I can't believe you all are not LDS(Mormon)!

[nebula]

That is a great first step!

You’ve been around these boards and whether you noticed or not, you have unified the Catholics and Protestants in their support of your decision. No matter our dicussions with obvious disagreements, we all support your decision to seek out the truth, as we all are connected in our belief in Jesus the only Son of the Father from which proceeds the Holy Spirit, one God.

May the peace of the Lord be with you and God Bless,
Prodigal Son1

Thanks very much for your encouragement!

 

[why_me]

She is not allowed to go to the morning ward. She is also not allowed to eat out on Sundays.

Beliefs and theology aside, none of this really works for me.

I think that she is allowed to go to the morning ward if she choses to do so, but her membership records would remain in the afternnoon ward. Also, since her records are in the afternoon ward, her ward responsiblities would be situated there. But there is nothing to prevent a member from going to a different ward regardless where the records are.

Buying something on the sabbath would be considered breaking the sabbath. But mormons do do it without any problems if they chose to do so.

 

[why_me]

Well, Paul did “boast” in his letters didn’t he?

I wanted to bring this up, but was not sure where to find it and so, I kept quiet. Exmormons expect JS to be perfect but as we all know no human can be perfect. Not even a prophet or any disciples of Christ now and in the past were perfect.

 

[why_me]

Do you have a prescribed time for God working in people’s lives?

On the Internet, it seems to happen very quickly especially on this section of the forum. ‘Brainwashed’ Mormons suddenly seeing the light in two weeks on the threads seems to be a contradiction of situations.

 

[zerinus]

zerinus,

I don’t think so, my disbelief is very deep at this point. I’ve come to the painful conclusion that the whole thing is a fraud.

You are entitled to that opinion of course; but let me assure you that I have never the slightest doubt in my mind that the whole thing is entirely true.

zerinus

 

[peary1]

I have a problem with things that are demonstratably false. “Reformed Egyptian” is just something I happen to focus on because of my profession.

I didn’t know there were Egyptian Calvinists. Hmm…learn somethin’ new everyday.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

I have been a Mormon all my life and to this day I can’t believe you all are other religions! If you read the Book of Mormon you would truly see it is true. I don’t know why you all choose to read anti materials and listen to EXMormons.

I feel bad for those who have lost the true gospel but there is always time to come back. I have been reading posts for about 6 months and have decided to join. I have always been interested in the whole Idea people are Catholic because they seemed a bit messed up. I mean you bow down to a Pope. So very sad.

I think you have more in common with the Catholics here than you think.

You both claim that yours is the only “true church” and that the other has lost the “true gospel”, but neither of you ever show any scripture to back your claims up.

 

[tundramom]

I wanted to bring this up, but was not sure where to find it and so, I kept quiet. Exmormons expect JS to be perfect but as we all know no human can be perfect. Not even a prophet or any disciples of Christ now and in the past were perfect.

We don’t expect JS to be perfect. Just truthful. Paul admitted his faults. JS lied about his.

in Christ
Steph

 

[estesbob]

I admit it. I started the threads to see what would happen.

Sock puppets are against forum rules. At any rate being you now have zilch credibility I wont be responding to anything you post from now on.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I think you have more in common with the Catholics here than you think.

You both claim that yours is the only “true church” and that the other has lost the “true gospel”, but neither of you ever show any scripture to back your claims up.

Catholics believe the Church built upon Peter is the Catholic Church. See the scriptures below.

Please explain how YOU have the authority to bind and loose in heaven?

Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Catholics believe this to be the Church Christ started. Evidently our disagreement comes from interpretation. Please show me where scriptures state the sole authority is the Bible?

The Church and the faith existed before the Bible.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[Pastor_Jim]

Catholics believe the Church built upon Peter is the Catholic Church. See the scriptures below.

Please explain how YOU have the authority to bind and loose in heaven?

Please explain how that has anything to do with what I said.

Catholics believe this to be the Church Christ started. Evidently our disagreement comes from interpretation. Please show me where scriptures state the sole authority is the Bible?

Please show me where I ever said that our sole authority is the Bible.

The Church and the faith existed before the Bible.

Actually, 2/3 of the scriptures that make up the Bible and which Christianity were founded upon existed before the Bible and before Christianity, but that’s irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

[1holycatholic]

The Nephite people spoke a dialect of Hebrew.

The Nephite people are fictional.

 

[nebula]

You are entitled to that opinion of course; but let me assure you that I have never the slightest doubt in my mind that the whole thing is entirely true.

zerinus

Hmm, then we are at an impasse, since I’m rather certain that the whole thing is a fraud. What to do?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Hmm, then we are at an impasse, since I’m rather certain that the whole thing is a fraud. What to do?

