Immodesty and the lack of respect for women - two sides of the same coin.

[Serap]

Lily_M;

I agree with you 100% that us women should dress modestly. The trouble I have is that I’m pretty and I have a nice figure. It really doesn’t take much for me to look sexy. Now that I’m older, it’s not as bad, but even when I dress in modest clothing, men still lust.

I have 2 kids and even with them, I still get “those” looks from men at times even when I’m carrying my baby.

Men are definitely not off the hook b/c I do dress modestly. I guess b/c (especially in my 20’s), men were horrible to me with lustful actions towards me for no reason. I never understood why men were so gross. Now this is not all men, but it seemed that way when I was younger.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Lily_M;

I agree with you 100% that us women should dress modestly. The trouble I have is that I’m pretty and I have a nice figure. It really doesn’t take much for me to look sexy. Now that I’m older, it’s not as bad, but even when I dress in modest clothing, men still lust.

I have 2 kids and even with them, I still get “those” looks from men at times even when I’m carrying my baby.

Men are definitely not off the hook b/c I do dress modestly. I guess b/c (especially in my 20’s), men were horrible to me with lustful actions towards me for no reason. I never understood why men were so gross. Now this is not all men, but it seemed that way when I was younger.

Sweetie, if you are trying your best, then it isn’t you…it’s them.

There is a famous photograph called, American Girl in Italy. Google it if you have never seen it. Notice how she is dressed, and how the men are treating her anyway.

 

[bobolink]

OK, got it. From now on I will never, ever respect anyone who doesn’t dress the way I see fit. Anyone who exercises their freedom as a human being to wear what they choose is obviously unworthy of respect.

C’mon, as much griping as I’ve seen in these forums about the ‘evils of feminism,’ you’re proving them right: you’re saying that men are weak-minded imbeciles with no self-control. ‘Boo hoo, it’s all women’s fault we think the way we do, we can’t help it.’ I would have expected better from Christians.

But thank you so much for the laugh.

Miz

You can laugh and mock if you like.

But we Christians *are *our brother’s (and sister’s) keeper. How we dress *does *affect the souls of others. I am a young man and if a woman or girl is immodestly dressed, I can fall into mortal sin, even at Mass. This is very grave.

check it out: evangelizationstation.com/Pamphlets/455%20Immodest%20Dress%20in%20the%20Church.pdf

 

[BlueShadow123]

Its okay, i turn heads too. Its ridiculous. I dont even try to be pretty yet i always get people telling me im ‘sexy or beautiful’. Really shows how guys always have sex on their minds

I dont see myself like others do, but wherever i go, i get guys checking me out constantly. I always look at them and smile like ‘yep, i see you!’. Lol, its kinda funny, but whatever. heads turn, and i keep walking.

 

[Serap]

Its okay, i turn heads too. Its ridiculous. I dont even try to be pretty yet i always get people telling me im ‘sexy or beautiful’. Really shows how guys always have sex on their minds

I dont see myself like others do, but wherever i go, i get guys checking me out constantly. I always look at them and smile like ‘yep, i see you!’. Lol, its kinda funny, but whatever. heads turn, and i keep walking.

Do you get jealous wives and girlfriends giving you the cold shoulder too? I used to get that before I was married with kids. Women are a little nicer to me now that I’m almost 40 with 2 children. I guess they figure I must really be off the market and won’t entice their husbands to the “dark side”.

They are nicer to me, but most are still not interested in a friendship with me. They were hostile to me when I was unmarried. I always dressed modestly too.

Mary_Gail…thanks honey!!! You’re always so good to me

 

[BlueShadow123]

Do you get jealous wives and girlfriends giving you the cold shoulder too? I used to get that before I was married with kids. Women are a little nicer to me now that I’m almost 40 with 2 children. I guess they figure I must really be off the market and won’t entice their husbands to the “dark side”.

They are nicer to me, but most are still not interested in a friendship with me. They were hostile to me when I was unmarried. I always dressed modestly too.

Mary_Gail…thanks honey!!! You’re always so good to me

I have gotten girls hating on me because they think im gorgeous. Its ridiculous. As for husbands, i hope the wives dont get jealous of me. im only 16… but i do look much older (not in a bad way). I have passed for 21.
As for girls my age, yes they get jealous when their guys look at me.

