If you lose all your body parts can you still be alive?

[grannymh]

I don’t believe that we have immortality yet, but we receive it when we receive the ‘glorified bodies’ at the end. As I said, we are made of spirit and body, and those two make a soul. And the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When that will happen we will have immortality because the body will not decay, will nor perish and it will be immortal. God didn’t give us an immortal soul, but made us a soul, living soul. This soul is not immortal, meaning that we are not immortal. We live to get closer to God and achieve immortality.

I read the definitions you gave for spirit. Over the centuries, spirit has been used to describe many things from God to excitement at the Olympics. Soul too has increased its meanings to be an adjective for food or music.

You said above that “we are made of spirit and body and those two make a soul.” When I look at a person and say spirit and body, I am describing human nature. When I look at a person and say rational and corporeal, I am describing human nature. I could also say spiritual and material or immaterial and material to describe human nature. Where I live, most of the time we describe human nature as soul and body.

In other words, our human nature consists of an unique unification of both spiritual (soul) and material (body). Since spiritual can also be seen as immortal, our human nature is both, at the same time, immortal and mortal.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

www.CatholicsComeHomeRockford.org
www.CatholicsComeHome.org

 

[StAnastasia]

IWe live to get closer to God and achieve immortality.

Christian, I like some of what you say, but I don’t agree if you mean that we achieve immortality on our own. I think the life eternal comes only through God’s gift of resurrection into the new creation.

 

[grannymh]

Christian, I like some of what you say, but I don’t agree if you mean that we achieve immortality on our own. I think the life eternal comes only through God’s gift of resurrection into the new creation.

Catholic teaching is that the soul, because it is spiritual, is immortal from the moment of human conception. The resurrection of Jesus Christ assures us that our bodies will be raised from the dead and share in eternal life.

 

[StAnastasia]

Catholic teaching is that the soul, because it is spiritual, is immortal from the moment of human conception. The resurrection of Jesus Christ assures us that our bodies will be raised from the dead and share in eternal life.

That’s an interesting perspective, that raises some intriguing scientific questions, some of which are forbidden to discuss on CAF

 

[Memaw]

Memaw can you please direct me to the relevant passages?

A smart scientist like you and you can’t find Church teaching on that, My My, what can I say! You might check with some of those many Priests and Bishops you claim to know so well, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Catholic teaching is that the soul, because it is spiritual, is immortal from the moment of human conception. The resurrection of Jesus Christ assures us that our bodies will be raised from the dead and share in eternal life.

AMEN, GOD Bless, Memaw

 

[StAnastasia]

A smart scientist like you and you can’t find Church teaching on that, My My, what can I say! You might check with some of those many Priests and Bishops you claim to know so well, God Bless, Memaw

Memaw, a response like that would earn you a D- in my graduate seminar, not because it is rude but because it contributes nothing at all to the discussion. Do I take it you are refusing to offer me evidence for your position?

 

[StAnastasia]

Memaw, a response like that would earn you a D- in my graduate seminar, not because it is rude but because it contributes nothing at all to the discussion. Do I take it you are refusing to offer me evidence for your position?

Memaw, to repeat, I’m interested in the supporting evidence for your claim in post # 89, “The soul is immortal and can never be destroyed. The body is mortal and can and will be reduced to dust after death, until the end of time.” Try to integrate in and put it in your own words, rather than simply launching an attack on me

 

[grannymh]

That’s an interesting perspective, that raises some intriguing scientific questions, some of which are forbidden to discuss on CAF

Good news. The soul is not in your scientific realm.

When I first landed on CAF, I posted that the soul is what connects me with God. Of course, some posters thought that was too simple an answer.

However, knowing that the soul is spiritual and is meant to share in God’s life is a good place to start. Our human nature which is an unique unification of spirit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul and body is what makes it possible for us to have eternal life with God.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is meant for eternal life.

 

[StAnastasia]

Good news. The soul is not in your scientific realm.

True, but the idea raises questions relevant to science, and science can inform theology.

 

[grannymh]

Memaw, to repeat, I’m interested in the supporting evidence for your claim in post # 89, “The soul is immortal and can never be destroyed. The body is mortal and can and will be reduced to dust after death, until the end of time.”

Maybe I can help.

When one says that the body is mortal, that means that it decomposes when it is no longer living. After sufficient time, the flesh and organs have decomposed to a point which may appear like heavy “dust”. Now I am not too sure what happens to one’s bony structure after being in the ground for centuries. However, for literary purposes, enough of the original living body is unrecognizable. As for supporting evidence of the above process, you can check with the scientists in your building.

