Is Jesus God?

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]dj dave;

it is talking about any future life that the person could have is in God’s hands
…it is up to the judgment of God and his Son as to whether or not the person is worthy of a resurrection.
Conclusion coming up[/SIGN]

There are scores of texts in the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures that speak of the ne′phesh or psy•khe′ (soul) as mortal and subject to death (Ge 19:19, 20; Nu 23:10; Jos 2:13, 14; Jg 5:18; 16:16, 30; 1Ki 20:31, 32; Ps 22:29; Eze 18:4, 20; Mt 2:20; 26:38; Mr 3:4; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20); as dying, being “cut off” or destroyed (Ge 17:14; Ex 12:15; Le 7:20; 23:29; Jos 10:28-39; Ps 78:50; Eze 13:19; 22:27; Ac 3:23; Re 8:9; 16:3), whether by sword (Jos 10:37; Eze 33:6) or by suffocation (Job 7:15), or being in danger of death due to drowning (Jon 2:5); and also as going down into the pit or into Sheol (Job 33:22; Ps 89:48) or being delivered therefrom (Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; Pr 23:14).

Thus when Rachel was giving birth to Benjamin, her ne′phesh (“soul,” or life as a creature) went out from her and she died. (Ge 35:16-19) She ceased to be a living creature. Similarly, when the prophet Elijah performed a miracle regarding the dead son of the widow of Zarephath, the child’s ne′phesh (“soul,” or life as a creature) came back into him and “he came to life,” was again a living creature.—1Ki 17:17-23.

Because the creature’s life is so inseparably connected with and dependent on blood (shed blood standing for the life of the person or creature [Ge 4:10; 2Ki 9:26; Ps 9:12; Isa 26:21]), the Scriptures speak of the ne′phesh (soul) as being “in the blood.” (Ge 9:4; Le 17:11, 14; De 12:23) This is, obviously, not meant literally, inasmuch as the Scriptures also speak of the “blood of your souls” (Ge 9:5; compare Jer 2:34) and the many references already considered could not reasonably be applied solely to the blood or its life-supporting qualities.

Ne′phesh (soul) is not used with reference to the creation of vegetable life on the third creative “day” (Ge 1:11-13) or thereafter, since vegetation is bloodless.

Examples of the use of the Greek psy•khe′ to mean “life as a creature” may be found at Matthew 6:25; 10:39; 16:25, 26; Luke 12:20; John 10:11, 15; 13:37, 38; 15:13; Acts 20:10. Since God’s servants have the hope of a resurrection in the event of death, they have the hope of living again as “souls,” or living creatures. For that reason Jesus could say that “whoever loses his soul [his life as a creature] for the sake of me and the good news will save it. Really, of what benefit is it for a man to gain the whole world and to forfeit his soul? What, really, would a man give in exchange for his soul?” (Mr 8:35-37) Similarly, he stated: “He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life.” (Joh 12:25)

AGAIN These texts, and others like them, show the correct understanding of Jesus’ words at Matthew 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” While men can kill the body, they cannot kill the person for all time, inasmuch as he lives in God’s purpose (compare Lu 20:37, 38) and God can and will restore such faithful one to life as a creature by means of a resurrection. For God’s servants, the loss of their “soul,” or life as a creature, is only temporary, not permanent.—Compare Re 12:11.

IT WAS SATAN THAT SAID "(Genesis 3:4) …“YOU positively will not die.

Whereas it was God that said "(Genesis 3:19) …In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Doesn’t it seem strange that WE do not take all of those scriptures you have cited in your last 4 posts, as you do, at ‘face value’? I know there are a lot of things that you could follow up with. But it really doesn’t matter. I KNOW you cannot have the understanding WE have without studying with us.