Although i do get older men looking at me too. From any age, and any stage.

 

[Serap]

I have gotten girls hating on me because they think im gorgeous. Its ridiculous. As for husbands, i hope the wives dont get jealous of me. im only 16… but i do look much older (not in a bad way). I have passed for 21.
As for girls my age, yes they get jealous when their guys look at me.

Although i do get older men looking at me too. From any age, and any stage.

Blue Shadow, get ready for it It’s a blessing and a hinderance at the same time.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Blue Shadow, get ready for it It’s a blessing and a hinderance at the same time.

I’m already used to it. Everywhere I go, I get guys checking me out. I could be in a crowd of girls, and yet they would all still look at me. It is aboslutely ridiculous. Why am i the one they have to check out? Its actually quite annoying when everywhere i go, men always check me out. I just want to be un-noticed for once so that I know im not being watched constantly by these guys. =/ And yes, they are looking at me because i can see them doing it, lol. oh well.

 

[Serap]

I’m already used to it. Everywhere I go, I get guys checking me out. I could be in a crowd of girls, and yet they would all still look at me. It is aboslutely ridiculous. Why am i the one they have to check out? Its actually quite annoying when everywhere i go, men always check me out. I just want to be un-noticed for once so that I know im not being watched constantly by these guys. =/ And yes, they are looking at me because i can see them doing it, lol. oh well.

Just remember those Catholic values…beauty comes from within and being kind and humble is more beautiful that outside appearance. If you remember this, you will attract husband material later on in your life

 

[Miserys_Fence]

You can laugh and mock if you like.

But we Christians *are *our brother’s (and sister’s) keeper. How we dress *does *affect the souls of others. I am a young man and if a woman or girl is immodestly dressed, I can fall into mortal sin, even at Mass. This is very grave.

check it out: evangelizationstation.com/Pamphlets/455%20Immodest%20Dress%20in%20the%20Church.pdf

Well, then, dearie, if it’s my responsibility to make sure you don’t ogle me, I certainly have a plan. If I think you’re looking at me inappropriately, I’ll just whup the ever-lovin’ snot outta ya so you never, ever dare to look at another woman again.

Of course, if you wish to take responsibility for yourself, you may wish to choose a less painful method that will not result in your hospitalization.

Miz

 

[BlueShadow123]

Just remember those Catholic values…beauty comes from within and being kind and humble is more beautiful that outside appearance. If you remember this, you will attract husband material later on in your life

Yeah but my mission in life isnt to get a husband and start a family. there are places i want to go and see and do in my life. if a man comes along, thats one thing, but its not my focus. Either way, when it comes to the people checking you out, i know exactly what you’re going through.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

You can laugh and mock if you like.

But we Christians *are *our brother’s (and sister’s) keeper. How we dress *does *affect the souls of others. I am a young man and if a woman or girl is immodestly dressed, I can fall into mortal sin, even at Mass. This is very grave.

check it out: evangelizationstation.com/Pamphlets/455%20Immodest%20Dress%20in%20the%20Church.pdf

There is no freedom, and should be no freedom, to dress any way at Mass. There is a dress code, which calls for modest dressing. Unfortunately, there are habitual offenders who routinely disregard the dress code.

What goes on in the outside, secular world, is another issue. The secular world legalized abortion. In the secular world, we have environmental and gay parades with half naked women and men taking to the streets. I even saw a TV interview with a woman in Portland, OR, who goes buck naked on the streets, because that’s how she feels comfortable (she was only shown from the neck up on TV, LOL). She couldn’t care less that other folks don’t feel comfortable with a naked person in their midst. She took the secular argument to its logical conclusion. Do what you want and blame the others if they don’t like what they see. But maybe, the secular principle can be taken even further. During Mardi Gras in New Orleans, some people were not only naked, but had public sex on Bourbon Street. Do what you want and blame the others if they don’t like what they see. At least, while public sex is confined to Bourbon Street, people who don’t want to see it will avoid going to Bourbon Street. I guess, the next frontier for the “do what you want” philosophers is to take their acts to other public places. To streets and public parks frequented by the general public, including parents with small children. It will be all about liberation, all about the freedom to be yourself and express yourself any way you want it, and putting an end to the outrageous, backward domination of those intolerant people who would impose limits on other people’s freedoms. The freedom to be naked, anywhere. The freedom to have sex, right in the middle of a busy public street. These are lofty ideals worth fighting for, even dying for. Martin Luther King Jr. would have surely embraced these ideals.

