If There Is No Heaven Will You Still Love God?

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AMEN!!!

I agree wholeheartedly and I have a similar experience and view.šŸ™‚

Wherever He sees fit for me to spend eternity is what Iā€™ll deserve, so there canā€™t be any bad in that.

ā€¦ but donā€™t give up on heaven just yet. You are closer to it than you may realize.

God Bless,
Snert
No, I never give up on Heaven. I just realize human nature and I know although God promises salvation, I must keep my end of the covenant. I am always aware if Jesus Himself can be confronted by satan and temptation, no mere human can claim otherwise. And we are not God to always resist as He did although we must pray for the grace to strengthen us against temptation. I love God with the fear of hurting someone I love and avoiding doing what may hurt Him, not fear generated from what He may decide, as He is a just and Loving God and Father.
 
I think I can answer now :extrahappy: at least for myself. Thanks for benedictus2 who helps me to realize it.
I Love God because God loves me first, He gives His great love until make me powerless not to love Him back. So yes, I will still love God although thereā€™s no heaven.
First, I thought that I might love God because of thinking about heaven and try not to have sin because of fear of hell.But after I thought and meditated more deeply, suddenly, something just crossed my mind. No, I try to avoid having sin not because of Iā€™m afraid of hell but I try not to disappoint God because I love Him very much.And itā€™s because He loves me unconditionally and trully and never force me to love Him back. Only HIS GREAT LOVE make me powerless not to love Him back. At least that what I think and feel. I donā€™t expect that everyone will agree with me.
 
Good point. Heaven is the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God is within usā€“for where Christ is, there is his kingdom. So, yeah, I guess, in a feat of semantic gymnastics, heaven is already here among us, in the Bride of Christ.
 
In response to objections to my claim heaven is God, God is heaven i offer the following. Also you cannot take everything in Genesis literally, particularly on a difficult theological matter like this when it says God created the heaven and the earth. Would it not be fair to presume that if heaven were Gods abode it had no beginning? The heaven spoken of in genesis is likely the firmament too, and not the abode of the blessed. I think heaven is God. That is the conclusion I draw from newadvent.org/fathers/1801123.htm

St Augustines
Exposition on Psalm 123
  1. If, my brethren, we understand by heaven the firmament which we see with our bodily eyes, we shall indeed so err, as to imagine that we cannot ascend thither without ladders, or some scaling machines: but if we ascend spiritually, we ought to understand heaven spiritually: if the ascent be in affection, heaven is in righteousness. What is then the heaven of God? All holy souls, all righteous souls. For the Apostles also, although they were on earth in the flesh, were heaven; for the Lord, enthroned in them, traversed the whole world. He then dwells in heaven. How?..How long are they the temple according to faith? As long as Christ dwells in them through faith; as the Apostle says, That Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. But they are already heaven in whom God already dwells visibly, who see Him face to face; all the holy Apostles, all the holy Virtues, Powers, Thrones, Lordships, that heavenly Jerusalem, wanderers from whence we groan, and for which we pray with longing; and there God dwells. Thither has the Psalmist lifted up his faith, thither he rises in affection, with longing hopes: and this very longing causes the soul to purge off the filth of sins, and to be cleansed from every stain, that itself also may become heaven; because it has lifted up its eyes unto Him who dwells in heaven. For if we have determined that that heaven which we see with our bodily eyes is the dwelling of God, the dwelling of God will pass away; for heaven and earth will pass away. Matthew 24:35 Then, before God created heaven and earth, where did He dwell? But some one says: and before God made the Saints, where did He dwell? God dwelt in Himself, he dwelt with Himself, and God is with Himself. And when He deigns to dwell in the Saints, the Saints are not the house of God in such wise, as that God should fall when it is withdrawn. For we dwell in a house in one way, in another way God dwells in the Saints. Thou dwellest in a house: if it be withdrawn, you fall, but God so dwells in the Saints, that if He should Himself depart, they fallā€¦
What are your conclusions?šŸ¤·
 
I donā€™t know if this will help or hinder but here goes:

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

Knowing God and His Son is to know their love -and to love them. Whatever heaven is, what makes it heavenly is the presence of God. We can receive tastes of that presence, whether powerful tastes or not so powerful, here on earth but only continuously and permanently in the next life, of course.
 