The soul is spiritual which means that it does not consist of matter like our bodies. Therefore it does not decompose which means that it is immortal.
If you want to put the soul under the natural science microscope, you are out of luck.

Nonetheless, it is possible for one to determine that the soul exists, This is usually done by one’s own rational thought process or by reading the written thoughts of others. Often one learns about the soul by listening to others speak about it. Or one experiences God.

Warning.
If one lives by the philosophy of materialism-- that all reality is material or physical-- then it will be difficult for this person to understand the immortal spiritual soul.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect.

 

[StAnastasia]

Nonetheless, it is possible for one to determine that the soul exists, This is usually done by one’s own rational thought process or by reading the written thoughts of others. Often one learns about the soul by listening to others speak about it. Or one experiences God.

Interesting proposal, Granny. How does having a thought process demonstrate that you have a soul? Or are you suggesting that the soul and the mind are identical?

 

[lobster]

You brain is what you are… and don’t worry because there is no brain transplant. You have a foot to carry your brain around. All the organs are for keeping your brain alive, directly of indirectly. And the list can go on.

You are your brain. And don’t worry, it is impossible for you to substitute your brain. Someone said that for a computer to do the job of the brain you’d need a computer with the size of the Empire State Building, so replacing your brain would be impossible.

It is as much the killing of a person when the unborn, who have yet no brain, are extinguished in the womb. This is because ones brain is not who one is.

 

[Namesake]

GEddie, I’m working (long range) on theology as if science mattered. I’m naturally interested – for my chapter on eschatology – on the future of the human person in terms of the “new creation.” On thing that troubles me is the overlay of Greek dualistic philosophical categories on the essentially Hebraic conception of the psycho-somatic unity. Immortality or a detachable “soul” seems foreign to the original Hebrew conception as reflected in the “Old Testament,” and seems foreign to the teaching of Jesus. The promise of resurrection of the whole person to new life appears more in keeping with His thought. What do you think?

StAnastasia

I am certain that you would enjoy reading You Are Not A Gadget by Jaron Lanier.

amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Gadget-Manifesto/dp/0307269647

Has to do with losing our individual humanness to information technology. It’s very relevant to this discussion, and I am sure you would get it very well.

 

[GEddie]

Let’s say I lose an arm and replace it with a robotic arm. Then I lose a leg and replace it with a robotic leg. Then I get a robotic heart after mine fails. Then a portion of my brain fails and I get a robotic part to replace it. Let’s say this goes on and on till my entire body is robotic. At what point is my soul not on earth anymore? How much of me can be a robot before I die?

With each major part of your being that is lost and prosthetized, you are less alive. Your limbs are alive; mechanical limbs are not. Your heart is alive, a mechanical one is not. SO with each replacement, you are less alive. Once all of your head has been prosthetized, a thought process resembling your own may still be going on; but you would be dead, because no part of “you” remains alive. To be alive requires a LIVING organism i.e., body.

To answer your question, the point where you die is the point where the last bit of your human self, ceases functioning or perishes.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Namesake]

To answer your question, the point where you die is the point where the last bit of your human self, ceases functioning or perishes.

ICXC NIKA

So then, death doesn’t happen until every single cell in a person’s body ceases to function, even minimally. Are you sure you mean that?

 

[GEddie]

So then, death doesn’t happen until every single cell in a person’s body ceases to function, even minimally. Are you sure you mean that?

No, I wasn’t thinking about natural death; the original question involved replacing the human body, bit by bit with mechanical parts (limbs, then organs, then parts of the brain, etc) and if the “person” is still “alive” after the process runs through. I’d say once the last bit of the brain as “replaced”, the subject is dead because no part of him is ‘alive’, even if a thought process associated with him continues. In a death situation, life ends when no part of the brain is still living.

ICXC NIKA

 

[lobster]

No, I wasn’t thinking about natural death; the original question involved replacing the human body, bit by bit with mechanical parts (limbs, then organs, then parts of the brain, etc) and if the “person” is still “alive” after the process runs through. I’d say once the last bit of the brain as “replaced”, the subject is dead because no part of him is ‘alive’, even if a thought process associated with him continues. In a death situation, life ends when no part of the brain is still living.

ICXC NIKA

And when does life end for someone who hasn’t had the opportunity yet of having a brain?

 

[GEddie]

And when does life end for someone who hasn’t had the opportunity yet of having a brain?

When all the body cells perish. If as I imagine, you are referring to embryos and fetuses, there is no separately functioning body to cease life.

 

[grannymh]

Interesting proposal, Granny.

I was thinking about you last night. What are the names of the courses you are teaching this semester?

Blessings,
granny

Isaiah 55