 

[masha]

I always get so confused in these modesty discussions. Everyone always talks of the appropriateness of lovely long skirts and dresses, and blouses buttoned up to the chin, but when I actually see women wearing clothing that conforms to the “Marylike Dress” pamphlet, it generally looks frumpy, tasteless, and often as though it were designed to obscure the beauty of femininity in polyester and rayon.

It’s nice that some pious souls have set down their own ideas of what is modest, but they are not law, and we should remember that there are always good, and sometimes saintly men and women who go overboard on the modesty track and end up with immodestly modest extremes (St. Jerome struggled with the swish of womens skirts and the creak of womens shoes, but no one suggests women stay still and bare-foot for modestly’s sake).

 

[MerryCatholic]

Immodesty and the lack of respect for women - two sides of the same coin.

.

well. let me add my point of view. in regards to jobs, sometimes women dress tackily thinking that if they show their assets that men are more likely to hire them than a woman who is dressed classy and modestly. obviously, that is wrong of women to dress tackily because it can cause a scandal or an occasion of sin. today’s society is bent on doing what we want and me-ism. there is a serious lack of promotion of the modest clothing in life. women want to look sexy because they feel like they have a right to it. looking sexy is okay, but that is privately for your spouse.

women don’t seem to realize that you can look very nice without looking tacky. you can dress nice without looking like a tacky woman. dress pleasingly to God.

 

[Palomas]

Hello all,

I realize I am a bit late to the discussion, but I wanted to add my 2 cents…

First, I wholeheartedly agree with the OP that the immodesty, especially by women, has lead to a steady decline of respect for them and a downward spiral in our society regarding morals.

Second, all of us, both men and women, have a responsibility to be charitable in the way we dress so as not to cause another to stumble. Women, we have a responsibility to dress in a way that doesn’t entice our brothers (to be appealing and attractive to your husband, however, is something we should do, and is completely a different issue, but we should still try to balance that with modesty while out in public). Men, you have a responsibility to try to train your eyes and your thoughts so that what you see doesn’t turn into impure thoughts, and this takes a lot of prayer and hard work to do, but it can be done. Please know that I support you in prayer. Women, when we’re tempted to blame men for sinning when they see us dressed provocatively, we should ask ourselves if we have been party to another’s sin by how we dress. Because being an accomplice to sin doesn’t acquit us of guilt in the matter. There may be some that don’t realize how they come across, or that what they’re wearing causes men so much trouble (I was one of those women, and thankfully I have come to understand this). If this is the case, there is probably less guilt for her. But if we have an inkling as to how we come across when dressed less modestly, and yet we still do it, we do have part of the burden of their sin.

Third, for Serap and BlueShadow, you have mentioned about how, while even dressed modestly, you still get looks by men and get angry looks by the women. While I don’t get constant looks everywhere I go, I still get my fair share, and it was simply uncomfortable for me until I started doing something different. Things started turning around for me when I started wearing more longer skirts – the women were less “hating on me” for lack of a better way to describe it. I don’t know if you’ve tried this, but if you try it (of course making sure to cover up top at the same time) you might notice the same things. While men still will notice you, they’ll probably be more “reverent” (that’s the only word I can think of right now), and the women and girls are more pleasant and actually might smile at you.

Fourth, someone posted here about how, when they wear pants, they try to wear a much longer top. I do this too, because my husband likes me in jeans, so when I wear them and we’re in public, I wear a longer top or sweater so as to cover my back side.

Thanks for reading. God bless,
Palomas

 

[Aetheria]

I for one haven’t noticed any difference at all in how others treat me when I’m wearing trousers and when I’m wearing skirts. It’s not as if I haven’t tried regularly wearing skirts - I wear them far more than pants, actually, because they look better on me (they’re good for camouflaging short legs and I like the swishiness). But when I’m in jeans, nobody seems to be instinctively less friendly. Gentlemanly Catholic guys are still gentlemanly. Snooty girls in class are no more snooty. Well-intentioned strangers still hold doors for me and elderly nuns still smile back when I say “hi” in passing.

