Is Darwin's Theory Of Evolution True?

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Techno2000 said:
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rossum:
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Techno2000:
How do you know this , can you give an example of such animals ?
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Dodos. Mammoths. Passenger pigeons.

rossum
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So these were just flawed creatures that random mutations produced for trial and error purposes ?
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They weren’t so flawed when they emerged, but became more so when the environment changed around them. And it doesn’t make sense to speak of “purposes” with regard to random mutations.
 
Techno2000 said:
How do you know it was because they weren’t good at survival ?
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Because if they were then they would have survived. Was that really so difficult?

They were suited to their original environments, but the environments changed too fast for them to adapt. For dodos it was rats off ships that ate their eggs. For mammoths it was temperature increase. For passenger pigeons it was a new efficient predator: humans.

rossum
 
Techno2000 said:
So these were just flawed creatures that random mutations produced for trial and error purposes ?
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No. They were all well adapted to their original environments by natural selection. A population of about three billion for passenger pigeons is hardly indicative of a failure.

rossum
 
One cannot criticize a particular design unless one talks to the designer and understands the full purpose. A while ago they criticized the design of the eye the same way. Until they found reasons for it and are now awestruck.
 
Pope Pius XII taught in his encyclical that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God
 
Figuratively, not necessarily literally as the Catechism teaches, "The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. " (CCC 390).
 
buffalo said:
One cannot criticize a particular design unless one talks to the designer and understands the full purpose. A while ago they criticized the design of the eye the same way. Until they found reasons for it and are now awestruck.
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Well, when someone finds a very good reason why it is better to leave a hole in the abdominal wall and be vulnerable to hernias, maybe then I will be awestruck too. But until then, it looks like an imperfect design to me.
 
Here is a name and address

Joseph Smith
1234 3rd Street
Mesa, CA

We have information that we can go to his house and meet him

Let’s add a letter by mutation. (we have added information)

Joseph Smithy

We can go to his house but we will not meet Joseph Smithy.

Here we see a mutation that results in an inability to meet Joseph Smithy.

Mutations result in loss of function or ability. They limit or lose a prior expression.

If we add a number to the address the same thing will happen. We go to the house number 12345 but no one named Joseph Smith is there.
 
buffalo said:
Here is a name and address

Joseph Smith
1234 3rd Street
Mesa, CA

We have information that we can go to his house and meet him

Let’s add a letter by mutation. (we have added information)

Joseph Smithy

We can go to his house but we will not meet Joseph Smithy.

Here we see a mutation that results in an inability to meet Joseph Smithy.

Mutations result in loss of function or ability. They limit or lose a prior expression.

If we add a number to the address the same thing will happen. We go to the house number 12345 but no one named Joseph Smith is there.
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This would be a better analogy if we went to house number 12345 and met someone even better than Joe. That is possible.
 
I design an amplifier with lots of noise. The observation of design is still there.
 
buffalo said:
I want to find Joseph Smith.
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That’s the trouble with your analogy. You have set out an arbitrary goal - to find Joseph Smith. But evolution does not work that way. It does not start out saying “I want to make a longer neck to I can reach more leaves.” Maybe a shorter neck is better. Evolution doesn’t know ahead of time what it is trying to make. So when evolution finds a better friend at 12345 than Joseph Smith, it goes with it.
 
buffalo said:
I design an amplifier with lots of noise. The observation of design is still there.
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That’s only because I recognize the design as similar to other things I have seen before. But if you showed a microchip to a primitive man, he would not recognize it as something people might have designed, but as just an interesting tiny rock. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in intelligent design. I believe God is that designer. I just don’t think his design process is anywhere near accessible to mere humans. And for whatever reason, He seems to have decided to execute his design in such a manner that is consistent with the laws of nature - which, by the way, He designed too.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
He seems to have decided to execute his design in such a manner that is consistent with the laws of nature - which, by the way, He designed too.
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My point exactly, thank you @LeafByNiggle ! Forcing God to only work miracles to create Adam and Eve ignores the beauty and design of nature. God normally works through nature, rarely through miracles. It is more reasonable and easier to imagine evolution than to imagine clay suddenly becoming all the compounds and elements a human body contains. Even the Eucharist doesn’t do that.
 
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