If There Is No Heaven Will You Still Love God?

[nancy_dalrymple]

Heaven is both a spiritual state of experiencing the beatific vision as well as a superphysical location (probably not in our universe). Otherwise where would our ressurected, superphysical bodies go after the final ressurection of the dead?

Hi,I’m not to good at this but isn’t there 2 resurections? the first and the last?When does the last one happen? After the thousand year’s? I beleive heaven is beautiful and the streets are paved with goldetc. Nancy:thumbsup: God Bless

 

[Matariel]

Hi,I’m not to good at this but isn’t there 2 resurections? the first and the last?When does the last one happen? After the thousand year’s? I beleive heaven is beautiful and the streets are paved with goldetc. Nancy:thumbsup: God Bless

Two resurrections? No, unless you are counting Jesus’ Resurrection?

There is only Jesus’ Ressurection and the future resurrection of the dead in the future.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Heaven is both a spiritual state of experiencing the beatific vision as well as a superphysical location (probably not in our universe). Otherwise where would our ressurected, superphysical bodies go after the final ressurection of the dead?

I never said that we did not experience heaven in a place. I was arguing that the place itself is not the cause of heaven. Heaven is a spiritual experience; and the nature of heaven itself flows from God.

My priest once said in mass that people often think of heaven as a place. No, said the priest. Heaven is going back into God. By that he meant, heaven is the eternal relationship that humanity will eventually share with God. Heaven is not a place.

 

[jkiernan56]

Hi,I’m not to good at this but isn’t there 2 resurections? the first and the last?When does the last one happen? After the thousand year’s? I beleive heaven is beautiful and the streets are paved with goldetc. Nancy:thumbsup: God Bless

My understanding is that there is only 1 Resurrection and 2 Judgements: an Individual one for each of us and a Universal one. The Individual Judgement having to do with each of us after death and the Universal one where all of humanity is assembled before the Holiness of God where His Jusice is clearly seen by all.

 

[jkiernan56]

I never said that we did not experience heaven in a place. I was arguing that the place itself is not the cause of heaven. Heaven is a spiritual experience; and the nature of heaven itself flows from God.

My priest once said in mass that people often think of heaven as a place. No, said the priest. Heaven is going back into God. By that he meant, heaven is the eternal relationship that humanity will eventually share with God. Heaven is not a place.

MindOverMatter -

You start off saying that “I never said we did not experience heaven in a place.” Then you end with saying “Heaven is not a place.” Do you see the contradiction in terms?

If I were you, I would put both of your thoughts together and say - Our experience of happiness in Heaven is not JUST a place, but an experience of happiness (spiritual state of being in the Beatific Vision) in a Place called Heaven where we will have resurrected bodies.

When you say that “Heaven is not a place” - you are only expressing a Half Truth about Heaven. Heaven is both a spiritual state of being of complete happiness that will be experienced with resurrected bodies (in addition to spirit) in a PLACE with God and one another. Heaven is both physical and spiritual just as each of us are a union of body and soul.

 

[mmmcounts]

If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” Realistically, if this were all there is, I would enjoy it in a manner similar to this. If there is no resurrected body in the future, why does it matter what I do with it now?

We do not just miss out on eternal life in this scenario; it also negates the process of “storing up treasure in heaven.” In addition to eternal life in God’s presence, there’s also the matter of judgment of works that results in rewards not having to do with gaining or losing salvation. While we are not supposed to do works out of selfish motivation, treasure in heaven is still supposed to be something that matters more to us than treasure on earth. So if there were no such thing as treasure in heaven, I would not care about it much at all. I would focus entirely on earthly treasure.

As a more direct response to the question, I would probably still love God during life, but it would be different. The actions demonstrating that love would be in the context of a temporal existence, and that does change the quality and substance of a person’s actions. The change in this situation actually causes God’s actions to be different, too. As it is now, God is the sort of creator that desires eternal and complete intimacy with his creation. If he were the sort of creator that only desired temporal and indirect intimacy with his creation, I suspect that would mean God feels differently about this kind of creation than about the first one. Consider the following: Does God love us more than animals, who are in a similar situation to the one you hypothesized (no heaven, no eternal life, no intimate knowledge of God)? I think Jesus said he does.

 

[rinnie]

Peace of Christ to everyone who visits this thread!

A priest once gave this one liner homily (can’t remember now what the readings were) for the faithful to ponder upon.

I have asked the same question of a few friends and got some good and some quite angry reactions. One said the question was stupid.

The question of course is purely hypothetical and every Christian knows there is a heaven.

But hypothetically, if there is no heaven, if this life here on earth is the only life that God is giving us, would you still love God and follow His commands?

Looking forward to some interesting responses.

Sure because that would mean that this world could be heaven. And that would mean God would be here for those who chose him. But I will say one thing, even if there was not a heaven, and this world was it. God sure made it wonderful just knowing he existed anyway. Because as hard and horrible as this world can be, there is still a certain peace you can get from God that no man can take away. ITs a state of mind if you let it be.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

just another thought on my heaven is God, God is heaven idea. If heaven is perfect which it must be if we will be perfectly happy there for all eternity then it occured to me that the most perfect thing is God. So it’s most likely this perfect place is God. The trinity is perfect and perfection is simple. So why don’t I understand something that is perfectly simple

 

[jkiernan56]

just another thought on my heaven is God, God is heaven idea. If heaven is perfect which it must be if we will be perfectly happy there for all eternity then it occured to me that the most perfect thing is God. So it’s most likely this perfect place is God. The trinity is perfect and perfection is simple. So why don’t I understand something that is perfectly simple

Have you read any on the simplicity of God by St. Thomas Aquinas? I think you’ll get an idea of an answer to your question.