I guess it might help that I’m small, unthreatening and strike people as “cute” no matter what I’m wearing, but really, you’d expect that if pants equalled instant lack of respect, all these people would be frowning upon me anyway.

So I’m of the opinion that these “challenges” to women to wear more or longer skirts aren’t very useful. Yeah, feeling like you look more feminine can be a good thing, but that doesn’t necessarily mean wearing a skirt. It could just as well be that what motivates others to treat you like a lady is your attitude far more than your skirt or lack thereof.

 

[Serap]

The problem for me wearing longer skirts, shirts, etc. is that my husband wouldn’t like it at all. He’d tell me I look frumpy and why won’t I wear something more feminine.

I can’t win outside or at home. I just have to accept things the way they are and gradually as I become older, it will be less and less.

 

[RachelKH]

husbands shouldn’t want their wives looked at by other men in lustful ways – teach your husband why you want to be respected more by him and others as more than eyecandy for him and them. it can be difficult dressing pleasingly for your husband yet modestly before others – add in being a good role model for your daughters and example for your sons, and it can be really hard. but, perhaps, making the bedroom an area and time to dress pleasingly and more ‘showingly’ only for your husband can lead to more together time spent building a closer bond physically, mentally, emotionally in ways you both will benefit.

i am not a great example because my husband is the king of lusting at all women anywhere and feeling that ‘they know what they are offering me so i can lust as much as i want with impunity’ yet wanted me to dress modestly at all times so i was ‘mother/servant/work horse’ to him and he wouldn’t have to worry about any messy feelings of loyalty or marital fidelity, even though he used me for his physical outlet many times a week. sooo – i’m just offering advice i’ve gotten from others. maybe, maybe not.

and just because people are nice to you doesn’t mean you are dressed appropriately. many people are just kind and pray you on to better understanding on your journey. in real life, we all tend to bite out tongues and be kind, don’t we? know what is right and do it – isn’t that the Catholic way? not by the world’s standards but by God’s.

 

[Serap]

husbands shouldn’t want their wives looked at by other men in lustful ways – teach your husband why you want to be respected more by him and others as more than eyecandy for him and them. it can be difficult dressing pleasingly for your husband yet modestly before others – add in being a good role model for your daughters and example for your sons, and it can be really hard. but, perhaps, making the bedroom an area and time to dress pleasingly and more ‘showingly’ only for your husband can lead to more together time spent building a closer bond physically, mentally, emotionally in ways you both will benefit.

i am not a great example because my husband is the king of lusting at all women anywhere and feeling that ‘they know what they are offering me so i can lust as much as i want with impunity’ yet wanted me to dress modestly at all times so i was ‘mother/servant/work horse’ to him and he wouldn’t have to worry about any messy feelings of loyalty or marital fidelity, even though he used me for his physical outlet many times a week. sooo – i’m just offering advice i’ve gotten from others. maybe, maybe not.

and just because people are nice to you doesn’t mean you are dressed appropriately. many people are just kind and pray you on to better understanding on your journey. in real life, we all tend to bite out tongues and be kind, don’t we? know what is right and do it – isn’t that the Catholic way? not by the world’s standards but by God’s.

Thanks. Problem is that we have NO couple time whatsoever. We have two young ones and no family support for babysitting,etc. Bedroom is usually a “quicky” b4 one of our kids asks for something

Anyway, I’m comfortable with my modest, yet feminine way of dressing and my husband doesn’t lust after other women. He’s a good boy

Pretty women have their work cut out for them…men just lust after attractive women. It’s the way humans are designed. I do my best to be respectful of myself and look pretty for my husband (despite vomit stains on my shirts).

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The problem for me wearing longer skirts, shirts, etc. is that my husband wouldn’t like it at all. He’d tell me I look frumpy and why won’t I wear something more feminine.

I can’t win outside or at home. I just have to accept things the way they are and gradually as I become older, it will be less and less.

Serap, I’m a bit older than you ( a year or 2 I think) I normally wear pants, capri’s in the summer, etc.

I have a few skirts (I don’t dress professionally because I’m a full time mom) They aren’t long, but knee legnth. If you watch “What not to wear” with Stacy and Clinton, they often show nice outfits, and I think they are modest, I try to find outfits that they say would complement my figure.

Were you able to google the photo I mentioned? What else could she have possibly done to attract less attention? I don’t think much.