If There Is No Heaven Will You Still Love God?

[Reepicheep]

Peace of Christ to everyone who visits this thread!

A priest once gave this one liner homily (can’t remember now what the readings were) for the faithful to ponder upon.

I have asked the same question of a few friends and got some good and some quite angry reactions. One said the question was stupid.

The question of course is purely hypothetical and every Christian knows there is a heaven.

But hypothetically, if there is no heaven, if this life here on earth is the only life that God is giving us, would you still love God and follow His commands?

Looking forward to some interesting responses.

I could try.

 

[Cinette]

I’ll respond to the OP before reading.

I’m an agnostic, but wanted to share my thoughts anyway.

If there is a God, and there is no afterlife and explanation given to us for life, I would hate God with a passion.

An uncaring universe that simply exists and ends up with us, is a bit of a cruel joke, but one we can deal with as I have my entire life.

A god, that would create a self-aware creature such as us, only to allow all this pain and suffering for absolutely no purpose…I would despise.

Would I still behave as decently as possible? Of course…I know pain, I don’t want to cause that to another if I can avoid it. But I would have no respect for a creature that created life, for absolutely no purpose and also allowed that life to suffer for no purpose.

I think…if there “IS” a God, there has to be something beyond death. Otherwise, there isn’t a God.

Cheers
Dame

*I believe that you do believe in God and you don’t know it.

You say as much in your posting.

Amen!*

 

[Cinette]

I’m sorry to derail for a bit, but it is slightly on topic when it comes to how we feel about “god”.What you’ve described is exactly what many athiests go through. They run from it for many years sometimes, but eventually they don’t hide from that “awareness”. It is a shift in conciousness. It smacks just a little too much of “truth” and the athiest…pursues truth…beyond pain and fear…

This hopelessness you felt? It probably felt like some kind of devil chewing away at you, like some kind of evil horror that could not possibly exist and you run from it like the wind.

The athiest, became aware of it…and was questioning enough to say “Why did I feel this way? Am I truly believing in a God, because I’m scared of the alternative? who am I? who taught me what I know about God? who are these people? is this actually LOVE? OMG…is it all a LIE?”

Most athiests have gone through this if they were “raised” with religion, and let it go. It is…very very painful.

When some-one say’s “But what can an athiest offer me?”. I would say…nothing, until you doubt. And not just a smidge of doubt where you run away from it’s pain with your tail between your legs.

It is only when it hits you like a tonne of bricks and you simply cannot deny it. It’s like nothing you’ve every experienced. People would rather kill, in the name of God…than deal with their mortality and the fragility of their actual lives, and their own loneliness, meaninglessess and deaths.

We kill, because we die. We KILL, because of that moment you had and how painful it truly is. We do not want anyone…to force us to face it. It’s too hard.

That’s when the athiest can help. Believe it or not, a human who has the strength can work through that pain…and what’s on the other side…it’s truly wonderful for many people. It may not “sound” like it, but it is a completely different way of viewing the world.

I do wonder however, given the choice of Pill…which one I’d choose. I don’t feel like, I was given a choice for the most part. I was just driven…

*I am convinced that you have God within you - it is just that you do not recognise him. And when you do!!! OMG!!! *

 

[jkiernan56]

So I suppose you could say that those who are very aware of Jesus’s presence are already experiencing heaven

Yes - the Kingdom of God not fully yet

I heard a saying once that went "All the way to Heaven is Heaven, because Jesus is the way

And those who love Jesus will naturally be inclined to Love His Mother. We see Christ shining through her soul. How can anyone who is in love with beauty, not be in love with Mary if they are in love with Christ? The same could be said of all the saints

 

[Dameedna]

*I am convinced that you have God within you - it is just that you do not recognise him. And when you do!!! OMG!!! *

Hehe…

Well, God has her work cut out to convince me.

This may sound like arrogance, but it’s not.

 

[jkiernan56]

After reading many of the posts after being away this weekend, I noticed the way some people think and talk about heaven in a way that I used to … a place we go to after we die.

What I have come to learn from prayer and experience is that real love is a participation in heaven here on earth here and now. Christ said “the Kingdom of God is at hand.” I have had a personal experience of God’s love for me. I have experienced heaven to some degree even though what God has in mind for each and all of us is something words won’t even be able to express.

