Is it okay for Catholics to own firearms so they can protect themselves and their loved ones?
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
St Peter was only carrying a sword for self defence. But the moment he took the sword out to cut of the ear, was the time that Jesus said, those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
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LilyM
Guest
Are you saying that we have a God-given right to indiscriminate ownership of guns? Or other weapons? Jesus (on one occasion) told the Apostles to buy swords, true, but that one- off doesn’t imply Divine bestowal of any sort of universal right.
And the one time that any of said swords was actually used - by Peter - Jesus told him to stop. Which doesn’t really jibe with the idea of some sort of Divinely-granted universal right of self-defense, at least not unless we are at the same time directly or indirectly protecting other’s.
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Cruciferi
Guest
“Everyone has the right to defend his life against the attacks of an unjust aggressor”
Yes, Catholics have the right to self defense against unjust aggression. We are NOT Pacifists.
Yes, Catholics have the right to self defense against unjust aggression. We are NOT Pacifists.
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ascetic
Guest
You can’t get a more catholic perspective than:
[2264] Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.
[2265] Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.
[2264] Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.
[2265] Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.
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RuthAnne
Guest
Yes, of course.
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ELCore
Guest
No. The text you quoted was text I had quoted. I’m sorry if that isn’t clear in the original.
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prayerrider
Guest
If I die defending my own life or that of an innocent, so be it.
Anyway if Jesus forbids armed self defense in that verse, then the Catechism is wrong. But it ain’t.
Nuff said.
Anyway if Jesus forbids armed self defense in that verse, then the Catechism is wrong. But it ain’t.
Nuff said.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
Do you have to defend people by using a gun?
Some years ago a friend of a church minister was shot and killed by a gang of youths in Jamaica. After the funeral, the minister and a few parishioners got together and prayed for these gangs. Then these unarmed church goers went out to search for these gangs and ask, what can we do to help you?
Over time they started to make a difference, the idea of Street Pastors came about from these early encounters. I have been a Street Pastor for eleven years and have confronted a lot of drunk angry violence. I have asked two people to hand me their knives, which they did.
This works with the power of prayer and trust in our Lord.
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RuthAnne
Guest
No you don’t have to. But it works a lot better than a club or a knife.
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Ender
Guest
Whether or not it is an indiscriminate right, it is surely not prohibited by anything the church teaches.
I answer that I deny the consequent, for if there is no law commanding or prohibiting something for everybody, many actions which are evil in one man will not be evil in others. For example, if there be no law prohibiting the carrying of weapons, the carrying of weapons will be evil for him who is easily provoked to anger, and who has enemies whom he desires to kill; but it will not be evil for a peaceable man, who only desires to defend himself; yet, if the law forbids it, then it is evil for all, for the law should not consider what is good or evil for this one or that one, but what will profit or harm the State. (St Bellarmine, De Laicis, ch 11)
And as for “All that take the sword shall perish with the sword,” these words cannot be rightly understood except in this sense: Every one who commits an unjust murder ought in turn to be condemned to death by the magistrate. For Our Lord rebuked Peter not because a just defense is unlawful, but because he wished not so much to defend himself or Our Lord, as to avenge the injury done to Our Lord, although he himself had no official authority, as St. Augustine correctly explains… (Ibid ch 13)
ralfyman
New member
Please see the section on legitimate defense in the Catechism.
po18guy
Well-known member
- Those who arm themselves are NOT “living by the weapon” Those who take the weapon and use it in acts of aggression are living by the sword. Does no one see this anymore?
We are having the WRONG conversation here. WE are not the problem. The increasing number among us with homicidal intent ARE the problem. Let’s talk about that for a breath of fresh air!
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Saint_Prince_Caspian
Guest
If the Church is against firearms, She might as well be against the plainsmen, the Indians and tribes of Old, it’s wrong to hunt. Because, you have to use arms for that. King David had a slingshot. And a sword. And took down Goliath.
In truth, the Church upholds the marvel of things that one can hunt and gather food by them. But, if it is to harm men. The Church would like to see a world without sin first. And that is through the merits of Christ’ suffering. Hence, the Church is not against firearms per-say. But against the fashioned weapons for sinful will. Yet, that does not mean She is against them, even in a world of sin, when your neighbor were to take your life. You have the right to defend yourself as Saint Maria Goretti fought back the man who was going to sexually abuse her. She did not have a firearm. But yet, she would have every right to one. She was a poor peasant girl. And when you have a poor vulnerable peasant girl. You then lend to very predatorial persons play their gain. Wicked and evil gain.
The problem is that criminals have firearms, not poor peasant girls to protect themselves from these predators. At least in our time.
What to do? Oh that’s right. Back to you question: Is it okay for Catholics to own firearms so they protect themselves and their loved ones? Yes.
In truth, the Church upholds the marvel of things that one can hunt and gather food by them. But, if it is to harm men. The Church would like to see a world without sin first. And that is through the merits of Christ’ suffering. Hence, the Church is not against firearms per-say. But against the fashioned weapons for sinful will. Yet, that does not mean She is against them, even in a world of sin, when your neighbor were to take your life. You have the right to defend yourself as Saint Maria Goretti fought back the man who was going to sexually abuse her. She did not have a firearm. But yet, she would have every right to one. She was a poor peasant girl. And when you have a poor vulnerable peasant girl. You then lend to very predatorial persons play their gain. Wicked and evil gain.
The problem is that criminals have firearms, not poor peasant girls to protect themselves from these predators. At least in our time.
What to do? Oh that’s right. Back to you question: Is it okay for Catholics to own firearms so they protect themselves and their loved ones? Yes.
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TheNoseKnows
Guest
I’d rather not test God, if someone kicks in my door they’ll receive the power of 9mm.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
We go out in our weakness with the Street Pastor teams, so we pray for the wisdom and the peace to do God’s will. We confronted a group of lads, one of them was carrying a knife, we had a long talk about temptation and the dangers of using a knife. We said you have to hand us the knife, you cannot walk away with it, because it will become too much of a temptation for you to use. After a long conversation, the lad gave us his knife.
It can be a risk searching for the good in all people, but we do not want to see young lads ruin their lives by using a knife in anger.
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tgGodsway
Guest
Right on! Me too!
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RuthAnne
Guest
I’m confident that my 9mm Sig will slow them down. I hope to never use it but I sleep well knowing it’s there if we ever need it.
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Cruciferi
Guest
I don’t know where you’re from but there’s nothing morally wrong with possessing a knife. It’s a tool
Now, whether or not it’s against the law is another matter.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
The knife was being carried as a weapon. Knife crime is prevalent in the Uk.I don’t know where you’re from but there’s nothing morally wrong with possessing a knife. It’s a tool
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