Idolatry and hypocrisy

[VanitasVanitatum]

The synod was a listening event. Listening and understanding what we share in common of the divine life.

Listening isn’t being a doormat to an obviously bad idea. I don’t see how Panchamama was neccessary when there is much more to the Amazonians then the pagan elements.

 

[Emeraldlady]

For those who read the story of Sister Dorothy Mae, the person who killed her mercilessly is serving 27 years prison.
There are persons who forge titles of ownership of land there , over 1000 persons have been killed just for trying to defend themselves from the greed and the corruption abundant in this area.
It is serious, and grave and the Church is there present , compassionate and struggling to evangelize despite all this.

It is a scenario that has happened so often in history. That sense of entitlement and supremacy over the earth. The place of the Catholic Church in re-orienting ideologies is vital.

 

[graciew]

I still dispute “Pachamama”for the record.
I believe pachamama was a word because it is a Quechuan word that found its way somehow to relate to this appreciation and value of the earth and stuck to this situation in lack of a better word to describe a concept.
But not as a deity.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Thanking God for these things are the same thing. I’m not sure why one would go in an over about way to respect the Earth if a reasonable effort is used to not needlessly destroy it.

Because today people, even Catholics, no longer identify as primarily a member of the human race… sojourners on this planet who can really be thankful for the ecology. We need help to regain a sense of the supernatural and the communion between all people. What we do today will impact on our descendents. We need to be brought into the reality of that. If you did something today that was going to harm your child tomorrow, that would be a very sobering thought and make a real impact on what you do now today. We’ve lost that sense that was once so profoundly manifest in the Communion of Saints.

 

[Ammi]

You still dont personify and venerate a concept. Let alone one with a history of pagan goddess.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

Ammi:

No one is arguing to not be thankful for the Earth. As Christian’s, we thank God for the Earth. We dont thank the Earth for the Earth.

And that even though we are high and mighty Catholics, we are failing to be thankful and respectful of the earth and our habitat… why is it not right for the Church to urgently remind us of what real respect for the earth looks like? Even through the example of respect for the earth still shown in other faiths?

Respect for the Earth does not look like a ceremony honoring Pachamama.

That’s all im saying.

What does it look like?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Because today people, even Catholics, no longer identify as primarily a member of the human race… sojourners on this planet who can really be thankful for the ecology. We need help to regain a sense of he supernatural and the communion between all people.

The only way to acheive communion is by forming relationships and that’s not really a priority for most, but trying to make some ecology theology is just not going to do any good.

I still dispute “Pachamama”for the record.
I believe pachamama was a word because it is a Quechuan word that found its way somehow to relate to this appreciation and value of the earth and stuck to this situation in lack of a better word to describe a concept.
But not as a deity.

Perhaps, but Church officials didn’t have to bow, and a museum would have made much more sense than a church. Plus the lack of clarification, except some vague remarks, have left me with the impression that it was poorly handled.

 

[Ammi]

Brasil is one of the most Catholic countries in the world. Yet there is very high crime, corruption, and pollution.

I spent some time there. One thing I noticed was the awful emissions from vehicles. Make regulations.

Another thing was parks and recreation was poor.

It’s about awareness. Dont pollute, recycle, reduce hazardous waste, etc.

Some coastal cities like Salvador have disgusting water from waste.

 

[graciew]

These are two different things which I have explained but I do not mind repeating.
As a deity it is Prehispanic. As time passed and in certain areas let us say to the west south west, it is still dealt with in a milder way and also mixed.
At the same time , it became a word in the popular culture to describe this love or appreciation to the earth and thus derived into whatever but not the deity as it was.
That is why Inuse capital letters when referring to the deity “ Pachamama” , prehispanic, and pachamama to the word that has become whatever but a deity ( Prehispanics would probably cringe…)
Anyway, true is that sometimes it is said that this bond with the earth as mother/ mother earth, facilitated evangelization.This we say…not that you will find it written authoritatively,I am just sharing .
South America is very Marian.
Marian as any of you may be Marian. Catholic.

 

[Ammi]

Dont be fooled by appearances of Marian devotions. It doesnt mean they are actually doing things inspired by Mary.

They will tout a statue of Mary, while boldly receiving sterilization procedures.