 

[PJM]

To All Posters:

Please remember that there is big IF in this question.

The question is IF there is neither heaven nor hell, IF this is the only life you will ever know, will you still love God?

So please think about that IF.

Remember, hypothetical.

Thanks!

If we still had Jesus and Mary and their example of selfless LOVE… perhaps?

Without Jesus and Mary it would be quite difficult.

However when you take “hell” out of the big picture, that means that (even more than now… thought!) that their would be no up-side or down side for doing only what we what and when and how we want. THAT’s SPOOKY!

Or would there be:thumbsup:

 

[MindOverMatter]

MindOverMatter -

You start off saying that “I never said we did not experience heaven in a place.” Then you end with saying “Heaven is not a place.” Do you see the contradiction in terms?

I’m, sorry to have to be the one to break the bad news to you, but the contradiction unfortunately stems from your misunderstanding; not my argument. I said, more or less, that there is necessarily a “place” in which we will experience heaven= (God), due to the circumstance of being physical beings. That in no way entails that the place is heaven just because people experience heaven there. There experience is not due to the place; but rather it is due to the experience of God. Otherwise it would not be a place worth going to. It is merely a place in which people experience the beatific vision of God. Heaven is the fulfillment of man. A relationship with God is the end for which man was created; therefore God alone is Heaven.

Nice try.

The place is simply a matter of convenience for the 3 dimensional human.

God is the root of true eternal happiness. God is heaven. Out side of God there is no heaven.

 

[ready]

Our heavenly Father is Heaven itself as Pope Benedict has said. Also the Church teaches that Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are states of being.

 

[Matariel]

It really depends on your definition of “Heaven”. If you mean an experience of God, then the statement “God is Heaven” is true. If you are referring to where the superphysical bodies of the ressurected go after the resserection, then that place is Heaven. But God is not a place.

Anyway…

"God is in His Heaven; All is right in the world!"

A little line from Browning.

(It’s also NERV’s motto on Neon Genesis Evangelion.)

 

[jkiernan56]

I’m, sorry to have to be the one to break the bad news to you, but the contradiction unfortunately stems from your misunderstanding; not my argument. I said, more or less, that there is necessarily a “place” in which we will experience heaven= (God), due to the circumstance of being physical beings. That in no way entails that the place is heaven just because people experience heaven there. There experience is not due to the place; but rather it is due to the experience of God. Otherwise it would not be a place worth going to. It is merely a place in which people experience the beatific vision of God. Heaven is the fulfillment of man. A relationship with God is the end for which man was created; therefore God alone is Heaven.

Nice try.

The place is simply a matter of convenience for the 3 dimensional human.

God is the root of true eternal happiness. God is heaven. Out side of God there is no heaven.

No bad news here … LOL
Heaven is not just a state of being although it includes that as well. It also is a PLACE … and that place IS NOT just a state of being

 

[jkiernan56]

Our heavenly Father is Heaven itself as Pope Benedict has said. Also the Church teaches that Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are states of being.

Heaven is not just a state of being although it includes that as well. It also is a PLACE … and that place IS NOT just a state of being. There is a reason there is going to be a RESURRECTION!!! We are not just spiritual beings… We are body and soul. One day our BODIES will also be Resurrected and joined to our SOULS. Jesus and Mary already have Resurrected Bodies joined to their souls. All the other Saints await theirs

 

[jkiernan56]

It really depends on your definition of “Heaven”. If you mean an experience of God, then the statement “God is Heaven” is true. If you are referring to where the superphysical bodies of the ressurected go after the resserection, then that place is Heaven. But God is not a place.

Anyway…

"God is in His Heaven; All is right in the world!"

A little line from Browning.

(It’s also NERV’s motto on Neon Genesis Evangelion.)

Heaven includes that direct vision of God and is a PLACE that God created. It is not just spiritual

 

[MindOverMatter]

Heaven includes that direct vision of God and is a PLACE that God created. It is not just spiritual

Are you saying that the true eternal root of human happiness is partly physical; a created thing?

 

[jkiernan56]

Are you saying that the true eternal root of human happiness is partly physical; a created thing?

Absolutely NOT partly - COMPLETE BODY and SOUL in the Beatific Vision … in a PLACE which is not just spiritual in nature.

When I had a very profound spiritual experience of God’s love for me, I already that it was a foretaste of Heaven - a knowledge and experience of absolute total perfect LOVE for me personally. IT was an experience of Body and Soul.

 

[Matariel]

Heaven includes that direct vision of God and is a PLACE that God created. It is not just spiritual

Precisely.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Hi ben,

Yes sweetheart, I would still Love God with my entire being!

It’s these others that I am having problems with right now! ANSWER the question!


God Bless**