So the question of this thread about “would I still love God if there was no heaven” is a CONTRADICTION IN TERMS. Loving God and doing His will out of Love is a participation in Heaven. And so the answer to the question is a simple “Yes” because loving God and letting God love me is a part of what Heaven is all about. Anyone who has ever experienced real love has experienced a part of Heaven

 

[jkiernan56]

Originally Posted by jkiernan56

That is like saying "but if God’s revelation to us is wrong about LOVE , what else … ". Do you deny the reality of Love? Love and Heaven are intrinsically linked. Real love is a foretaste of Heaven.

But the question is, what if there is no heaven. So I don’t understand your reply at all.

If you understand the relationship between Love and Heaven, you would understand the context of my reply.

 

[Cinette]

Hehe…

Well, God has her work cut out to convince me.

This may sound like arrogance, but it’s not.

You must not play hide and seek with God.

Go meet him half way. You might even challenge Him and ask him to reveal Himself. Only don’t play games.

I only have to look at creation - the universe and all of us to KNOW that we don’t become dust when we die. Our spirit is a living entity.

I knew my husband for over 30 years before he came to believe in God - in his case it was thru a Jewish scientist. I knew some spectacular atheists who were wonderful people - self sacrificing and kind - they also believed in God without knowing it. * I know it.*

Are you a he or a she? A she perhaps?

God bless you
Jeanne

 

[jkiernan56]

Although it is said that we were created in His imagine and likeness, God is inconceivable. We simply cannot imagine who or what God is.

Here is an axi-moron for you - this statement above is both TRUE and FALSE at the same time depending on the context.

We know that only God KNOWS Himself. What He KNOWS He Loves. What He Loves is the eternal Begotten Son - the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. This Person who is completely KNOWN and LOVED by the Father also KNOWS and LOVES the Father - is in LOVE with the Father. This union of LOVE between the Father and the Son is a Person - the 3rd Person of the Holy Trinity. (Hint - Christian marriage and John Paul II Theology of the Body - a glimpse into the Holy Trinity).

We also know that only the Holy Spirit searches the “depths of God”. It is TRUE that you and I in our human finiteness will NEVER FULLY comprehend God. But at the same time, we can SEE GOD tangibly in a Person - Christ. Christ says to us “whoever has seen me, has seen the Father.” In and through Christ we DO see into the mystery of God. While we will never fully comprehend, we still are able to see and comprehend in a very real and tangible way. We see God’s love for each of us in Christ

 

[Cinette]

Our discourse must sound daft to an atheist.

 

[jkiernan56]

Hehe…

Well, God has her work cut out to convince me.

This may sound like arrogance, but it’s not.

Dameedna,

If you are open to love, God will definitely find you

 

[Realcatholicgk]

You must not play hide and seek with God.

Go meet him half way. You might even challenge Him and ask him to reveal Himself. Only don’t play games.

I only have to look at creation - the universe and all of us to KNOW that we don’t become dust when we die. Our spirit is a living entity.

I knew my husband for over 30 years before he came to believe in God - in his case it was thru a Jewish scientist. I knew some spectacular atheists who were wonderful people - self sacrificing and kind - they also believed in God without knowing it. * I know it.*

Are you a he or a she? A she perhaps?

God bless you
Jeanne

Dameedna:

Hehe…

Well, God has her work cut out to convince me.

This may sound like arrogance, but it’s not.

**
Hi Cinette, and Dameedna,

Cinette, you should have called her on that remark!:tsktsk:

Dameedna, No it actually sounded a lot like stupity to me.:whacky: I say that in the name of the FATHER, the son and the Holy Spirit. Show me one place where jesus referred to God as His mother and I will apologize, otherwise you owe God an apology!

:flowers: :flowers:
God Bless! **

 

[jkiernan56]

Good point. Heaven is the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God is within us–for where Christ is, there is his kingdom. So, yeah, I guess, in a feat of semantic gymnastics, heaven is already here among us, in the Bride of Christ.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Peace of Christ to everyone who visits this thread!

A priest once gave this one liner homily (can’t remember now what the readings were) for the faithful to ponder upon.