As I stated at the outset, I will say this jlhargus, things are not as they seem when you read the Bible on the surface

Let me give you just one more small example:

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]dj dave;
As I stated at the outset, ]I will say this jlhargus, things are not as they seem when you read the Bible on the surface

Let me give you just one more small example:[/SIGN]

The following is just an excerpt of one of our books…respectfully, see if you can even begin to follow the reasoning…

Isaiah 52:1-12

LIBERATION! Can there be a more joyful prospect for a captive people? Since a major theme in the book of Isaiah is liberation and restoration, it is not surprising that aside from the Psalms, this Bible book contains more expressions of joy than any other. Isaiah chapter 52 especially gives reason for God’s people to rejoice. Its prophetic words are fulfilled upon Jerusalem in 537*B.C.E. And they have a greater fulfillment involving “Jerusalem above,” Jehovah’s heavenly organization of spirit creatures, which is sometimes described as a mother and a wife.—Galatians 4:26; Revelation 12:1.
**
“Put On Your Strength, O Zion!”**

2 Jehovah, through Isaiah, calls out to His beloved city, Zion: “Wake up, wake up, put on your strength, OZion! Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city! For no more will there come again into you the uncircumcised and unclean one. Shake yourself free from the dust, rise up, take a seat, O Jerusalem. Loosen for yourself the bands on your neck, O captive daughter of Zion*.” (Isaiah 52:1, 2) Because her inhabitants have provoked Jehovah’s anger, Jerusalem has lain desolate for 70 years. (2*Kings 24:4; 2 Chronicles 36:15-21; Jeremiah 25:8-11; Daniel 9:2) Now it is time for her to wake up from her long period of inactivity and don the beautiful garments of liberty. Jehovah has moved the heart of Cyrus to free the “captive daughter of Zion” so that the former inhabitants of Jerusalem and their offspring can leave Babylon, return to Jerusalem, and restore true worship. No uncircumcised and unclean ones must be found in Jerusalem.—Ezra 1:1-4.

3 These words of Isaiah also have a fulfillment on the Christian congregation. The congregation of anointed Christians can be described as the modern-day “daughter of Zion,” since “Jerusalem above” is their mother. Set free from pagan teachings and apostate doctrines, the anointed must maintain a clean standing before Jehovah, no, not by being circumcised in the flesh, but by being circumcised in their hearts. (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 2:25-29) This includes maintaining spiritual, mental, and moral cleanness before Jehovah.—1*Corinthians 7:19; Ephesians 2:3.

4 True, “Jerusalem above” has never disobeyed Jehovah. During the first world war, however, her representatives on earth—anointed Christians—unwittingly broke Jehovah’s law because they did not properly understand true Christian neutrality. Losing divine favor, they came into spiritual captivity to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 17:5) Their condition of being in slavery climaxed in June 1918 when eight staff members of the Watch Tower Society were imprisoned on false charges, including conspiracy. At that point the organized preaching of the good news virtually stopped. In 1919, however, a clarion call to spiritual wakefulness was sounded forth. Anointed Christians began to separate themselves more completely from the moral and spiritual uncleanness of Babylon the Great. They rose from the dust of captivity, and “Jerusalem above” came to have the splendor of a “holy city” where spiritual uncleanness is not allowed.

5 Both in 537 B.C.E. and in 1919 C.E., Jehovah had a perfect right to liberate his people. Isaiah explains: “This is what Jehovah has said: ‘It was for nothing that you people were sold, and it will be without money that you will be repurchased.’” (Isaiah 52:3) Neither ancient Babylon nor Babylon the Great paid anything when they took possession of God’s covenant people as slaves. Since no transaction involving money took place, Jehovah was still the legal Owner of his people. Should he have felt indebted to anybody? Of course not. In both cases, Jehovah could rightly repurchase his worshipers without giving any compensation to their captors.—Isaiah 45:13.

Jehovah’s enemies had not learned any lessons from history. We read: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: ‘It was to Egypt that my people went down in the first instance to reside there as aliens; and without cause Assyria, for its part, oppressed them.’” (Isaiah 52:4) Pharaoh of Egypt enslaved the Israelites, who had been invited to his land to reside as guests. But Jehovah drowned Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea. (Exodus 1:11-14; 14:27, 28) When King Sennacherib of Assyria threatened Jerusalem, Jehovah’s angel struck down 185,000 of the king’s soldiers. (Isaiah 37:33-37) Similarly, neither ancient Babylon nor Babylon the Great can escape the consequences of oppressing God’s people.

