How To Handle Abusive In-laws And Family?

[sparkle]

OutinChgoburbs:

It’s the “nice” syndrome, as in “We have to be nice, or people won’t like us.” We don’t have to be nice about everything- such as being abused.

I know OUTIN: I’ve been perplexed with the “nice” syndrome my whole life. My wonderful Godly parents, as wonderful as they are, have always put it on me that "I must be “Nice” to everyone, I “Must” include even abusive people in my life, that it’s the “Christian” thing to do. It’s been a real lesson for me OutinC. My own MOm, a preachers wife, Knowing and truly understanding all the abuse I’ve taken my whole marriage from my in-laws, still has said "You Must invite them for X-mas eve…“they’d be so hurt”…I always did thinkin it was the right thing to do. My mom, sweet as she is, never has taken a stand for anything that’s right. She always has to be the peacemaker, hear everyone’s side, a real “people pleaser”…if everyone doesn’t love her, oh that would be terrible. Why she even insists she HAS to remain friends with one of my sister’s x-husbands. She brags on the phone how she’s had long phone conversations with him, how "he’s confided in her, things he’s told no one, and tells my sis this. This hurts my sis very much. There is no loyalty. So I’ve learned where it all is coming from. Sometimes even though we think our families are so wonderful, it’s so important to truly SEE them. So, yes, I’ve been taught my entire life, I must be “nice” to everyone, to just “kill em with kindness” those whom abuse and walk all over us.

 

[sparkle]

LSK:

What? What was your 15 year old doing with a telephone at the dinner table?
And no, when kids get to be 15 they do NOT end up doing what they want to anyway.

Ask your husband what he would like you to do regarding his family. Don’t tell him “NO I WON’T DO THAT AT ALL”. Just ask him what/how he would have you behave if he could push a button and totally control you actions and your words. Have him write it down. You do the same. Without looking at each other’s writing, fold the papers in half, get on your knees and say the following prayer together:

Dear Jesus, here is a list of what I want from my spouse. I know that I have no control over his/her behavior; however, their behavior is causing me pain. Please relieve my obsession with this and direct my attention to how I may be of service to You, My Lord and My Savior. Amen.

SAY THE PRAYER

Take your lists to the counselor and show them to him/her. It should make for a lively session.

Probably not.

Try the writing exercise. Really spit it all out on a piece of paper. DO NOT SHOW IT TO YOUR HUSBAND and DO NOT LOOK AT HIS PAPER ON YOU.

I had to do this several times over an issue in my life. It helped me concretely ‘give this over to Jesus’.

Thank you LSK!!!

 

[mumto5]

That’'s what I thought too. Why is the cellphone at the table?

 

[sparkle]

mumto5:

That’'s what I thought too. Why is the cellphone at the table?

Good point. He keeps it in his pocket and just pulled it out that night. I’ve always not allowed reading magazines and stuff at the dinner table, think I’ll include “no cell phones” too!

Thanks for the mention of it!!!

 

[sparkle]

Thanks to whoever told me about the book “Toxic In-Laws” by Dr. Susan Forward. I’m reading it now and it’s really great. Has made me realize something most important. A line in the book says: “toxic in-laws honed their skills as being toxic parents”. This gave me alot of sympathy for my husband, in that he really was abused as a child by his parents. Not physically of course, but psychologically. I can really see his parents want to keep him in that helpless role, of "needing" them so much. They must be very unhappy folks with a big problem.

Don’t ask me why I even phoned in-laws today…hummmmmm guess I started feeling sorry for them

 

[mumto5]

sparkle:

Thanks to whoever told me about the book “Toxic In-Laws” by Dr. Susan Forward. I’m reading it now and it’s really great. Has made me realize something most important. A line in the book says: “toxic in-laws honed their skills as being toxic parents”. This gave me alot of sympathy for my husband, in that he really was abused as a child by his parents. Not physically of course, but psychologically. I can really see his parents want to keep him in that helpless role, of "needing" them so much. They must be very unhappy folks with a big problem.

