Info on SDA

[Australis]

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that, actually

JW’s and SDAs. SDAs weren’t always Trinitarians.

Oh yeah Javl you’re right, they do have very strong convictions about Saturday worship. They talk about it a lot & believe it’s a forever commandment.

Can’t believe I forgot that one!

 

[loneviking]

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that, actually. SDAs are Trinitarians, from my understanding.

SDA’s believe that too! Not all SDA’s are trinitarian, although officially the denominational statement is basically trinitarian.

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

really! Thanks for the info guys, I never knew that.

 

[Protestant101]

JW’s and SDAs. SDAs weren’t always Trinitarians.

Oh yeah Javl you’re right, they do have very strong convictions about Saturday worship. They talk about it a lot & believe it’s a forever commandment.

Can’t believe I forgot that one!

Glad you didn’t. Now maybe you can tell the truth about the other points you raised.

You might want to try explaining why our take on the Sabbath is not a “forever” commandment; while the other nine are.

 

[Protestant101]

really! Thanks for the info guys, I never knew that.

You should try getting more accurate info from Adventists

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

You should try getting more accurate info from Adventists

I’d appreciate your view on Jesus’ relationship (if there is one) with Michael.

 

[loneviking]

It’s too strict!

Here are points I picked up during my own investigation:

• They aggressively refute non SDAs, not just Catholics.
• They only recently adopted the trinity doctrine.
• I heard one claim the wrath of God is on Christians who don’t believe in soul sleep.
• Christians must believe Ellen White is irrefutable or at least close to. SDA pastors who don’t have claimed to have been disassociated.
• Christians are advised to be vegetarian, only eat a little egg and nowadays *no *fish. (Their health advisors believe the sea is too polluted).
• No jewellry or wedding rings
• Cosmetics are frowned upon
• Plain dress only
• No caffeine, alcohol or tobacco
• They stress over simple things like driving a car to the airport on the Sabbath
• they especially stress over what their children do on the Sabbath day
• Bible Studies and church take up half the Sabbath day
• They avoid questions and can be rude and when answering (very defensive)

That was just my own experience. I hope your friend is happy and considers any children involved.

The Trinity doctrine was officially adopted as a statement of belief in 1933.

Wrath of God on those who don’t believe in soul sleep? That’s a new one for me, but you can hear all sorts of strange opinions from the far right side of the church.

E.G. White is ‘a continuing and authoritative’ source. Oddly, they don’t believe that she is infallible nor do they believe that the Bible is infallible! They believe in ‘thought inspiration’ where only the ‘thoughts’ were given to the prophets who then figured out how to express those thoughts. That results in SDA’s doing a lot of ‘well, that’s what the text says but here’s what it really means’.

Vegetarianism is emphasized and encouraged but carnivores aren’t excommunicated. For an SDA truly following EG White the list of prohbited foods is very long. Caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, vinegar, pepper, mustard, milk and sugar together…to name just a few.

Plain dress? For the conservatives in the church, but there’s plenty of moderates and liberals that don’t agree.

Wedding rings are now officially O.K…well, at least at the denominational level. Lots of conservative SDA’s still won’t wear them.

Bible studies and church take up have the day? Hmmm, not any more so than my Lutheran service does.

Yes, they do stress over what their children do on the Sabbath day----can’t have them out having fun. Oh gosh, the arguments over whether wading was o.k. on a hot day and how deep do you get before you are swimming, which is definitely prohibited. I’ll never forget the trouble a bunch of us kids got into one hot day up in the foothills of the Sierras on a Sabbath hike (which is o.k.). Found a creek we had to cross. Took us over an hour to get across that darn creek and every one of us was wet up to our ears as it was a VERY deep creek (wink wink :newidea: ).

Rude and defensive? Some are, some aren’t. If you want to see rude and defensive, just go over to the RCC forum over on CARM! There’s some of the nastiest Catholic hating prots’ over there that I’ve ever seen!

 

[Australis]

Now maybe you can tell the truth about the other points you raised.

Like I said, this is what I found during *my own *investigation. btw are you the poster who asked for books and page numbers??? Come off it - it’s not like I sat down and wrote an essay with a reference list at the time. That’s just not my style :tanning:

 

[Protestant101]

Like I said, this is what I found during *my own *investigation. btw are you the poster who asked for books and page numbers??? Come off it - it’s not like I sat down and wrote an essay with a reference list at the time. That’s just not my style :tanning:

There’s nothing for me to come off of. If I was on this forum telling “lies” about Catholicism; I would be asked to clarify my position and provide references. Many times it is actually true, that Protestants don’t know what they are talking about when talking to or about Catholics. As an Adventist; I am trying to say that 90% of what you wrote about us is false. Now you are insisting it is not, and you can’t even prove why/ Maybe you should try to practice here what Catholics have told me many times to also do about Catholicism. Stop spreading lies about Adventists. It doesn’t matter what your “style” is, you are wrong in what you say and it’s not “rude” for an Adventist to be on this forum and question what you write. If that’s the best you can do is call us “rude” when we question you; then I will presume you have no proof for what you say.