Luckily this is a free country, so you are free to believe it is a fraud while others are free to believe that it is entirely true.

 

[nebula]

Luckily this is a free country, so you are free to believe it is a fraud while others are free to believe that it is entirely true.

Melanie,

If it comes to it, that’s always the option, but in the meantime, from an epistemological angle, my question to zerinus is: how do we determine who is right and who is wrong?

 

[why_me]

We don’t expect JS to be perfect. Just truthful. Paul admitted his faults. JS lied about his.

in Christ
Steph

Well, that is one take on it. We know very little of Paul and what we do know is in the new testament. But Paul was also a complex man and I am sure that he also ruffled some feathers during his time as apostle. We just don’t have enough information about him. But he was certainly human.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Please explain how that has anything to do with what I said.

You said we believe in our Church but can’t back it up with scriptures. So I supplied scriptures where the Church authority was given to Peter. I ask again, how do you apply binding and loosing on earth to be bound and loosed in heaven? That authority is clearly given to Church and not individuals, in my opinion.

Please show me where I ever said that our sole authority is the Bible.

It was an assumption on my part being you wanted Church authority according to scriptures. Please tell me the scriptures given to apply to individuals authority?

Actually, 2/3 of the scriptures that make up the Bible and which Christianity were founded upon existed before the Bible and before Christianity, but that’s irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Scriptures, of the New Testament giving authority to the Church, were written 10 to 15 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. Those letters and epistles were not canonized into one book until near the 4th century. Again, the Church and the faith existed prior to the Bible. The Bible was given to us through the Church. It becomes revelant when someone claims we need to produce scriptures giving authority to the Church, again in my opinion.

Most Protestants and Catholics have been showing support to nebula for leaving the LDS Church. Your statements were negative in nature and I’d like to ask that you show scriptures that say we should show a negative attitude to someone who seeks God through Christ our Lord or was this said in some fashion of personal pride?

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[MelanieAnne]

Melanie,

If it comes to it, that’s always the option, but in the meantime, from an epistemological angle, my question to zerinus is: how do we determine who is right and who is wrong?

There can never be an agreement on right and wrong on this issue so I submit it is unproductive to attempt to make any such determination. You may always believe Mormonism is a fraud. Zerinus may always believe Mormonism is 100% true. Hence you may always believe Zerinus is wrong and you are right, and he may believe the you are wrong and he is right. What is the point of attempting to make such a determination if there cannot ever be consensus on the answer?

 

[nebula]

There can never be an agreement on right and wrong on this issue so I submit it is unproductive to attempt to make any such determination. You may always believe Mormonism is a fraud. Zerinus may always believe Mormonism is 100% true. Hence you may always believe Zerinus is wrong and you are right, and he may believe the you are wrong and he is right. What is the point of attempting to make such a determination if there cannot ever be consensus on the answer?

Melanie,

I completely disagree, you are arguing that the matter is nothing but one of subjective opinion. It isn’t. Mormonism as a religion makes loads of specific physical claims and unique metaphysical claims that can and should be examined for hteir reasonableness. Now maybe I will never change zerinus’ mind, that is most likely the case, but I as I know on a peresonal level you never know how these discussions affect a person.

I have to wonder, if debate is so utterly useless, why are you wasting your time?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Melanie,

I completely disagree, you are arguing that the matter is nothing but one of subjective opinion. It isn’t. Mormonism as a religion makes loads of specific physical claims and unique metaphysical claims that can and should be examined for hteir reasonableness. Now maybe I will never change zerinus’ mind, that is most likely the case, but I as I know on a peresonal level you never know how these discussions affect a person.

I have to wonder, if debate is so utterly useless, why are you wasting your time?

I’m merely suggesting that you will never get Zerinus and those of his ilk to sign on to any sort of agreement. Most Mormons, including Zerinus, take all these stories on faith and appear to have no concern whatsoever that not only is there no proof of these specific claims, but there is a lot of proof that these specific claims are false.

I personally believe the entire Mormon business is a total fraud, that Joseph Smith was a con man and why he decided to go into the religion business is very questionable. I also I find fault with present-day Mormon missionaries that conceal the really weird and preposterous aspects of Mormonism from prospective converts.

While I agree with you that Mormon claims should be examined for their reasonableness, and upon the determination that the claims are false, the faith should be abandoned, you are not likely to get the same sort of agreement from any Mormon. It’s not about reasonableness or evidence or any of that for a Mormon, it’s about faith and a “burning in the breast” and the “still small voice” of the Holy Spirit whispering to them that it is all true.