I havenā€™t read all 2,000 posts so forgive me if this has been said. I was at mass tonight at the maronite cathedral ( Lebanese ) and I followed the english translation on the projector screen and i have been thinking about it. No one knew there was eternal life with God until God revealed it to Moses. Therefore in genesis the reference to heaven must surely be to th efirmament we look up and see in the sky. So if the question is in relation to the heaven as the firmament the answer from me is - yes. But Iā€™m sure it isnā€™t. just an observation.
From catholic encyclopedia
Firmament

tt=77

(Septuagint stereoma; Vulgate, firmamentum). The notion that the sky was a vast solid dome seems to have been common among the ancient peoples whose ideas of cosmology have come down to us. Thus the Egyptians conceived the heavens to be an arched iron ceiling from which the stars were suspended by means of cables (Chabas, LƆAntiquiteƆ historique, Paris, 1873, pp. 64-67). Likewise to the mind of the Babylonians the sky was an immense dome, forged out of the hardest metal by the hand of Merodach (Marduk) and resting on a wall surrounding the earth (Jensen, Die Kosmologie der Babylonier, Strasburg, 1890, pp. 253, 260). According to the notion prevalent among the Greeks and Romans, the sky was a great vault of crystal to which the fixed stars were attached, though by some it was held to be of iron or brass. That the Hebrews entertained similar ideas appears from numerous biblical passages. In the first account of the creation (Genesis 1) we read that God created a firmament to divide the upper or celestial from the lower or terrestrial waters. The Hebrew means something beaten or hammered out, and thus extended; the Vulgate rendering, Ć“firmamentumƶ corresponds more closely with the Greek stereoma (Septuagint, Aquila, and Symmachus), Ć“something made firm or solidƶ. The notion of the solidity of the firmament is moreover expressed in such passages as Job 37:18, where reference is made incidentally to the heavens, Ć“which are most strong, as if they were of molten brassƶ. The same is implied in the purpose attributed to God in creating the firmament, viz. to serve as a wall of separation between the upper and lower of water, it being conceived as supporting a vast celestial reservoir; and also in the account of the deluge (Genesis 7), where we read that the Ć“flood gates of heaven were openedƶ, and shut upƶ (viii, 2). (Cf. also IV 28 sqq.) Other passages e.g. Isaiah 42:5, emphasize rather the idea of something extended: Ć“Thus saith the Lord God that created the heavens and stretched them outƶ (Cf. Isaiah 44:24, and 40:22). In conformity with these ideas, the writer of Genesis 1:14-20 represents God as setting the stars in the firmament of heaven, and the fowls are located beneath it, i.e. in the air as distinct from the firmament. On this point as on many others, the Bible simply reflects the current cosmological ideas and language of the time.
 
From the catholic encyclopedia- I hold my opinion:cool:
The location of Heaven

Where is heaven, the dwelling of God and the blessed?
Some are of opinion that heaven is everywhere, as God is everywhere. According to this view the blessed can move about freely in every part of the universe, and still remain with God and see everywhere. Everywhere, too, they remain with Christ (in His sacred Humanity) and with the saints and the angels. For, according to the advocates of this opinion, the spatial distances of this world must no longer impede the mutual intercourse of blessed. In general, however, theologians deem more appropriate that there should be a special and glorious abode, in which the blessed have their peculiar home and where they usually abide, even though they be free to go about in this world. For the surroundings in the midst of which the blessed have their dwelling must be in accordance with their happy state; and the internal union of charity which joins them in affection must find its outward expression in community of habitation. At the end of the world, the earth together with the celestial bodies will be gloriously transformed into a part of the dwelling-place of the blessed (Revelation 21). Hence there seems to be no sufficient reason for attributing a metaphorical sense to those numerous utterances of the Bible which suggest a definite dwelling-place of the blessed. Theologians, therefore, generally hold that the heaven of the blessed is a special place with definite limits. Naturally, this place is held to exist, not within the earth, but, in accordance with the expressions of Scripture, without and beyond its limits. All further details regarding its locality are quite uncertain. The Church has decided nothing on this subject.
 
Some good points from the catechism shed some light on what heaven is-
**326 **The Scriptural expression ā€œheaven and earthā€ means all that exists, creation in its entirety. It also indicates the bond, deep within creation, that both unites heaven and earth and distinguishes the one from the other: ā€œthe earthā€ is the world of men, while ā€œheavenā€ or ā€œthe heavensā€ can designate both the firmament and Godā€™s own ā€œplaceā€ - ā€œour Father in heavenā€ and consequently the ā€œheavenā€ too which is eschatological glory. Finally, ā€œheavenā€ refers to the saints and the ā€œplaceā€ of the spiritual creatures, the angels, who surround God.
**2802 **ā€œWho art in heavenā€ does not refer to a place but to Godā€™s majesty and his presence in the hearts of the just. Heaven, the Fatherā€™s house, is the true homeland toward which we are heading and to which, already, we belong.
**1026 **By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has ā€œopenedā€ heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ.