“My People Will Know My Name”

7 The captive condition of Jehovah’s people has an effect on his name, as the prophecy shows: “‘Now, what interest do I have here?’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘***For my people were taken for nothing. The very ones ruling over them kept howling,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘and constantly, all day long, my name was being treated with disrespect. For that reason my people will know my name, even for that reason in that day, because I am the One that is speaking. Look! It is I.’” (***Isaiah 52:5, 6) What interest does Jehovah have in the situation? What concern of his is it that Israel is enslaved in Babylon? Jehovah must act because Babylon has taken his people captive and has howled over them in triumph. Such bragging has led to Babylon’s treating Jehovah’s name disrespectfully. (Ezekiel 36:20, 21)

I do not expect you to understand this or even enjoy it. Remember it is just an excerpt. Imagine what you are missing in all the other verses and chapters.

 

[jlhargus]

[SIGN]jlhargus;

JL: I pray God will give you understanding and a desire to know and search out the truth of your LORD and SAVIOR, who desires ALL men be SAVED.[/SIGN]

I will say this jlhargus, things are not as they seem when you read the Bible on the surface

(Luke 10:21-22) 21 *In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones, *and have revealed them to babes. Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you. 22 All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one [knows] but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.”

CONTINUED:

JL: Yes there are many things in the bible hard to understand, that’s why Christ gave us the Church the pillar and ground of truth, to teach the truth till the end. However there are no secret hidden meanings in the bible that only the WT can reveal as you seem to imply.

Anyone reading the NT can know Christ their savior and see plainly the WT teachings aren’t found there. We have been discussing the 144 thousand and you have yet to produce ANY evidence from ANY WT 1000’s of articles that has ANY scriptural evidence. The 144 thousand so called spirit class is an invention by Rutherford in 1935. Yet the WT has NO SCRIPTUAL OR historic evidence for 1935 or the 144 thousand so called spirit class. Read the NT Dj you will not find WT teachings there, but you’ll fined the love of God as revealed by our Lord and God Jesus Christ our Savior.

Who are the wise and learned from whom these things are hidden? The priests, Pharisees and the civil rulers, those who are well educated. Who are the babes to whom these things have been revealed? Christ’s disciples, those without education, who proclaim it openly. It is the Son who reveals these things to whom HE has chosen.

We understand the Bible on a different plane than anyone else. I don’t expect for you to believe that BUT MY OFFER OF PROOF is found in this one example

(Matthew 10:27-28) …What I tell YOU in the darkness, say in the light; and what YOU hear whispered, preach from the housetops. 28And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body* in Ge·hen’na.

JL: Well with your proof text, and implied interprtation, you have certainly proved your point the WT understands the bible on a different plane than anyone else. Oh yes I do believe the WT understands the bible on a different plane, that’s for sure. A much lower plane, than ANYONE ELSE, which comes from total darkness. JW’s understanding of the bible is skewed by the WT, who even changes the scriptures to match it’s own invented traditions of men.

Tell me between bodily death and the resurrection of the body. Where does that living soul that cannot be killed by MAN, go when the body is killed?

if people study with the Jehovah’s Witnesses they will learn beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ‘soul’ is not what every other religion teaches it is.

JL: If people study with the JWs THEY WILL ALSO LEARN beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ‘soul’ IS NOT what SCRIPTURE teaches IT IS, but what those 1000’s of WT articles and books say it is. I’ll stay with the truth not fables.

For example: Hinduism teaches that man undergoes a series of rebirths, or reincarnations. For this to be true, man must have a soul that lives on after death. The Hindu holy book Bhagavad Gita states: “That which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul.”

Buddhism differs from Hinduism in that it denies the existence of an immortal soul. Nevertheless, today many Buddhists in the Far East believe in the transmigration of an immortal soul.

Many nominal Christians believe that after death, people go either to heaven or to hell. According to Islamic belief, there will be a day of judgment after death, when Allah will assess each one’s life course and consign each person to paradise or to hellfire. In some lands, beliefs regarding the dead are a curious blend of local tradition and nominal Christianity. In Sri Lanka, for example, both Buddhists and Catholics leave the doors and windows wide open when a death occurs in their household, and they place the casket with the feet of the deceased facing the front door. They believe that these measures facilitate the exit of the spirit, or soul, of the deceased. Among many Catholics and Protestants in West Africa, it is customary to cover mirrors when someone dies so that no one might look and see the dead person’s spirit. Then, 40 days later, family and friends celebrate the soul’s ascension to heaven.

