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Elf01
Guest
Have I done that?
So you would have no issue with a woman having an abortion because the baby was not the sex she wanted?
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Brendan_64
Guest
And if any political party in the North of Ireland will stand firm against abortion there it will be the Protestant DUP.Politicians in the Republic of Ireland and in parts of the UK outside of Northern Ireland are now putting pressure on the Protestant Ulster Unionist politicians for them to bring Northern Irish abortion laws into line with the rest of the UK .
Sinn Fein want legalisation of abortion and I think the SDLP are supposedly pro-life, but much less vocal than the DUP. I can just imagine the sermons in Ian Paisley’s old Free Presbyterian church. The ministers there would be likely delivering full on fire and brimstone sermons leaving their congregations in no doubt how the should be voting. I doubt if many of their congregation would vote to legalise abortion after that.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
Nice try. Not going to get into an abortion debate with you here. It isn’t my purpose in posting.
You may not have called anyone anything. Many, many posters here have. I understand how they feel about it, but it is usually the same group of folks who criticize others for bringing emotion to the table.
Again, my point is that we should all work harder to presume positive intent in others. We can disagree. We can argue and debate over what qualifies as a human being/ person/ soul…whatever one wants to call it. But we should always be respectful and try to understand where the other is coming from. It is hard to do, I know. It takes patience and practice. But again, the dynamic of negative presumption usually leads no place good.
You may not have called anyone anything. Many, many posters here have. I understand how they feel about it, but it is usually the same group of folks who criticize others for bringing emotion to the table.
Again, my point is that we should all work harder to presume positive intent in others. We can disagree. We can argue and debate over what qualifies as a human being/ person/ soul…whatever one wants to call it. But we should always be respectful and try to understand where the other is coming from. It is hard to do, I know. It takes patience and practice. But again, the dynamic of negative presumption usually leads no place good.
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IsaiahSpirit
Guest
May the following Holy Spirit inspired address, and what it contains
be promulgated to the farthest reaches of The Church.
God can bring good out of anything. Maybe this will be a wake-up call.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000214_acd-life.html
be promulgated to the farthest reaches of The Church.
God can bring good out of anything. Maybe this will be a wake-up call.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000214_acd-life.html
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Peebo
Guest
Bradskii4h
The really scary thing is seeing people who call themselves Catholics…CHEERING the result…surely they must be under the influence of Satan to cheer the murder of innocent babies in their mothers wombs
Just understand, because it’s obvious you don’t, that nobody cheers when an abortion is carried out. Nobody would want to have an abortion. Nobody is pro abortion. They are pro choice.
People either seem to not know the difference or deliberately want to misrepresent the issue.
They ARE cheering the result…the result which gives a woman the right to “terminate” a life growing within her…if nobody is “pro abortion”…then there would be no abortion…claiming it is pro “choice” is just a gobbledygook way to cover up what is really happening…the killing of a human being.
The really scary thing is seeing people who call themselves Catholics…CHEERING the result…surely they must be under the influence of Satan to cheer the murder of innocent babies in their mothers wombs
Just understand, because it’s obvious you don’t, that nobody cheers when an abortion is carried out. Nobody would want to have an abortion. Nobody is pro abortion. They are pro choice.
People either seem to not know the difference or deliberately want to misrepresent the issue.
They ARE cheering the result…the result which gives a woman the right to “terminate” a life growing within her…if nobody is “pro abortion”…then there would be no abortion…claiming it is pro “choice” is just a gobbledygook way to cover up what is really happening…the killing of a human being.
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JoyToTheWhirled
Guest
You have posted this same point elsewhere, and, while I am coming at it from the pro life position, I do completely agree. One of my main points in debate about this is to focus on the humanity of the unborn, because that really is the crux of it.
I have had so many conversations with angry fellow pro lifers who insist on the harshest of language to address women considering abortion, or post-abortive women, and who don’t seem to understand that these women most often have no concept of the unborn as actual people. The most successful argument of the pro choice side is the dehumanisation of preborn children.
That is ultimately where the impasse is, and all the angry invective against murder will make an individual prolifer feel better for a moment, but it won’t touch the heart of a woman who genuinely believes she just had a clump of cells flushed away.
I have had so many conversations with angry fellow pro lifers who insist on the harshest of language to address women considering abortion, or post-abortive women, and who don’t seem to understand that these women most often have no concept of the unborn as actual people. The most successful argument of the pro choice side is the dehumanisation of preborn children.
That is ultimately where the impasse is, and all the angry invective against murder will make an individual prolifer feel better for a moment, but it won’t touch the heart of a woman who genuinely believes she just had a clump of cells flushed away.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
I have never cross-posted before. Now that I think about it, I hope that wasn’t against the rules.
The only reason I did it is because that is just how important I think the concept is. Thank you for sharing that you get it, too. It is a simple concept, but I think there is so much emotion around this issue that so much damage is done by not listening, learning, and understanding the other side’s “walk”.
I appreciate that you took the time to reply and share your experience.