Itā€™s hard to get a straight answer that God is heaven, heaven is God or not. But Iā€™m sticking to it. Can anyone conclusively prove it wrong? Provide sources if so please.
 
šŸ™‚ You know I thought about it a little more and figured out this. When you are pregnant you never see the child and even before you feel it kicking you have this inside love and nurtureing feeling and a closeness to that little life. Even if it doenā€™t make it you have that hope.I guess what iā€™m trying to say loosing that love that God instills in us would be worst then knowing their was no heaven. Weā€™d still love him and be greatfull for all he has given expecially love. Love is the key!šŸ˜‰ NancyGod Bless
 
I was trying to think about my q is God heaven and vice versa. It can only be that heaven is a thing, place or state from what Iā€™v e learnt. It could be all of them. I really donā€™t know for sure. It could be something alltogether different to anything I think. Why would God need to create a place for himself to dwell and the angels and saints? But God is creative? Itā€™s hard to know without solid guidance and I canā€™t find it. Iā€™m still sticking to my idea but I must allow for the possibility it could be far more complex or different to what I think. Complex to me that is. It would be simple if it were perfect.

If anyone can shed some light do so.
 
In response to objections to my claim heaven is God, God is heaven i offer the following. Also you cannot take everything in Genesis literally, particularly on a difficult theological matter like this when it says God created the heaven and the earth. Would it not be fair to presume that if heaven were Gods abode it had no beginning?
That is true. But that still does not make God is Heaven true, because oneā€™s abode is not oneā€™s self. Above and self are two different things. God is not His Above.
The heaven spoken of in genesis is likely the firmament too, and not the abode of the blessed. I think heaven is God.
That is the conclusion I draw from newadvent.org/fathers/1801123.htm
That heaven is not the firmament that the OT writer conceives of does not make any difference. God is still not Heaven. Being with God is heaven but being with God is not God. It is very important to make this distinction.
Heaven may be the place where God is or the state of being with God but heaven and God are still two different ā€œthingsā€. Heaven is Godā€™s Kingdom if we take the language of the NT but Godā€™s Kingdom is not God. His Being however is what makes it His Kingdom.
 
I was trying to think about my q is God heaven and vice versa. It can only be that heaven is a thing, place or state from what Iā€™v e learnt. It could be all of them. I really donā€™t know for sure. It could be something alltogether different to anything I think. Why would God need to create a place for himself to dwell and the angels and saints? But God is creative? Itā€™s hard to know without solid guidance and I canā€™t find it. Iā€™m still sticking to my idea but I must allow for the possibility it could be far more complex or different to what I think. Complex to me that is. It would be simple if it were perfect.

If anyone can shed some light do so.
Hey fellow Aussie, I have been mulling over your post and trying to sort of visualize your answer and I can now see where you are coming from.

I was at prayer one time and I had a ā€œvisionā€ (for want of a better word) that the God was this vast sea and I am immersed in Him like a sponge with His being flowing into my being or something like that.

I still maintain that God is not heaven (or at least I donā€™t think so) but this image I had at prayer sort of gave me an idea of what you might be getting at.

I had another similar thought just this afternoon with Him being the all consuming fire that the Bible speaks of.
It is one of the most striking and profound images that I have ever had about my (our) relationship with God.
 
šŸ™‚ You know I thought about it a little more and figured out this. When you are pregnant you never see the child and even before you feel it kicking you have this inside love and nurtureing feeling and a closeness to that little life. Even if it doenā€™t make it you have that hope.I guess what iā€™m trying to say loosing that love that God instills in us would be worst then knowing their was no heaven. Weā€™d still love him and be greatfull for all he has given expecially love. Love is the key!šŸ˜‰ NancyGod Bless
**What a wonderful post! Amen to all that!šŸ‘ **
 
Iā€™ll respond to the OP before reading.

Iā€™m an agnostic, but wanted to share my thoughts anyway.

If there is a God, and there is no afterlife and explanation given to us for life, I would hate God with a passion.

An uncaring universe that simply exists and ends up with us, is a bit of a cruel joke, but one we can deal with as I have my entire life.

A god, that would create a self-aware creature such as us, only to allow all this pain and suffering for absolutely no purposeā€¦I would despise.

Would I still behave as decently as possible? Of courseā€¦I know pain, I donā€™t want to cause that to another if I can avoid it. But I would have no respect for a creature that created life, for absolutely no purpose and also allowed that life to suffer for no purpose.

I thinkā€¦if there ā€œISā€ a God, there has to be something beyond death. Otherwise, there isnā€™t a God.

