Hugo Chavez, fiery Venezuelan leader, dies at 58

[YKohen]

Didn’t you know? It takes a real “not-anti-semitic” person to authoritatively list which particular negative behaviors Jews are prone to.

If there’s one thing that tells you someone isn’t anti-semitic, it’s that.

I would respond, but my nose keeps getting in the way. How annoying!

 

[Northumbrian]

Chavez was an anti-Semite.

I certainly wasn’t suggesting that you are overzealous with the word “anti-semite”.

I expect I have used the term more often than you have: Especially with members of certain conspiracy movements: New Age groups, Militia groups, White Supremacy groups as well as Nationalist groups etc.

Undoubtedly there has been a lot of anti-semitism in Venezuala but Chavez condemned it, did he not? He certainly could have done more to stamp it out, but it is worth bearing in mind that he was facing considerable opposition and interference from foreign parties

He was undoubtedly very vocal in his crticism of the Israeli government, but that does not make one anti-Semetic, as I am sure you would agree.

Unfortunately valid criticism of Israeki policies does sometimes attract support from anti-semites.

The 20% figure seems alarming but one has to question whether that was always becasue of anti-senitism. Other factors such as the economic upheaval and restructuring may have encouraged departure in some cases. 4000 in the 21st century seems a lot (and it is) but less than that of France during the same period.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_France#Today

Does that make the Chirac an anti-semite?

 

[YKohen]

Undoubtedly there has been a lot of anti-semitism in Venezuala but Chavez condemned it, did he not?

If you follow the links that I provided, he was behind many of the anti-Semitic problems, and certainly exacerbated any anti-Semitism that was there.

FYI: My parents went to Caracas in the early 70s on vacation and didn’t feel any anti-Semitism.

He was undoubtedly very vocal in his crticism of the Israeli government, but that does not make one anti-Semetic, as I am sure you would agree.

Of course. I also criticize my government.

Unfortunately valid criticism of Israeki policies does sometimes attract support from anti-semites.

And non-valid criticism as well.

The 20% figure seems alarming but one has to question whether that was always becasue of anti-senitism. Other factors such as the economic upheaval and restructuring may have encouraged departure in some cases. 4000 in the 21st century seems a lot (and it is) but less than that of France during the same period.

True, but having spoken to a number of Jews who left, it was anti-Semitism that caused them to leave. Once the government was a part of it, they no longer saw a future for Jews there.

In terms of them vs. French Jews, it’s apples and oranges because Venezuela has so few Jews compared to France; I think something like 1/25th the size.

And French Jews who left France also are doing so largely because of anti-Semitism. I have quite a few French neighbors. Others who aren’t leaving France have bought apartments in Israel in the past few years; so many that in areas where they concentrate, real estate prices have skyrocketed.

Does that make the Chirac an anti-semite?

Nope.

 

[stevegravy]

All I hope for is after Chavez is freeze dried and vacuum packed he is dolphin safe. And I hope his family is consoled by the 2 billion he swiped from the nationalized industries he took only in equal compensation he earned helping the poor underclass.

 

[SamH]

FWIW, Stalingrad was the turning point of WWII in my opinion.

On a scale of events that changed WWII, Stalingrad takes precedence followed by the Battle of Britain.

Both of these events showed that the Allies when attacked on their own territory, Britain and the USSR respectively repelled the enemy and emboldened the Allies to go on to prevail in WWII.

The sacrifice of Soviet lives in the defeat of Nazi Germany is beyond belief.

Not nearly so great as the number of Russian lives sacrificed to appease the paranoia of Joseph Stalin.

 

[ephesians4]

Not nearly so great as the number of Russian lives sacrificed to appease the paranoia of Joseph Stalin.

Indeed, the scale of his murder surpassing even the Holocaust itself many times over. That’s Communism™ though, I guess - simultaneously the most murderous man-made evil the world has ever known, and proud of itself for being so nice.

Topical, I think.

 

[SamH]

Indeed the American forces involved in D day were almost as many (over 70 tousand men) as the British (over 80 000) that landed tat day on Normandy IIRC.

I notice you failed to include the two American Airborne Divisions in your numbers.

And how many of those British **and Canadian **troops made it to the beaches riding US built landing craft, in US produced boots and uniforms armed with weapons built in the US?

The Soviets also marched to war in US made boots and uniforms and rode in Studebaker trucks.

 

[ephesians4]

I notice you failed to include the two American Airborne Divisions in your numbers.

And how many of those British **and Canadian **troops made it to the beaches riding US built landing craft, in US produced boots and uniforms armed with weapons built in the US?

The Soviets also marched to war in US made boots and uniforms and rode in Studebaker trucks.

I agree. I thought it was such a staggeringly misrepresentative thing to say that I tried to pen a charitable reply about four times before giving up.

God bless every soldier, in uniform and out of it who helped defeat the nazis.

 

[Northumbrian]

I notice you failed to include the two American Airborne Divisions in your numbers.

Well you failed to notice IIRC that I wrote which stands for If I Remember Correctly.

This is usually used to indicate that one is posting without using references.

Which means my mistake was not deliberate. But I will be happy to go over the figure in precise detail when I ahve finished work.

I fear, however, that anything and everything I post may get interpreted as somehow designed to understate America’s role, no matter what my genuuine intention.

Sad.

 

[SamH]

FWIW, Stalingrad was the turning point of WWII in my opinion.

On a scale of events that changed WWII, Stalingrad takes precedence followed by the Battle of Britain.

Both of these events showed that the Allies when attacked on their own territory, Britain and the USSR respectively repelled the enemy and emboldened the Allies to go on to prevail in WWII.

The sacrifice of Soviet lives in the defeat of Nazi Germany is beyond belief.