Don’t ask me why I even phoned in-laws today…hummmmmm guess I started feeling sorry for them

Glad you found it helpful One thing I realised about my husband was that having lived with the stuff they dish out all his life, it took him a lot longer to see what was happening as it was just normal to him.

 

[sparkle]

mumto5:

Glad you found it helpful One thing I realised about my husband was that having lived with the stuff they dish out all his life, it took him a lot longer to see what was happening as it was just normal to him.

Yes, most definately mumto5: Isn’t this the truth? I showed some portions of the book to H, I think he was totally shocked really, but could relate and understand. Again, he looked for a way to deny it a bit, saying “well the author of course is a woman, so it’s written from a woman’s point of view”. Well blah, blah, blah. I know he’s taken a hard look lately at perhaps how he was raised, etc. And it hasn’t been easy for him. It must be tough to know the way you were raised was really the pitts. I cannot even imagine!!! The author of this book “Toxic In-Laws” says: “In-laws or people in general would not be toxic if they were open, big-hearted people with love to give, love to share, healthy, and have full lives”. Yes, I see this. If they were, they would not be so toxic. My parents are this way. They’re wonderful, giving folks. My H’s family is just the opposite.

Tell me somebody. A B-day is coming up in our family. Have invited some friends over. Why do I still feel the need to invite these toxic people? Sent out invites today and invited them, yikes. Guess I feel sorry for them in that they’re my kids’ grand-parents. What is my problem? Luckily it’s late at night,just for cake and coffee----not too long of an affair, just a drop-in type event. Would you all have just ignored toxic folks and excluded them from such B-days? I’m such a sap. Always seem to invite abuse. Don’t know why.

 

[Princess_Abby]

sparkle:

Tell me somebody. A B-day is coming up in our family. Have invited some friends over. Why do I still feel the need to invite these toxic people? Sent out invites today and invited them, yikes. ** I’m such a sap. Always seem to invite abuse. Don’t know why**.

These sort of questions need to be worked out in counseling. We do things because we get a pay-off from it, whether or not we claim to like it.

I suspect that you have a misconception about what it means to be a “Christian woman” and in some ways find joy in your suffering–which is fine in an appropriate context, but asking for abuse from your in-laws again and again is not legitimate suffering, it’s glorified martyrdom that you choose for yourself. Perhaps things do not change in your household because it makes you feel righteous to be the victim, and therefore make choices to perpetuate the situation? You know exactly what to expect from these people but continue to set up situations and circumstances in which for them to inflict their poison upon you.

I do not mean this in harsh way whatsoever. It is also only humble opinion. I think that being the victim has become both your role and coping mechanism in a very frustrating marriage, which is highly understandable. However, if you truly want to change it then you have the power to explore doing so.

 

[La_Chiara]

sparkle:

Why do I still feel the need to invite these toxic people? Sent out invites today and invited them, yikes. Guess I feel sorry for them in that they’re my kids’ grand-parents. What is my problem? Luckily it’s late at night,just for cake and coffee----not too long of an affair, just a drop-in type event. Would you all have just ignored toxic folks and excluded them from such B-days? I’m such a sap. Always seem to invite abuse. Don’t know why.

You are not a sap. You just hope against hope that they will change and learn to love you and appreciate you. Have you heard the old saw that “the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome”? To some degree it is true. But as Catholic Christians, we believe in having hope and we believe that God never gives up on us–that we as sinners can always repent and be redeemed. Giving up on family members is not the most charitable or kind response. (I do recognize that sometimes estrangement is necessary, but that should be absolutely the last resort.)

I think you are right to invite your in-laws to your family event, even though they probably won’t change. And you are right to keep it short–to limit the damage that can be done. God is keeping score and he approves of your attempts to maintain some relations with your husband’s family!

 

[mumto5]

sparkle:

Tell me somebody. A B-day is coming up in our family. Have invited some friends over. Why do I still feel the need to invite these toxic people? Sent out invites today and invited them, yikes. Guess I feel sorry for them in that they’re my kids’ grand-parents. What is my problem? Luckily it’s late at night,just for cake and coffee----not too long of an affair, just a drop-in type event. Would you all have just ignored toxic folks and excluded them from such B-days? I’m such a sap. Always seem to invite abuse. Don’t know why.