JL: As far as Hinduism and other religions and similarities, it has NO bearing on what the Church AND scripture teaches. There is no problem with Sri Lankain Catholics using cultural customs that are not contrary to the faith. Buddhists may believe these measures facilitate the exit of the soul, Catholics do NOT. I remember reading some years ago, in a WT magazine, that in India JW women wear the red dot on the forehead, because it is a cultural custom.

The WT mention of similarities in religions is of NO consequence. It is nothing more than WT blowing smoke in YOUR FACE to divert YOUR attention from the clear teaching of SCRIPTURE, MAN is BOTH body AND soul, and the SOUL does NOT DIE, as Christ CLEARLY tells us in [Mt10:28 And fear not them which KILL THE BODY, but are NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.]

 

[jlhargus]

The word soul is in the Bible over 800 times but because so many Bible’s change the original word TO “person” Animal" Creature" and others…people are not getting the true meaning of what the Bible teaches.

JL: As a Catholic I have no problem with the different meanings of nephesh in scripture. It’s meaning depends on the CONTEXT Dj. In your following paragraph you have posted, as WT teaching, “**Scriptures show “soul” TO BE a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.] [That’s a contradiction to your above canned WT remarks, isn’t it?

I notice you have posted no specific scriptures, as EVIDENCE. Where those BIBLE’S have CHANGED the ORIGINAL word, Why? Because it’s the WT blowing smoke in the JW’s face, so they focus on the smoke rather that the truth.

…BUT, when you study the Bible with us, you come to see the REAL teaching of the soul. How? because you see the original-language terms (Heb., ne’phesh ???]; Gr., psy·khe’ ???]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. Only God can “kill” the life a person enjoys" forever.**

JL: I will post your paragraph before this one as my answer: “The word soul is in the Bible over 800 times but because so many Bible’s change the original word TO “person” Animal" Creature" and others…people are not getting the true meaning of what the Bible teaches.Well here is the contradiction stated above,”]

Yes, humans and animals are nephesh=living beings. But our Lord seems to be under the impression, the nature of the living human being, called man is BOTH, soul and body and the soul of man lives on after bodily death. Do you suppose our Lord didn’t know what “Nephesh” meant? Our Lord reveals in Mt 10:28, when there is bodily death the soul does not die, God alone has authority (judgment) over the disposition of the soul.

The fact is the WT in their 1000’s of articles tell you ONLY what fits their traditions and cuts short those things that DO not agree with their traditions of men. They contradict themselves and no one notices, because of the many words and twist they go thru, trying to explain the plain truth away. By the time one has read their remarks they have know idea what the point was. The WT does not allow JWs to read the bible individually or in small groups, WHY? What are they afraid of?

Do you think bible scholars do not know nephesh is Hebrew, psykhe is Greek etc. Yes the Scriptures show soul to be the whole person, an animal or the life force. In Mt10:28 the scriptures clearly reveal the soul of man lives after bodily death.

By the way you have NEVER answerd, where does that LIVING SOUL go before God casts BOTH body and soul into the lake of fire at the END?

 

[jlhargus]

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.

JL: The Greeks believed to be free of the body was the object of the soul or spirit.

Christ teaches MAN is BOTH soul and BODY, man is not complete without BOTH body AND soul. In other words the body is not something bad holding the spirit down till the spirit can free itself from the body. The Christian knows the body AND soul will be united once again at the resurrection.

Notice YOUR post # 172, Protestants who identify Michael as Jesus Christ, 3 Sep 09; forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5655657&postcount=172
[Peter also describes the hope such ones possess as “precious and very grand promises, that through these you may become sharers in divine nature.” (2Pe 1:4) [COLOR=“Blue”]They must undergo a change of nature, giving up human nature to obtain “divine” nature, thus sharing with Christ in his glory. They must die a death like Christ’s—maintaining integrity and giving up human life forever—and then they receive immortal, incorruptible bodies like Christ’s by a resurrection. (Ro 6:3-5; 1Co 15:50-57; 2Co 5:1-3)]

The WT unwittingly has confirmed Christ IS God saying He has a DIVINE NATURE. Christ does have a DIVINE NATURE because He is God. God alone has A DIVINE NATURE. The WT says the 144 thousand will not have the NATURE of a HUMAN BEING, but they undergo a CHANGE OF NATURE giving up HUMAN NATURE to OBTAIN DIVINE NATURE.] If the 144 thousand’s NATURE BECOME DIVINE that would make those 144 thousand equal to God in dignity if not power. So that would make 144,000.01 gods. God and ONLY God has a DIVINE NATURE and there is NONE beside HIM. There is only ONE GOD the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, God ALONE is DIVINE.