And BTW; Many times Catholics have called me “antichrist,” “heretic,” etc. on this forum

 

[Australis]

There’s nothing for me to come off of. If I was on this forum telling “lies” about Catholicism; I would be asked to clarify my position and provide references. Many times it is actually true, that Protestants don’t know what they are talking about when talking to or about Catholics. As an Adventist; I am trying to say that 90% of what you wrote about us is false. Now you are insisting it is not, and you can’t even prove why/ Maybe you should try to practice here what Catholics have told me many times to also do about Catholicism. Stop spreading lies about Adventists. It doesn’t matter what your “style” is, you are wrong in what you say and it’s not “rude” for an Adventist to be on this forum and question what you write. If that’s the best you can do is call us “rude” when we question you; then I will presume you have no proof for what you say.

I can assure you I didn’t lie - that’s actually what I found when I considered joining the SDA’s. Instead of proving me wrong by showing where I might have gone wrong, you’re just calling me a liar and attacking my integrity. What gives?

 

[loneviking]

There’s nothing for me to come off of. If I was on this forum telling “lies” about Catholicism; I would be asked to clarify my position and provide references. Many times it is actually true, that Protestants don’t know what they are talking about when talking to or about Catholics. As an Adventist; I am trying to say that 90% of what you wrote about us is false. Now you are insisting it is not, and you can’t even prove why/ Maybe you should try to practice here what Catholics have told me many times to also do about Catholicism. Stop spreading lies about Adventists. It doesn’t matter what your “style” is, you are wrong in what you say and it’s not “rude” for an Adventist to be on this forum and question what you write. If that’s the best you can do is call us “rude” when we question you; then I will presume you have no proof for what you say.

And BTW; Many times Catholics have called me “antichrist,” “heretic,” etc. on this forum

90%? I’d like to see you prove that! I’m a former Adventist; 3rd generation on my mothers side; educated up to the college level in SDA schools; learned theology and SDA beliefs from ministers such as Ed Thiele; Des Ford; Morris Venden to name a few; was a local elder; I have friends that are SDA pastors; my wife is still SDA and is active in one of the local churches. I know for a fact that much of what was posted was accurate and you can’t prove otherwise!

I would guess you’re one of the liberal SDA’s that think you can take a ‘cafeteria’ approach to SDA beliefs. If so, you are about to be in for a rude awakening with the election of Wilson as GC President.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

JW’s and SDAs. SDAs weren’t always Trinitarians.

Oh yeah Javl you’re right, they do have very strong convictions about Saturday worship. They talk about it a lot & believe it’s a forever commandment.

Can’t believe I forgot that one!

Ex31
13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Isaiah24
5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jer31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isaiah66
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[Protestant101]

I can assure you I didn’t lie - that’s actually what I found when I considered joining the SDA’s. Instead of proving me wrong by showing where I might have gone wrong, you’re just calling me a liar and attacking my integrity. What gives?

I’m not attacking your integrity, and I’m not saying you are lying personally, just that the things you are saying, which you believe are not true; they are infact lies, yet you cannot provide proof for even one of them. That’s pretty simple. The rest is up to you. You will not be able to find in our official teachings what you have written.

BTW; I do not take it personally when Catholics here try to tell me that what I believe is “anti-christ” or that I am “anti-christ,” I take it simply as an attempt to clarify our respective beliefs. It has nothing to do with being a personal thing in most such cases. As far as I am concerned, people shoud be welcome to say such things, as long as we can still have tea together at the end of it all…Don’t get too upset over all this forum stuff! it’s not worth it.

 

[Australis]

BTW; I do not take it personally when Catholics here … It has nothing to do with being a personal thing in most such cases. …Don’t get too upset over all this forum stuff! it’s not worth it.

I’m not upset.

 

[Protestant101]

I’m not upset.

Good to hear…I see you were raised Presbyterian. I started out in The United Church; then in Adulthood until about 20 years ago; I was Presbyterian too. Even as an Adventist today, there are still things I like about that Church. God chose to introduce me to Jesus through the Adventist Church; and I am glad to say so; it is amazing how He has led me through some dark times

 

[Javl]

Good to hear…I see you were raised Presbyterian. I started out in The United Church; then in Adulthood until about 20 years ago; I was Presbyterian too. Even as an Adventist today, there are still things I like about that Church. God chose to introduce me to Jesus through the Adventist Church; and I am glad to say so; it is amazing how He has led me through some dark times

I’m happy for you that you’ve learned about Jesus and I praise the Lord. I believe that Adventism is just a stop for you on your way to the True Church instituted by Jesus and full knowledge and love of and for Him. That has been my experience, and that of many others. Have you truly looked into Catholicism, not only Roman Catholicism?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach Totus Tuus Domini

 

[me_again]

Short answer—No. They believe they are the one true church.

Long Answer—SDA’s believe the Catholic church is the great whore of Revelation, and all of the Protestant churches are daughters of the great whore who have fallen from true Christianity. Ellen White said that the name Seventh Day Adventist was to be a rebuke to other Christians, who had forgotten the seventh day sabbath and no longer looked for the soon return of Christ.