The British and Americans actually destroyed and/or captured a larger army in Tunis that what the Soviets encircled and captured in Stalingrad. The North African Campaign also destroyed the Italian and German navies operating in the Mediterranean Sea while bleeding off thousands of aircraft that otherwise could have been supporting Axis Forces in the Soviet Union.

 

[SamH]

Well you failed to notice IIRC that I wrote which stands for If I Remember Correctly.
(

Please, accept my schooling free of charge.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The sacrifice of Soviet lives in the defeat of Nazi Germany is beyond belief.

Not to mention the sacrifice of Soviet lives under Lenin and Stalin.

 

[stevegravy]

Sorry for the long post but as you argue over who won WWII……

Let’s first admit WWII is over and is about as dead as the dinosaurs, soon there will not be anyone left alive that was born during the conflict much less old enough to remember the daily goings on of life at the time. All you re-hashers will have is paper and video records to argue over. FWIW, IMHO, the war in Europe was decided about one to two months into operation Barbarossa when the German army failed to achieve a 10 to 1 lose ratio with the Soviet Union armed forces, civilians don’t count. During this period when entire Soviet armies were being surrounded and mass prisoners were being taken, the best the Germans achieved was 6 to 1 and that meant they would lose the war of attrition.

Another turning point possibly, about 6 months later the idiot running Germany made the mistake of declaring war on the US. Why was that wrong, it decided the fate of the battle of the Atlantic. The Germans had lost their cipher machine early in the war and the dumbies never figured out the Brits were listening in. Roosevelt made a priority of sinking the German subs, prior to the declaration of war US navy rules of engagement were more restrictive. It has been reported that the Germans were within 4-6 ships per month of starving Briton into submission. Those two points were the deciding moment for the European theater. And yes I know the Royal navy carried the majority of the load in the Battle for the Atantic but the US navy did pile on and with its arcraft carriers closed the gap in ariel recon.

Regard war with German, at least among my family and their friends the war against Germany was not a crusade, it was just business, nothing personal as the godfather might say. They had no special interest in what the Germans were doing to anybody because as my daddy said, “It was a European boys problem, let the European boys solve it.” Now the Japanese was a different story. The contempt and disgust with the Japanese was palatable and they really wanted to see Japanese boys get killed in huge numbers.

Oh and by the way, little known fact the Royal navy spent their time in the Asian theater patrolling the Indian Ocean for German subs while the battered US navy took on Imperial Japanese navy at Midway, which decided the war in the Pacific.

All that remained after June of 42 was deciding how high the butcher bill was going to go.

Now back on topic what about this freeze-dried cadaver worth 2 billion dollars

 

[qui_est_ce]

By comparison, the anti-semitism in other leaders around the world goes unnoticed and ignored: Saudi Arabia.

I think we all know why.

Where does Britain get its oil?

The US gets theirs from the US and Canada.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please read the forum rules.

Please charitably discuss the issues and not each other

Please do not make ad hominum comments.

 

[scipio337]

Not to mention the sacrifice of Soviet lives under Lenin and Stalin.

And Ukranians under Stalin, Czechoslovakians under Stalin, Georgians under Stalin, kulaks under Stalin…

 

[stevegravy]

And Ukranians under Stalin, Czechoslovakians under Stalin, Georgians under Stalin, kulaks under Stalin…

Yea I know lots of dead guys but what will the Venezualen government do with a freeze dried cadaver woth $2 billion. Maybe send it on a wold tour.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

The fact of the matter is, and the Church teaches, we cannot know the intent of anyone’s heart, during their life, or at the time of their death. There is only one Judge, and He can see beyond ‘face value.’

This is a common theological misconception by moral relativists and/or those Catholics who are inclined towards Liberation theology. It stems from a misconstrued interpretation of Scripture which is almost always taken out of context by removing the line “Judge not, that you not be judged.” from the entirety of the surrounding passage.

In truth, we are required to pass judgment on WRONGFUL ACTIONS regardless of the intentions of the offender. This is the basis of fraternal correction, though not necessarily limited to it as a private matter.

With that being said,

May the Lord have mercy on Hugo Chavez’s immortal soul, and on ALL our souls. And may Hugo’s Purgatory be fruitful in it’s painful Love and Redemption.

Grant us the Grace Oh Lord to enter into to our own Purgatory by offering up our suffering for Hugo’s soul, and for all the souls of the faithfully departed, through the Mercy of Your Cross. Amen.

May Your Face shine upon them all Oh Lord.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

I notice you failed to include the two American Airborne Divisions in your numbers.

And how many of those British **and Canadian **troops made it to the beaches riding US built landing craft, in US produced boots and uniforms armed with weapons built in the US?

The Soviets also marched to war in US made boots and uniforms and rode in Studebaker trucks.

I would also like to point out America’s contribution to the war effort even before war was declared on the U.S. by the Axis powers.

In March of '41 the United States enacted the Lend Lease Program which supplied the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, China, Free France, and other Allied nations with vital material between 1941 and 1945.

Oh and, in 1940 America’s full contribution to the Battle of Britain is finally coming to light:

Unites-States-helped-win-Battle-of-Britain-through-American-super-fuel.html"]Unites States ‘helped win Battle of Britain through American super-fuel’

"… British fighters were able to outmanoeuvre their German opponents because they were running on a special high-octane fuel created in the US.

He claims that the 100-octane fuel increased the Spitfire’s speed by 25mph at sea level and by 34mph at 10,000 feet.

This proved vital during dog fights over the Channel and the skies above England in 1940, Mr Palucka writes in the journal Invention And Technology."

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yea I know lots of dead guys but what will the Venezualen government do with a freeze dried cadaver woth $2 billion. Maybe send it on a wold tour.

What’s with the freeze dried?