Immaculate Conception Readings confusing

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“Julius_Caesar said:
The birth was the only thing that happened.in.the future. Try again.
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
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Gabriel speaks of the conception, birth and the naming all as a future event. What isn’t said is you are conceiving right now. It is all future. Mary was married. She doesn’t say “I don’t live with Joseph” She doesn’t even speak about Joseph, Gabriel does not give a time frame of when it will happen other than it will be a future event.

What you have been unable to refute is that it is future. Mary was married. It is not germane that she wasn’t presently living with Joseph as she expected to live with Joseph. She would have understood that Gabriel spoke about a future event. IF she had planned on a normal life with Joseph she would not of asked that question.

One other point is that you say you believe she remained a virgin and yet you don’t have a good explanation as to why she would have other than the vague “Mary and Joseph can simply decide to dedicate their lives to solely raising Jesus.”

I am still looking for proof that they had to remain “pure” for a year. It was not in the link you provided.
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hope said:
One other point is that you say you believe she remained a virgin and yet you don’t have a good explanation as to why she would have
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Your vow explanation has no indication in the text. It’s a case of eisegesis.
 
On the contrary, it has a very solid basis in Tradition.
Catholic Answers:
However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated “virgin of the Lord,” to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium , Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).
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Wikipedia is not a reliable source. In the article there were severable errors due to not understanding either the Greek language or the Jewish tradition.

Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

MARY CONSECRATED HER LIFE TO GOD BY A VOW OF VIRGINITY

The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Gabriel’s Annunciation to Mary About Jesus’ Birth

No her being a virgin isn’t dependent on her vow but it does explain her question which is better explained in these linked articles which I am sure you will dismiss out of hand.
Yet no one but Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa start to mention it.
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I am not clear on what you believe is only mentioned by these two???
Your vow explanation has no indication in the text. It’s a case of eisegesis.
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It is not only mine but if you look at the links you will see many others do to. I guess you can accuse them of personnel interpretation as well.
You still have not answered why she would ask such a question. Your answers on this point are flawed which have been pointed out to you which you ignore.
Gabriel did not say it would happen immediately as that was a personnel interpretation on your part.
 
hope said:
I am not clear on what you believe is only mentioned by these two???
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These men started the trend.
hope said:
but it does explain her question which is better explained in these linked articles which I am sure you will dismiss out of hand
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Like you dismiss the option that it’s a normal question given that Mary isn’t in Joseph’s home and the marriage hasn’t been finalized.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
Like you dismiss the option that it’s a normal question given that Mary isn’t in Joseph’s home and the marriage hasn’t been finalized.
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I didn’t dismiss it. I didn’t agree with your personnel opinion. I explained why this was not a logical conclusion. I explained more than once that Gabriel did not give a time frame. What you have not explained is why it would be a “normal” question when Mary knew that it was a future event. Why she wouldn’t have thought that it would happen when she was with Joseph. It is the fact that Gabriel said it as a future event that your option falls apart.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
No, you explained why you think it’s a logical conclusion.
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This makes no sense. I didn’t support your opinion. Therefore I didn’t explain it as a logical conclusion. But I guess this is just a dodge to avoid addressing my point. It was not a normal question. Your option has fallen apart.
 
Telstar said:
Satan in that passage. He’s the “destroyer of souls”, not God. So, Jesus is not referring to Himself, or to the Father.
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satan has no power to destroy souls in the sense of condemnation.
1st CORINTHIANS 10:13 13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
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In a sense people who go to Hell destroy themselves.

They are very self-destructive people.

They have spent a significant part of their life rejecting God.

Their final act (at their judgment) will be to choose Hell.

God has the power to give them what they desire (They demand . . . . “My will be done!”
Instead of “Thy will be done!”).
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
I specifically showed how no Patristic sources before Augustine mentioned it. Then you responded with the standard, Wikipedia is inaccurate.
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What?
Like you dismiss the option that it’s a normal question given that Mary isn’t in Joseph’s home and the marriage hasn’t been finalized.
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. I explained more than once that Gabriel did not give a time frame. What you have not explained is why it would be a “normal” question when Mary knew that it was a future event. Why she wouldn’t have thought that it would happen when she was with Joseph. It is the fact that Gabriel said it as a future event that your option falls apart.
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You answer with this non-sequencer
I specifically showed how no Patristic sources before Augustine mentioned it. Then you responded with the standard, Wikipedia is inaccurate.
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Julius_Caesar said:
I specifically showed how no Patristic sources before Augustine mentioned it. Then you responded with the standard, Wikipedia is inaccurate.
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You are incorrect on this as my previous link showed. As I wrote, I knew you wouldn’t bother reading them.
 
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I checked the link. No Patristic sources before Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa.
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Augustine born 354 writings started at 386
Gregory of Nyssa.born 335

How did you miss these?

Origen of Alexandria
Commentary on Matthew* [A.D. 248]).
Gregory Thaumaturgus Mid 200
Ephrem the Syrian 330
Athanasius Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Basil the Great **“Mary the Perpetual(Ever) Virgin”**365
 
hope said:
Origen of Alexandria
Commentary on Matthew* [A.D. 248]).
Gregory Thaumaturgus Mid 200
Ephrem the Syrian 330
Athanasius Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Basil the Great **“Mary the Perpetual(Ever) Virgin”**365
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No vow of virginity is specified. And for the simple fact Scripture doesn’t mention it. Pious speculation.
 
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