Those who belong to Christ share God’s divine nature when our God indwells the soul, but man’s nature does not become DIVINE. We do actually become his adopted children SHARING his very NATURE, when baptized by water and the Spirit and receiving his divine nature by the indwelling Holy Sprit.

All God’s people, not 144 thousand only, even here on earth share his divine nature as long as we are in grace. In fact his divine nature MUST be indwelling us while we are still alive on earth. We cannot receive it after death, it is received before death or not at all. that indwelling, sharing of divine nature, IS the gift of eternal life.

Notice again YOUR post; [The apostle Paul explains that it is not the body that is resurrected, but rather, he likens their experience to the planting and sprouting of a seed, in that “God gives IT a body just as it has pleased him.” (1Co 15:35-40) ‘‘IT’’ is the soul, the person, that is resurrected, with a body to suit the environment into which God resurrects him. “] (I added the caps and bold black print to your post)

Tell me would this ‘‘IT’’, which the WT says IS the SOUL, NOT the resurrected BODY, be immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal? If not then what is this ‘‘IT=SOUL’’ that gets ANOTHER body? Have you ever seen this material IT, which is NOT the BODY? Well now if the body is not resurrected then we can DISCOUNT the WT insistence NEPHESH is ALWAYS the body or WHOLE PERSON, isn’t that a total contradiction? Good grief what a convoluted twist to follow.

Again If “IT” is NOT the BODY then IT must be the SOUL, as you state above. Then the WT has also unwittingly admitted the soul is a spirit. What else could it be if IT’S NOT the body or whole person. IT is just as Christ tells us in Mt10:28 man is BOTH body AND soul=IT and Christ tells us that the soul does NOT die with the body. The WT twist is more like pagan Greek philosophy. What a convoluted contradiction. CONTINUED:

 

[jlhargus]

In direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy•khe’ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy•khe’ and ne’phesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

JL: Well then please explain if the body is not raised, but ‘‘IT’’ gets a new body. Would ‘‘IT’’, which is NOT the body, be material, tangible, visible, and mortal? If so have you ever seen ‘‘IT’’?

Tell me why would those who wrote the GREEK NT, inspired by God, use a Greek word psykhe, as you say means immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, to EXPRESS the exact oposite of what the WORD means? If you wanted to express in English something material, tangible, visible, and mortal, would you use the English WORD spirit or ghost? Not unless you want to confuse everyone.

Yes nephesh and psykhe are used different ways in scripture, meaning depends on context, Gn 2:7 living creature=whole person, Ps 42:2 seat of emotion, and immortal in Mt10:28, Gn35:18.

Jer51:14 The LORD of hosts hath sworn by HIMSELF (NEPHESH, Hebrew),… [Amos 6:8 The Lord GOD hath sworn by HIMSELF (NEPHESH)…, Job23:13 But he is in one mind and who can turn him? And what his SOUL (NEPHESH) desireth, even that he doeth]. Ps11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his SOUL (NEPHESH) hateth].

NEPHESH, is speaking of God himself, In this context, nothing could be more IMMATERIAL, INTANGIBLE, INVISIBLE, IMMORTAL, or CONSCIOUS than nephesh in this CONTEXT.

[1Kgs 17:21 Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried to the Lord, O Lord my God, let this child’s SOUL (NEPHESH) come into him again. 23 And the Lord listened to the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL (NEPHESH) of the child came into him again, and he revived.

[Gn35:18 And AS HER SOUL (NEPHESH) WAS DEPARTING (for she died), she called his name Ben-o’ni; but his father called his name Benjamin.]

Zech12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, WHICH stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and FORMETH THE spirit (ruwach, Aramaic) OF MAN WITHIN HIM. ruwach, Aramaic per Strong’s Hebrew Definition for # 07308 apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=07308

Lk8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. 54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. 55 And HER spirit (pneuma) CAME AGAIN, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

CONTINUED:

 

[jlhargus]

CONTINUED:

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “Nepes [ne’phesh] is a term of far greater extension than our ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man—man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).”—1967, Vol. XIII, p. 467.

