze! Yes, I certainly have. Who are you to judge?

Where does the bible say that “the church” is the pillar and ground of truth? It says that Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father, but through Him.

Black Knight MI quoted that verse to you in his post Frodo. It’s right there in 1st Timothy 3:15. 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Joh 14:6 (NKJV) Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me

.No arguments from the Catholics!

What does the above verse mean? Just read it and please explain it to me. He doesn’t meantion the church, baptism, being good or anything other that Jesus Christ.

It doesn’t have to…but then since you seem to have a problem with knowing what the Word of God says, let me break it down for you so you can see how oversimplified your “Way of Salvation” post is.

Acts 2:38: And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts Chapter 22:16: And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Clearly you have made less of the Gospel of Christ than the Word of God does.

Notice also the great commission:
Matthew Chapter 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Looks like there’s a lot more than just your oversimplified Romans Road tract message…

 

[fnr]

Unfortunately, I think the poll is a little too simplistic. “Be good” has many definitions, from an objective sense of good (deotological or consequential) to a subjective, centerless one that changes at every moment. Trusting in “The Church” also has different connotations is that individual clergy, the bishops, the people, the institution, or the “one body?”

I also have concerns that too many people focus on getting to heaven as their primary motivation for spirituality. I think thirsting for holiness, embracing the sacraments, and doing good works for their own sake have a much more powerful appeal that calculating the best way to get to heaven. In some sense, I think that a true sanctification of one’s heart is a much more grueling thing that involves less a desire to get to heaven, as a true effort to give up your own will and trust God in everyday life.

 

[Church_Militant]

**There is no where in the bible that says that we can lose our salvation. **

It DOES give us assurance.
…
If you can lose it, then do you Know that you have eternal life? No. You can’t lose it.
…Does it? I disagree…
Revelation Chapter 3:5: He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

To be blotted out of the book of life…one’s name has to be in there to begin with.

 

[Church_Militant]

By the way, the reason that I don’t believe in praying to anyone accept Jesus and the Father is found in the bible as well. We also don’t need a priest to confess our sins to. We go directly to God.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and **one mediator **

between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

A mediator is a go between and the bible says there is only ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.Another topic…another thread… Open it and we’ll deal with that.

 

[djrakowski]

Clearly you have made less of the Gospel of Christ than the Word of God does…

Looks like there’s a lot more than just your oversimplified Romans Road tract message…

And yet, somehow, we’re the ones always getting accused of not knowing sacred scripture…

 

[Church_Militant]

A funny bit of irony in your choice of username…
Tolkien was a very devoted Catholic gentleman. His Hobbit/LOTR series of books was based somewhat on Catholic Christian teaching and biblical narrative.

Was just thinking that he sure messed up when he picked that name.

Tolkein was a very devout Catholic who actually was greatly instrumental in the conversion of his close friend C.S. Lewis.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<You think the church will get you to heaven and not Jesus Christ Himself? I don’t get it. Could you please explain why? The bible says otherwise.>>

You think there’s an inherent opposition between the Church and Jesus Christ Himself? I don’t get it. Could you please explain why? The bible says otherwise.

 

[fnr]

Doesn’t “Gospel” simply mean “good news?” It’s easier for the sola scripturalists to call the gospel a book than a message.

 

[Church_Militant]

Going to church or belong to a specific denomination doesn’t get you to heaven. By trusting in Christ you become the true church. There are people from every denomination in the true church.

Really?

Then why are there so many different Gospels being preached by so many different n-C churches, who all assert that they preach the truth of the Gospel and yet do not agree with each other nor with us nor with the verifiable historical writings of the early church, who said things like this from St. Ignatius of Antioch.
Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD]

Epistle to the Smyraeans
CHAPTER VII.–LET US STAND ALOOF FROM SUCH HERETICS.
Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD]
Epistle to the Smyraeans
They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
Ignatius of Antioch [50-117 AD]

CHAPTER VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

This guy was a close friend & disciple of St. John, and the bishop of the church in Antioch and was a martyr for the faith.

You tell him he was wrong…

 

[Church_Militant]

Than why pray to mary? Than why confess to a priest? Jesus Christ is the mediator (go between) no one else is even permitted to do it. I will pray exclusively to God.

Again… another topic for another thread. You open it and we’ll get all into it with you. Here…it only derails your thread.