I agree with the others. You invite them because it is the ‘proper thing’ to do and because you hope that this time it will be different - or that inviting them will help build a more positive relationship. Yes, they are the kids grandparents but do they have a negative effect on your children? Will they try the same toxic things on your children?

One thing I will disagree with is the need to martyr yourself by continuing to invite them. I got sick of every birthday being spoiled by the inlaws and feeling uncomfortable at my own children’s parties which were supposed to be a special time. That was not how I wanted to remember them. I won’t go into the details but I think there is a place for not inviting them. You wouldn’t invite a friend or neighbour who kept upsetting things, and while I think the tolerance for such things is a bit higher with family, I decided we weren’t going to do the same with them either. It has been worth it and the children are happier without them there too.

I still hope that things will get better and one day we may be able to build a positive relationship with them. As I’ve said, I know I have exhausted every possible means I have of doing this and have left the ball in their court. I do hope an approach will come from them at some stage.

 

[sparkle]

Princess_Abby:

I suspect that you have a misconception about what it means to be a “Christian woman” and in some ways find joy in your suffering–which is fine in an appropriate context, but asking for abuse from your in-laws again and again is not legitimate suffering, it’s glorified martyrdom that you choose for yourself. Perhaps things do not change in your household because it makes you feel righteous to be the victim, and therefore make choices to perpetuate the situation? You know exactly what to expect from these people but continue to set up situations and circumstances in which for them to inflict their poison upon you.

Gosh-----perhaps you’re right? Of course I DO NOT want to be a “victim” or a martyr----who would? And I certainly do not want to feel uncomfortable in my own home with these folks. Guess, it’s mostly guilt I feel because they are my kids grandparents, uncles, and H’s parents. I feel guilty for disliking them, even though they are terrible to me. Perhaps I’m doing it for H’s sake. And for my children’s sake. Grandfolks always bring them presents on their B-days of course-----and it’s not fair to keep them from this. (Even though I would just like to say “send your B-day presents”). I invited some other people over too, besides them, hopefully it will make things better–more casual. Thx PA

 

[sparkle]

La Chiara:

You are not a sap. You just hope against hope that they will change and learn to love you and appreciate you. Have you heard the old saw that “the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome”? I think you are right to invite your in-laws to your family event, even though they probably won’t change. And you are right to keep it short–to limit the damage that can be done. God is keeping score and he approves of your attempts to maintain some relations with your husband’s family!

I don’t care at this point if they like me or not and I KNOW they’ll never change. Guess I invited them cuz they’re still my kids’ grandparents, and they have a right to see them, (for a B-day) on our terms, in our home, for a short time. Appreciate your reply LaChiara!!!

 

[sparkle]

mumto5:

I agree with the others. You invite them because it is the ‘proper thing’ to do and because you hope that this time it will be different -
NO. That really isn’t it Mum. I know nothing will ever be different.

One thing I will disagree with is the need to martyr yourself by continuing to invite them. QUOTE]

What do you mean? Am I dense here? Am I doing this? I would like to understand what this means? Could you help explain what you mean by the need to “martyr myself”? I don’t get it. It doesn’t sound right–that’s for sure.

 

[Princess_Abby]

sparkle:

Gosh-----perhaps you’re right? Of course I DO NOT want to be a “victim” or a martyr----who would? And I certainly do not want to feel uncomfortable in my own home with these folks. Guess, it’s mostly guilt I feel because they are my kids grandparents, uncles, and H’s parents. I feel guilty for disliking them, even though they are terrible to me. Perhaps I’m doing it for H’s sake. And for my children’s sake. Grandfolks always bring them presents on their B-days of course-----and it’s not fair to keep them from this. (Even though I would just like to say “send your B-day presents”). I invited some other people over too, besides them, hopefully it will make things better–more casual. Thx PA

It’s perfectly understandable to include the in-laws for your children’s sake. However, this all comes down to the idea of boundaries that we discussed before. You have a right to courtesy. If they choose not to be courteous to you, then you have the right to not accept that–if you so choose. You are not tied to any chair in their presence and forced to endure criticism and unkindness (though it may feel that way sometimes). But choosing to accept only courtesy from them requires setting expectations and then following through when they cross a boundary–by belittling you or whatever else they do.