The only reason I did it is because that is just how important I think the concept is. Thank you for sharing that you get it, too. It is a simple concept, but I think there is so much emotion around this issue that so much damage is done by not listening, learning, and understanding the other side’s “walk”.
I appreciate that you took the time to reply and share your experience.
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glencor63
Guest
You are correct. Most Americans are not Pro-life. They are varying degrees of Pro-choice. Most people, my relatives for example believe abortion should be legal, safe, and rare. For them legal abortion is a necessary evil.
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Brendan_64
Guest
The scenes of jubilation were quite upsetting, I thought.The really scary thing is seeing people who call themselves Catholics…CHEERING the result…surely they must be under the influence of Satan to cheer the murder of innocent babies in their mothers wombs
I do find it hard to get my head around how any mother could support abortion. When did they start loving their child? When their child was in their womb, did they think of it as not being a baby? I doubt that. How can a mother look at her own children and think, “I should have had the right to abort you, if I had wanted to, when you were in my womb”?
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QwertyGirl
Guest
I am assuming you are a man. That may be why you can’t imagine these things.
I can tell you, when I was pregnant with my child, she was a planned and wanted pregnancy. However, I really had no attachment to her, emotionally speaking, until I was mid-pregnancy and knew her gender. I found it odd, myself, but then I investigated. I found a lot of my friends experienced the same phenomenon. I think maybe it is mother nature’s way of not letting you get too close in case the baby is miscarried. I base that on nothing but my own conjecture, though.
And I am sure there are many, many women who feel the baby in their arms the second they know they are pregnant. That is normal, too.
I can tell you, the experience isn’t the same for everyone. That is for sure.
I can tell you, when I was pregnant with my child, she was a planned and wanted pregnancy. However, I really had no attachment to her, emotionally speaking, until I was mid-pregnancy and knew her gender. I found it odd, myself, but then I investigated. I found a lot of my friends experienced the same phenomenon. I think maybe it is mother nature’s way of not letting you get too close in case the baby is miscarried. I base that on nothing but my own conjecture, though.
And I am sure there are many, many women who feel the baby in their arms the second they know they are pregnant. That is normal, too.
I can tell you, the experience isn’t the same for everyone. That is for sure.
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JoyToTheWhirled
Guest
But that is just it. Many women did think it wasn’t a baby. There are a million voices out there saying ‘clump of cells’ and ‘potential human’ and when you are scared because of all the possible consequences of giving birth, you will listen to the soothing siren voices that tell you there is a quick and easy answer and no one is harmed in the process.
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brian_custer
Guest
the hard core pro-abortionists definitely believe in murder of children from the moment of conception up to & beyond the moment of birth
on holy trinity sunday ireland has embraced the “secular trinity”
abortion on demand, global warming & one-world government
ireland has surrendered her god-given freedom on the “altar” of secularism
on holy trinity sunday ireland has embraced the “secular trinity”
abortion on demand, global warming & one-world government
ireland has surrendered her god-given freedom on the “altar” of secularism
I think a greater emphasis must be made to people that it’s not only a religious belief that a fetus is a human life but it is also fundamental settled science. There’s a huge amount of ignorance about basic human biology in today’s society, and about where human life actually begins: at fertilization/conception.Perhaps we need to change our approach to the abortion issue. .
Once people fully understand that a fetus is a fully human being (even though in its very early development stage), then they will be more readily to accept the moral doctrine and the imperative of protecting that life.
Right now, many people believe ignorantly that a fetus is still part of a woman’s body even though the fetus’ tissue doesn’t not even share the same DNA as its mother tissue. Until such ignorance is eradicated, it will be an uphill battle protecting the life of the unborn.
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brian_custer
Guest
nice job peter t, well said
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QwertyGirl
Guest
Ensoulment is also a big issue. We don’t have a protein test to tell us when a soul enters a human body. Lots of different ideas are out there on this one. I don’t know that it will ever really come down entirely to science, for those who are prochoice.
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
If you understand the hugely liberatory effects of abortion on women then it’s important to support universal access to it. Abortion basically frees women from the womb, and makes real the possibility of a society based on free union where women are socially and economically independent from men. The Diggers had toyed with the idea of some form of free union in the 1600s, but Gerrard Winstanley rejected it on the basis that it could only amount to free union for men. Access to abortion and birth control essentially overcomes this problem. Abortion is an issue of bodily autonomy, but it has even greater implications for the autonomy of women beyond this.
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OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
That’s not a good reason and sounds really selfish.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Yes. In a world full of atheists, there is a logical case to make that:I think a greater emphasis must be made to people that it’s not only a religious belief that a fetus is a human life but it is also fundamental settled science.
a. It is scientific fact that human life begins at conception.
b. The deliberate taking of innocent human life is murder.
It is a fairly straightford argument, if we have our scientific evidence solid for the first point.
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ATraveller
Guest
Like most people, most atheists aren’t logical either.logical case
And on the issue of abortion, the focus is on selfish desires and radical individualism. Human status is conferred to the unborn when he or she isn’t a problem or inconvennience.
Worth thinking about:
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heidi_storage
Guest
And prochoicers believe that prolifers are trying to punish women for having sex.
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