 

[graciew]

Well , looking back and seeing what it has provoked,I imagine nobody would do it on purpose again. Not because it was “ bad” necessarily but sometimes we do not realize what we may provoke. We are human.
That is one side of the coin.
Now the other side takes some trust. Trust that though mistakes are possible of course, this Pope is not going to lead us astray. How do I know? Well, he was our bishop and Archbishop for years and years. And unless something has affected his brain, which I doubt,and find no evidence of, he is still the same person we all knew. May not be perfect, but he was chosen by our College of Cardinals.
So… some peace may find its way hopefully.

 

[Crusader13]

I’ve always felt the church’s primary mission is the salvation of souls, not the preservation of forests and animals. Being good stewards of our planet is something that I think most Catholics acknowledge, but to raise environmental issues to a level that supersedes the other functions of the Church is something I don’t agree with.

The perceived greed of western civilization as it pertains to one’s view of capitalism and the environment is not the crucial issue that others make it out to be.

The Church should address all forms of idolatry the same without giving special focus to the monetary aspects of the west at the expense of the use of pachamama statues as a sign of cultural acceptance.

I need our clergy to be the shepherds they are called to be, not politicians seeking to sway me to their causes of social justice.

 

[po18guy]

Was going to post, but I wondered what to say. Seems our Lord spoke about greed - it’s nothing new.

Concupiscence…

is what causes it and that can only be fought on an individual level.

Passing laws is not the solution. Changing heart is.

 

[Ammi]

What does Concupiscence have to do with this topic?

 

[Taras_Bulba]

It’s essentially an apologia for the overstep of not-cha-mama worship on display at the recent Amazon synod in the form of a giant ‘tu quoque’ about the idols of money. As if criticizing the modern cult of Moloch precludes criticism of the cult of usury.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

And that even though we are high and mighty Catholics,

So, we should not consider ourselves or anyone a high and mighty Catholic, nor should we act or think that way of our faith. We are followers of Christ thanks to His grace, it is nothing we do of ourselves. Being Catholic is something we should be grateful to God for since it is the path to salvation, which would be why we want others to come to that path of salvation also.

we are failing to be thankful and respectful of the earth and our habitat

I do not believe lack of gratitude and respect is a Catholic issue but a human issue. We all tend to take for granted our gifts from God.

why is it not right for the Church to urgently remind us of what real respect for the earth looks like?

And that is the key, “real respect”. We should be respectful and grateful and care for all the gifts we receive from God. We just need to not elevate those gifts to the level of honor and respect that is only given to God. Nor should we ever elevate those gifts to a level above human beings.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I have heard that argument to denounce the intercession of the Saints many times… but always from Protestants. As Catholics we acknowledge Christ in the patronage of the Saints.

In all charity, @Emeraldlady, the earth is not a saint, nor was the statue of the little pregnant woman a saint. Saints are in heaven with the Lord.

The earth and nature are not dead. Beasts aren’t dead.

Things things have life because God gives them life but they were not created in the same way God created man. None of these things were created in the image and likeness of God nor do they have souls that will last into eternity.

Mary is referenced as the ‘moon’ who imbued with the light of the ‘sun’, has the power to grant us the comfort of God through her intercessions.

Mary is not “the moon”. It is an analogy used to help people understand how she reflects the light of God, just as the moon gives us light by reflecting the light of the sun. Jesus is not the sun and Mary is not the moon.

We are not in any way shape or form separated from the natural world as if we are the holy ones and everything else is evil.

While true the earth is not evil and we know that because God said it was good in Genesis but we are seperate and different from the earth, in that we were created in the image and likeness of God. We are not the holy ones now while pilgrims on earth but we are working to become holy ones. Through the grace of God we are working out our salvation, to become saints. The moon, the stars, the earth do not work to become holy. They do not have souls as we do. They do not have free will as we do. They will not become saints.

 

[ez3714]

Time to recognise that western greed is one of the causes of global hunger

So…if people are starving in China, the east is guilty of patent infringement?

 

[Beryllos]

@Emeraldlady, you have some good points. All the hand-wringing over statues would be easier to bear if they had something positive to say about another aspect of the Amazon Synod. Like “I think they went too far with the statues, but I really agree about …”

By the way, we are name-twins. Beryllos (βήρυλλος) is the Greek name for the stone also known as Emerald. Howdy, sister!

 

[Ammi]

Well maybe if Rome wants our hearts (open to the synod), they will defend against false, pagan practices.