JL: I have no problem with what The New Catholic Encyclopedia says. I am always leery of ANY WT so called quotes.

If the man IS the soul, if one kills the man he kills the soul=man, if body and soul are the same thing, where does the BOTH come in Mt 10:28? And what is the “IT” which gets another body, which you spoke of?

Eccl 12:7 Then shall THE DUST RETURN TO THE EARTH as it was: and THE SPIRIT (ruwach, Aramaic) shall return UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT.

The body which God created from dust, returns to dust. The spirt returns to God who gave it.

Ps104:4 Who maketh his angels SPIRITS; (ruwach) his ministers a flaming fire:

Dan7:15 I Daniel was grieved in MY spirit (ruwach, Aramaic) IN THE MIDST OF MY BODY, and the visions of my head troubled me.

Acts17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, HIS SPIRIT (pneuma) was stirred IN HIM, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

1Cor2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, SAVE THE SPIRIT (pneuma) OF MAN which is IN HIM? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit (pneuma) of God.

[Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, RECEIVE MY SPIRIT. (pneuma)] If Christ receives Stephen’s breath, we can bet it isn’t BAD breath.

[Rv6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, **I SAW under the altar THE SOULS (psuche) OF THEM that were SLAIN for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And THEY cried with A LOUD VOICE, SAYING, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?] Obviously dead persons, aren’t they?.

Lk23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I COMMEND MY SPIRIT: (pneuma) and having said thus, HE GAVE UP THE GHOST. (pneuma)

2Cor5:6 Therefore we are always CONFIDENT, knowing that, WHILST we are at HOME IN THE BODY, we are ABSENT FROM THE LORD: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are CONFIDENT, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM THE BODY, and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.]

Do you think by absent from the body, Paul PREFERS to be our of existence or PRESENT WITH THE LORD?
I will let this be my answer for your continued posts on the soul in posts 485-488 if you think you have a point in one of those post then post that point and I will be glad to address it.

 

[jlhargus]

The following is just an excerpt of one of our books…respectfully, see if you can even begin to follow the reasoning. Isaiah 52:1-12

2 Jehovah, through Isaiah, calls out to His beloved city, Zion: “Wake up, wake up, put on your strength, OZion! Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city! For no more will there come again into you the uncircumcised and unclean one. Shake yourself free from the dust, rise up, take a seat, O Jerusalem. Loosen for yourself the bands on your neck, O captive daughter of Zion*.” (Isaiah 52:1, 2) Because her inhabitants have provoked Jehovah’s anger, Jerusalem has lain desolate for 70 years. (2*Kings 24:4; 2 Chronicles 36:15-21; Jeremiah 25:8-11; Daniel 9:2) Now it is time for her to wake up from her long period of inactivity and don the beautiful garments of liberty. Jehovah has moved the heart of Cyrus to free the “captive daughter of Zion” so that the former inhabitants of Jerusalem and their offspring can leave Babylon, return to Jerusalem, and restore true worship. No uncircumcised and unclean ones must be found in Jerusalem.—Ezra 1:1-4.

3 These words of Isaiah also have a fulfillment on the Christian congregation. The congregation of anointed Christians can be described as the modern-day “daughter of Zion,” since “Jerusalem above” is their mother. Set free from pagan teachings and apostate doctrines, the anointed must maintain a clean standing before Jehovah, no, not by being circumcised in the flesh, but by being circumcised in their hearts. (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 2:25-29) This includes maintaining spiritual, mental, and moral cleanness before Jehovah.—1*Corinthians 7:19; Ephesians 2:3.

4 True, “Jerusalem above” has never disobeyed Jehovah. During the first world war, however, her representatives on earth—anointed Christians—unwittingly broke Jehovah’s law because they did not properly understand true Christian neutrality. Losing divine favor, they came into spiritual captivity to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 17:5) Their condition of being in slavery climaxed in June 1918 when eight staff members of the Watch Tower Society were imprisoned on false charges, including conspiracy. At that point the organized preaching of the good news virtually stopped. In 1919, however, a clarion call to spiritual wakefulness was sounded forth. Anointed Christians began to separate themselves more completely from the moral and spiritual uncleanness of Babylon the Great. They rose from the dust of captivity, and “Jerusalem above” came to have the splendor of a “holy city” where spiritual uncleanness is not allowed.