However, they believe that the Holy Spirit is still working within all the denominations and salvation is possible within these fallen churches UNTIL what is called ‘the close of probation’.

SDA’s believe there is coming a time in the very near future when God will call all true Christians into the SDA church; Sunday laws will be passed making Sunday worship mandatory with the penalty for violating these laws being death; the Holy Spirit will no longer work within these other denominations; God will no longer intercede in heaven and this will be where probation is closed as seen in Revelation where the text says 'let he that is clean remain clean and he that is filthy, let him remain filthy. At that point, all true Christians are in the SDA church or hold the same beliefs, no changing of beliefs is possible and Christ returns.

Confused? I don’t blame you…

Thank you very much for this accurate description of SDA beliefs. It is accurate.

 

[me_again]

Ex31
13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Isaiah24
5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jer31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isaiah66
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Ahhhh the ole “cut-n-paste” game, eh?

Ah ite!

Heb. 13
8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

10We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

11For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

16But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

 

[benidict]

Ex31
13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Isaiah24
5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jer31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isaiah66
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

yes, i agree whole heartedly my friend. but again, this was written to the physical nation of israel. even Paul differentiates when he states what advantage hath a Jew? much. to them has been given the oracles of God. etc. etc. you are a gentile. the apostles were very specific, what we were supposed to follow in acts. this has been gone over many times. if you wish to keep part of the law, you in fact, are required to keep all of the law. including the cerimonial, and the the laws on wearing two types of fabrics together. all of it. not just the 10. so if thats the route you wish to go. by all means. as for me, i will follow the teachings of the apostles on this matter. we were not called to bondage, but to freedom. the law of love. you are attempting to follow something that was not meant for you. sorry ive been away so long, had to travel to a very hot place. and the Adventist are quite wrong… there is a hell! im just north of it. and man is it hot hot hot! good to see ya again. Peace

 

[CatholicLover]

The Trinity doctrine was officially adopted as a statement of belief in 1933.

I’m not sure if that’s the exact date that it was officially adopted, sounds about right though. It’s important to understand that Adventism wasn’t officially formed until 1860. The church was pulling in believers from all sorts of other denominations, many of which were strongly anti-trinity. The church was still forming it’s core beliefs. Ellen White however was always a believer in the Trinity and wrote convincingly on the subject.

Wrath of God on those who don’t believe in soul sleep? That’s a new one for me, but you can hear all sorts of strange opinions from the far right side of the church.

I’ve never heard this either. It’s possible that there are some who believe it but it’s not taught by the Adventist Church.

E.G. White is ‘a continuing and authoritative’ source. Oddly, they don’t believe that she is infallible nor do they believe that the Bible is infallible! They believe in ‘thought inspiration’ where only the ‘thoughts’ were given to the prophets who then figured out how to express those thoughts. That results in SDA’s doing a lot of ‘well, that’s what the text says but here’s what it really means’.

I’ve never encountered any Adventist that believed the Bible is not infallible. I’ve always been taught and believed that the Bible is the inspired word of God and therefore absolutely correct. The only possible error is interpretation without the aid of the Holy Spirit. There are some who don’t believe Ellen White is infallible though and I don’t necessarily have a problem with that belief. I’ve never seen her proven wrong but if she were it would not change my beliefs. Adventist belief is based on the Bible, not Ellen White.

Vegetarianism is emphasized and encouraged but carnivores aren’t excommunicated. For an SDA truly following EG White the list of prohbited foods is very long. Caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, vinegar, pepper, mustard, milk and sugar together…to name just a few.

This is true. It’s a long list and all have been proven to be bad for your health in some way.

Plain dress? For the conservatives in the church, but there’s plenty of moderates and liberals that don’t agree.

This is true although plain dress is a relative term. What is considered plain dress today would not have been considered plain at all when Adventism first began. Most Adventist wear either a suit and tie (for men) or conservative dress (for women) to church.

Wedding rings are now officially O.K…well, at least at the denominational level. Lots of conservative SDA’s still won’t wear them.

I wear a wedding ring although I know some Adventists who don’t.

Bible studies and church take up have the day? Hmmm, not any more so than my Lutheran service does.

Our church service is certainly longer than the Catholic service and the length varies from church to church. It’s no longer than other protestant denominations and far shorter than some.

Yes, they do stress over what their children do on the Sabbath day----can’t have them out having fun. Oh gosh, the arguments over whether wading was o.k. on a hot day and how deep do you get before you are swimming, which is definitely prohibited. I’ll never forget the trouble a bunch of us kids got into one hot day up in the foothills of the Sierras on a Sabbath hike (which is o.k.). Found a creek we had to cross. Took us over an hour to get across that darn creek and every one of us was wet up to our ears as it was a VERY deep creek (wink wink :newidea: ).

haha, yes, I think I’ve encountered many of those creeks myself. It’s not that we can’t have fun, it’s that the activity you are having fun doing must glorify God in some way.

Rude and defensive? Some are, some aren’t. If you want to see rude and defensive, just go over to the RCC forum over on CARM! There’s some of the nastiest Catholic hating prots’ over there that I’ve ever seen!

I think you will find rude and defensive people wherever you go.