You are what the Boundaries book would call “the compliant.” Meaning that setting boundaries is extremely difficult for you because the guilt you feel is overwhelming for doing so. You don’t have to stop inviting the in-laws ever again, silly Sparkle, you just don’t have to feel obligated to invite their abuse at every and any opportunity. Only you know if it’s best kept to major holidays, or minor holidays, or monthly get-togethers, etc. I don’t know how often you see them, for what extent of time, etc. It only sounds like whatever you’re doing now isn’t working for you, so maybe reconsider what might be a good compromise for your emotional health.

There are three types of boundaries that I’ve been taught: Enmeshed, healthy and rigid.

Enmeshed is when the dynamic “requires everyone to follow the rule that everyone must do everything together and that everyone is to think, feel, and act in the same way. No one is allowed to deviate from the family or group norms. Everyone looks homogeneous. Uniqueness, autonomy and idiosyncratic behaviors are viewed as deviations from the norm.” (Taken from a website I’ll post at the end. The part that seemingly applies to you is the idea that you MUST invite your in-laws to EVERY event, big or small, because that is what you have ALWAYS done and can’t imagine starting new traditions or breaking out of the mold. The other part is that you have mentioned your MIL has extreme difficulties with ways in which you live your life that is slightly different than her preference.)

Then there is the concept of rigid boundaries, whether intentional or not, put in place as a protective or defensive measure to keep from being trampled upon during interaction. This is when there is no relationship and all contact is cut off. Sometimes this can be necessary for a time, and other times this way of coping is unfair and avoidant.

Healthy boundaries are when mutual respect exists and we feel safe interacting. We know that someone is not seeking to hurt us, we know they have our best intentions at heart. We enjoy spending time with the people we have healthy boundaries with because we know they care for us and they are confident we care for them, even if there is still disagreement or ways of thinking that differ.

coping.org/innerhealing/boundary.htm

Please look at this website and also notice the signs that boundaries are being crossed–victimhood/martyrdom are listed.

 

[mumto5]

sparkle:

I don’t care at this point if they like me or not and I KNOW they’ll never change. Guess I invited them cuz they’re still my kids’ grandparents, and they have a right to see them, (for a B-day) on our terms, in our home, for a short time. Appreciate your reply LaChiara!!!

Re: The martyr comment. I wasn’t suggesting that you were doing that. I was referring to a comment made by another poster.

Now to this comment…you inlaws do not have a inherent right to see their grandchildren. Sometimes their presence can be detrimental to the children - especially if they start repeating their toxic patterns with your children. If they are given the chance to play their emotional games it can do real damage to children. Being a grandparent is a priviledge, not a right. Not that I’d ever refuse a grandparent/grandchild relationship without a very, very strong reason…but there are cases where you can keep the grandparents at arms length and would be wrong not to do so.

In time, the children will start to see for themselves anyway. They are not blind. My 11 year old daughter caught my MIL in a lie and asked why she was so mean to daddy and me. We have always been upfront wit h them about why they are not seeing their grandparents and they know that it was the inlaws choice to distance themselves, because we refused to play along with their emotional games and be bullied, and they also know we are always open to working it out when the grandparents decide they are ready.

It’s fair that if your inlaws are to be in your life they should respect you and treat you fairly. Maybe your husband has to have a talk with them? Don’t do it yourself as it will just be used against you.