Jehovah’s enemies had not learned any lessons from history. We read: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: ‘It was to Egypt that my people went down in the first instance to reside there as aliens; and without cause Assyria, for its part, oppressed them.’” (Isaiah 52:4) Pharaoh of Egypt enslaved the Israelites, who had been invited to his land to reside as guests. But Jehovah drowned Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea. (Exodus 1:11-14; 14:27, 28) When King Sennacherib of Assyria threatened Jerusalem, Jehovah’s angel struck down 185,000 of the king’s soldiers. (Isaiah 37:33-37) Similarly, neither ancient Babylon nor Babylon the Great can escape the consequences of oppressing God’s people.

JL: Yes our Lord is calling out his people. As Peter tells us; ALL who believe, repent, are baptized for remission of sins and receive the Holy Spirit, THE PROMISE is for YOU and YOUR CHILDREN, Act2:38-39. You have never answered my question, is baptism ONLY for 144 thousand and THEIR children? Christ tells us in Jn3 we MUST be born again. He tells us how, by water and the Spirit.

Those of God’s people who have bodily died, their souls or spirits are now in the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM our mother the Church IN heaven, [Hb12:22 But ye are come UNTO MOUNT SION, and unto the CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and TO an innumerable COMPANY OF ANGELS, 23 TO the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and TO **THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 24 And TO JESUS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.] along with the great crowd of witness, Hb12:1, which include Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, [Mt8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down WITH ABRAHAM, and ISAAC, and JACOB,IN the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.].

[Rv21: 2 And I JOHN SAW THE holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, **COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, prepared AS A BRIDE adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, and HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM, and be their God.]

Who does Paul tell us IS the BRIDE? Eph5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For WE ARE MEMBERS OF HIS FLESH, AND OF HIS BONES. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and THEY TWO SHALL BE ONE FLESH. 32 THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY: but I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.

 

[jlhargus]

“My People Will Know My Name”

7 The captive condition of Jehovah’s people has an effect on his name, as the prophecy shows: “‘Now, what interest do I have here?’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘***For my people were taken for nothing. The very ones ruling over them kept howling,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘and constantly, all day long, my name was being treated with disrespect. For that reason my people will know my name, even for that reason in that day, because I am the One that is speaking. Look! It is I.’” (***Isaiah 52:5, 6) What interest does Jehovah have in the situation? What concern of his is it that Israel is enslaved in Babylon? Jehovah must act because Babylon has taken his people captive and has howled over them in triumph. Such bragging has led to Babylon’s treating Jehovah’s name disrespectfully. (Ezekiel 36:20, 21)

I do not expect you to understand this or even enjoy it. Remember it is just an excerpt. Imagine what you are missing in all the other verses and chapters.

JL: Problem is the WT does not KNOW nor USE the correct NAME of God. The WT admits Jehovah IS NOT the CORRECT NAME. No Hebrew scholar would say that Jehovah is the correct name of God.

I have read every word of your canned WT posts I find nothing interesting or revealing in those remarks which change nothing. They are simply WT traditions of men. And quite frankly I am missing nothing not reading them and you are wasting your time reading them over the scriptures. Which you are not allowed to read, are you? Why? So you can fill you mind with WT traditions, focusing your attention on smoke instead of the God’s Word. The WT writes great fiction, I don’t like reading fiction.

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]

JL: Problem is the WT does not KNOW nor USE the correct NAME of God. The WT admits Jehovah IS NOT the CORRECT NAME. No Hebrew scholar would say that Jehovah is the correct name of God.

I have read every word of your canned WT posts I find nothing interesting or revealing in those remarks which change nothing. They are simply WT traditions of men. And quite frankly I am missing nothing not reading them and you are wasting your time reading them over the scriptures. Which you are not allowed to read, are you? Why? So you can fill you mind with WT traditions, focusing your attention on smoke instead of the God’s Word. The WT writes great fiction, I don’t like reading fiction.

[/SIGN]

jlhargus, you have made many statements that I MUST address, I have not left–but I am very busy …yet, I will reply in the next day or so…you are in for what may be a sobering surprise!