Cheers
Dame
 
My take on that would be if you actually believe that they found Jesus body, then you donā€™t believe in Jesus at all because it would mean that He lied about His resurrection.
Jesus never claimed he was ressurected. The disciples of his disciple wrote about a ressurection about 70 years after his death. Jesus would not be the one who was lying.

Just wanted to point that out šŸ™‚
 
Contrition is different than fear. I asked can fear and love coexist - not can contrition and love coexist? Contrition is a part of love in my opinion. True fear of the Lord and contrition spring from the same reality. Contrition that springs from ā€œfear of hellā€ IS NOT real Contrition ā€¦ie - Love. Therefore ā€œfear of hellā€ and love CANNOT coexist - while ā€œfear of the Lordā€ springs from love - thus real contrition. Running to confession out of a fear of punishment is not real contrition.

I will never love God out of fear of punishment. That kind of fear cannot coexist with real love.
THISā€¦is a very ā€œfundamentalā€ reason why so many athiests reject ā€œGodā€(The God of Fear).

They have reached an understanding of Love that tells them without any doubt, Fear cannot co-exist with Love. It is not possible. Given no other representation of God , the ā€œfearā€ God, simply does not exist. It cannot be real. Henceā€¦there is nothing out there.
 
Iā€™m surprised anyone has any doubts about answering the question ā€˜yesā€™, to be honest ā€¦

After all, donā€™t we ALL have friends and family, none of whom are capable of rewarding us with heaven or punishing us with hell?
Yes, but our parents and family and friends, did not setup the entire situation, where we would suffer greatly, and then blink out of existance.

Big, Big difference.
 
Jesus never claimed he was ressurected. The disciples of his disciple wrote about a ressurection about 70 years after his death. Jesus would not be the one who was lying.

Just wanted to point that out šŸ™‚
???

Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead. Then He rose from the dead. The fact He never used the word resurrection is irrelevant. He didnā€™t speak English, French, or Latin.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/resurrection

Anyway, whether He said ā€œin a little while you will not see me and then in a little while you will see me.ā€ or ā€œdestroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days.ā€ He meant His ressurection.

ā€¦or was that your point? :hmmm:
 
Cinette;4817547 said:
N O T H I N G!

I shall never forget that moment. In fact, it affects me now as I remember it. It will take a while to put that feeling aside.

Iā€™m sorry to derail for a bit, but it is slightly on topic when it comes to how we feel about ā€œgodā€.What youā€™ve described is exactly what many athiests go through. They run from it for many years sometimes, but eventually they donā€™t hide from that ā€œawarenessā€. It is a shift in conciousness. It smacks just a little too much of ā€œtruthā€ and the athiestā€¦pursues truthā€¦beyond pain and fearā€¦

This hopelessness you felt? It probably felt like some kind of devil chewing away at you, like some kind of evil horror that could not possibly exist and you run from it like the wind.

The athiest, became aware of itā€¦and was questioning enough to say ā€œWhy did I feel this way? Am I truly believing in a God, because Iā€™m scared of the alternative? who am I? who taught me what I know about God? who are these people? is this actually LOVE? OMGā€¦is it all a LIE?ā€

Most athiests have gone through this if they were ā€œraisedā€ with religion, and let it go. It isā€¦very very painful.

When some-one sayā€™s ā€œBut what can an athiest offer me?ā€. I would sayā€¦nothing, until you doubt. And not just a smidge of doubt where you run away from itā€™s pain with your tail between your legs.

It is only when it hits you like a tonne of bricks and you simply cannot deny it. Itā€™s like nothing youā€™ve every experienced. People would rather kill, in the name of Godā€¦than deal with their mortality and the fragility of their actual lives, and their own loneliness, meaninglessess and deaths.

We kill, because we die. We KILL, because of that moment you had and how painful it truly is. We do not want anyoneā€¦to force us to face it. Itā€™s too hard.

Thatā€™s when the athiest can help. Believe it or not, a human who has the strength can work through that painā€¦and whatā€™s on the other sideā€¦itā€™s truly wonderful for many people. It may not ā€œsoundā€ like it, but it is a completely different way of viewing the world.

I do wonder however, given the choice of Pillā€¦which one Iā€™d choose. I donā€™t feel like, I was given a choice for the most part. I was just drivenā€¦
 
???

Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead. Then He rose from the dead. The fact He never used the word resurrection is irrelevant. He didnā€™t speak English, French, or Latin.
No what I mean is, the gospels were not written by Jesus. Hence, the claims made about him, were made by other people, not Jesus.
 
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