 

[sparkle]

Hi mumto5 and PA:

You guys especially are real friends, and I do appreciate your responses so very much. I’ve tried to post several times, and the screen comes up white and freezes. What is the deal here? I any event, I so much appreciate your insight into my situation. Thank you. I have realized alot about what it means (finally) about being mature, setting boundaries, etc., and taking a stand for your marriage. I’ve been so dense it seems, but I think now finally I am on the road to more maturity, with God’s help. Please pray for this B-day celebration on 9/9, in which I invited my in-laws to, and this abusive BIL to, which we had the blow up last week. Perhaps I had a couple too many glasses of wine when I wrote out the invites. Yes. Stupid really. Oh well. Hopefully it will be a good evening all the same. We all live and learn I guess, right? Many Blessings~~

P.S. mumto5: I really do agree with your comment above that grandparenting is a privilege, NOT a right. I’ve been trained differently, thinking no matter WHAT, I had the obligation to invite my abusive in-laws to everything. And I should just swallow the abuse and “kill em with kindness”–my mom always laid into me to do. Perhaps my own mom has taken on the role of the “pastor’s wife,” and the martyr. Yes, I see it. This has been passed on to me, unknowingly. I want to be more aware here. Thank you all.

 

[LSK]

The most important thing to remember is to do everything from the position of Catholic Christian Charity. Also, just a thought: Grandparents have been granted legal rights in some areas of the law in terms of visitation and contact. Nowadays just about everyone has a shot at being considered a ‘protected class’ and grandparents are no different.
I read the book Toxic Parents about 15 years ago when it first came out. I remember thinking how great it was to have validation and good reason to no longer have to deal with my father. He had been a horrible father, verbally abusive and immoral, and I read a kind of ‘permission slip’ in the book; a permission slip to reject him completely and feel justified while doing it.
I will also tell you that, while following the 4th step process of AA was a lot more difficult it was more cleansing and - ultimately - allowed me to be the only one of my father’s children to have a good relationship with him.
The 12 Steps have been compared to the discipline developed by St. Ignatius of Loyola. I would urge you to temper the book you are reading with the ‘thorough and fearless moral inventory’ I previously suggested. You may discover, as I did, what it means to be rocketed into a fourth dimension of spirituality.

And, it will drive your in-laws NUTS when you are no longer bothered by their goofy behavior.

 

[mumto5]

LSK:

Grandparents have been granted legal rights in some areas of the law in terms of visitation and contact. Nowadays just about everyone has a shot at being considered a ‘protected class’ and grandparents are no different.

These laws are primarlily there due to the increase in grandparents being spitefully alienated from grandchildren through divorce or seperation. There has to be a pre-existing relationship so if the grandparents have made no effort, it won’t help. In cases where the parents are both still married and have made a reasoned decision not to involve the grandparents, the judge won’t over-rule the parents decision. So thankfully, these laws don’t just give grandparents free claim on their grandchildren.

 

[dhgray]

HI sparkle
I know the feeling (sort of) as I am the only Catholic in the family and my Evangelical Brother and Sisters let me know how they feel about Catholics. I have limited contact with them. That is my recommendation to you. Limit the contact your sons has with anyone who makes them question your authoirty.

AGAIN, Here is where CFC can help you and your family. CFC became my family in the supportive sense. We now hang out with Catholic Chrsitian brothers and sisters. Men and women who help us live out our Christian beliefs. Our Children are involved with the CFC-Youth and CFC-Kids ministries.

Sparkle, please PM me the area of the city you live in and contact information. I know we can help you. We can’t make your BIL or abusive family go away, but we can give you strength and support for when you have to face them.

 

[sparkle]

dhgray:

HI sparkle
I know the feeling (sort of) as I am the only Catholic in the family and my Evangelical Brother and Sisters let me know how they feel about Catholics. I have limited contact with them. That is my recommendation to you. Limit the contact your sons has with anyone who makes them question your authoirty.

AGAIN, Here is where CFC can help you and your family. CFC became my family in the supportive sense. We now hang out with Catholic Chrsitian brothers and sisters. Men and women who help us live out our Christian beliefs. Our Children are involved with the CFC-Youth and CFC-Kids ministries.

Sparkle, please PM me the area of the city you live in and contact information. I know we can help you. We can’t make your BIL or abusive family go away, but we can give you strength and support for when you have to face them.

Thanks Davis. But for now, my 15yo is starting confirmation program this month, I’m heliping in it, and I’m starting a women’s bible study and can only do so much. I appreciate so much the advice, and I will look into it for sure. I know it’d be great to be in a couples group. I’ll look into it for sure. It this organization Catholic Davis?