 

[jlhargus]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

jlhargus, you have made many statements that I MUST address, I have not left–but I am very busy …yet, I will reply in the next day or so…you are in for what may be a sobering surprise!

JL: Still waiting.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

Jesus is God but in human form. The trinity is really difficult to understand but people need to know that JESUS is not God the Father Amighty. So to answer your question Yes JESUS is GOD but not in the form of the father but they are the same person.

 

[davidv]

Jesus is God but in human form. The trinity is really difficult to understand but people need to know that JESUS is not God the Father Amighty. So to answer your question Yes JESUS is GOD but not in the form of the father but they are the same person.

This is not quite correct. Jesus is a separate person. He is one being with the Father.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

This is not quite correct. Jesus is a separate person. He is one being with the Father.

Thank you for correcting me. The trinity is really confusing.

 

[davidv]

Thank you for correcting me. The trinity is really confusing.

:tiphat:

 

[Martin_R]

Matthew 14 NASB
29And He said, “Come!” And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
30But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!”
31Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?”
32When they got into the boat, the wind stopped.
33And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!”

You’d think that after seeing this and other miracles, people would be saying," You must be God.", but no, they stuck with what Jesus told them. Surely we should do the same.

You’d also expect a 3 in 1 parable but there isn’t one.

 

[NotWorthy]

You’d think that after seeing this and other miracles, people would be saying," You must be God.", but no, they stuck with what Jesus told them. Surely we should do the same.

You’d also expect a 3 in 1 parable but there isn’t one.

I don’t think the Apostles ever proved that they had a clue about anything, until they received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

This scenario you present proves nothing.

But, to your question about sticking to what Jesus told them, didn’t He declare that He was God? Not in so many words, but He made the point abundantly clear.

 

[Brywan]

He was indeed the Son of God, which means that God is His father:

John 5:18 “18 Hereupon therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he did not only break the sabbath, but also said God was his Father, making himself equal to God.”

You see, Jesus being the Son of God implies equality, the Jews knew that. There’s also John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.”

I ask you to have faith in Christ and believe Him when He says He is God.

Pax,
Zach

P.S. There are many other instances where Jesus claims to be God.

P.P.S. A mere human’s death could not have taken away the sin of the world.

I haven’t had a chance to read all the posts in detail in this thread, so I apologize if someone has already hit this. I think it’s important for the OP to understand why the Jews thought that Jesus was making himself equal to God by calling God his Father. I think a lot of people (unbelievers) assume that when Jesus called God His father, he was somehow regarding himself as less than God. The Jews interpreted this differently, however. Why? I would like the OP to address this in particular: In what way is a son (any son–not just Jesus!) equal to his father?

 

[grace_singh]

Jesus is clear throughout the Gospels that He is distinct from and under the Father.

at the same time He reveals often that He shares in the Father’s nature, will, person, power, authroity, and holiness, that He and the Father are One, and that we are to honor Him (the Son) as we honor God the Father.

Jesus also indicates to us that He hears and answers our prayers (John 14:13-14), letting us know that we can pray to Him for help and for specific things, too.

so Jesus is not God, the Father. but He is the image, holiness, power, and grace of God, made Man in history, through whom we must go to recieve eternal life, know God personally, be saved from our sins, and belong to Him. if we belong to Jesus, we belong to and are of God. if we do not belong to Jesus, we do not truly belong to or have fellowship with God, the Father.

Jesus is God the Son, whom the Father sent of and from Himself to save us, and give us life in Himself. that is the simplest way i think we can say it.

 

[Monte1945]

Jesus is clear throughout the Gospels that He is distinct from and under the Father.

Three forms of the same complete nature… Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
all God in a different form… The Trinity…

example:
water
Ice, Steam and Liquid

Same nature different forms of the same.

when I was in my bible studies at the seminary we were taught that
in the King James Version of the scriptures there was a name
for God… “I am” and no Jew was allowed to say that name.

When Jesus was asked who he was at various time he would answer

I am He

The word “He” was always in italic as it meant the printers of the bible added
the word he, because what Jesus actually said was “I am” which was
the exact name of God and that was how the Jews knew he was saying
he was God… So from that printing point… you can say that Jesus
said he was God directly… A jew of that time would know this.

The closet scripture I have ever seen dealing with this idea is:

1 John 5:7 (King James Version)

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.