I have asked the same question of a few friends and got some good and some quite angry reactions. One said the question was stupid.

The question of course is purely hypothetical and every Christian knows there is a heaven.

But hypothetically, if there is no heaven, if this life here on earth is the only life that God is giving us, would you still love God and follow His commands?

Looking forward to some interesting responses.

I would still choose to love God for many reasons. I owe Him my life, He blesses me, He loves me. He comforts me. There are so many reasons. And He does this while still on earth. And when it comes down to it, I would rather be with Him than the devil.

 

[Cinette]

Realcatholicgk:
I thought it was a slip of the finger darlink!

 

[jkiernan56]

THIS…is a very “fundamental” reason why so many athiests reject “God”(The God of Fear).

They have reached an understanding of Love that tells them without any doubt, Fear cannot co-exist with Love. It is not possible. Given no other representation of God , the “fear” God, simply does not exist. It cannot be real. Hence…there is nothing out there.

Excellent points Damedna.

If you turn your ideas on their head and substitute the word Love for fear, you are beginning to understand what some of us have come to know and experience is the real God - the God who came to us in a Person and was willing to suffer for us, so that we would not have to suffer the eternal loss of God, the eternal loss of Love.

The Kingdom of God is not God ruling people by means of fear, but by means of love.

 

[fhansen]

Excellent points Damedna.

If you turn your ideas on their head and substitute the word Love for fear, you are beginning to understand what some of us have come to know and experience is the real God - the God who came to us in a Person and was willing to suffer for us, so that we would not have to suffer the eternal loss of God, the eternal loss of Love.

The Kingdom of God is not God ruling people by means of fear, but by means of love.

I like this paragraph from the CCC:

399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness. They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.

And in John15 Jesus quotes Psalms in describing the worlds’ attitude towards deity:

“But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’”

God *always *loved man. The unnatural separation of man from God comes from mans’ side-his unreasonable lack of trust in and love for God.

In no greater way has God demonstrated His love to a world which undeservedly denied that love than by the life, death, and resurrection of His Son-of Himself. The resurrection (meaning for us the promise of eternal life) cannot be separated from the love of God.

 

[jkiernan56]

I like this paragraph from the CCC:

399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness. They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.

And in John15 Jesus quotes Psalms in describing the worlds’ attitude towards deity:

“But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’”

God *always *loved man. The unnatural separation of man from God comes from mans’ side-his unreasonable lack of trust in and love for God.

In no greater way has God demonstrated His love to a world which undeservedly denied that love than by the life, death, and resurrection of His Son-of Himself. The resurrection (meaning for us the promise of eternal life) cannot be separated from the love of God.

I am of the mind that Fear does not bring anyone to God - but rather drives them away from God. Dameedna has some very good points of why some people do not accept the God of Christianity - because they see this God through the lens of fear. Fear does not bring anyone to God. Only love does. I don’t say this hypothetically, but rather from personal experience

 

[fhansen]

I am of the mind that Fear does not bring anyone to God - but rather drives them away from God. Dameedna has some very good points of why some people do not accept the God of Christianity - because they see this God through the lens of fear. Fear does not bring anyone to God. Only love does.

Yes, I agree that Dameedna brings up good points. And I’m saying that God never deserved to be feared in the way man came to fear Him at the fall. If, OTOH, by fear of God we simply mean having an awe or the recognition of His vast, unfathomable superiority, this is wisdom. But in any case if our love and trust in God doesn’t continuously grow upward, then we’re not growing much in our faith.

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children. St Basil

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

That is true. But that still does not make God is Heaven true, because one’s abode is not one’s self. Above and self are two different things. God is not His Above.

That heaven is not the firmament that the OT writer conceives of does not make any difference. God is still not Heaven. Being with God is heaven but being with God is not God. It is very important to make this distinction.
Heaven may be the place where God is or the state of being with God but heaven and God are still two different “things”. Heaven is God’s Kingdom if we take the language of the NT but God’s Kingdom is not God. His Being however is what makes it His Kingdom.

I cannot prove it but no one can prove or disprove my theory. So I choose to stick by it, because the church seems to allow me on this point. It’s omplex and there can be much more about this heaven than we know and no official teaching yet…