E
EndTimes
Guest
Yes. I had it wrong… And, Abortion remains Wrong.
Last edited:
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Is There any Difference between Supporting Woman Privacy Right & Supporting Abortion?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
F
francisca.chapter3
Guest
Jesus said this to the Pharisee Nicodemus,This doesn’t make sense. If you are concerned about the privacy of the mother, aren’t you concerned similarly about the privacy of the child?
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
The spirit of porn-- the spirit that fail to recognize the dignity of the human person-- propagates itself in another form: hence abortion.
Hodos is right that I know nothing of court law. I recognize the spirit whose will is to kill humans (John8:44).
To only ensure the birth of the flesh (fetus), without paying attention to the spirit, won’t work.
The spirit gives birth to the same spirit, and propagates itself in many other forms but essentially the same spirit.
Have any of you heard about honour killing? I watch some of those documentary. Usually a woman being raped or expose herself in sexual way, and then her own family member (father, or brother) kill her for the family honour based on extreme puritan religious teaching. This kind of teaching is a derivative of the same spirit. But what I learn from such a documentary is this: that deep inside our souls, we want a dignified life. We don’t want just about any life. We want a dignified life. So, when that dignity is taken away, the sense of that loss, kills.
For me, its about how to manage that inevitable outcome.
When porn & promiscuity make money & exploiting women and children, we allow this to happen. Stop and ban porn & promiscuity culture, and abortion will stop too.
This is not merely psychology. This is spiritual.
Last edited:
P
pnewton
Guest
All Catholics are not called to vote Republican though. That is not something the Church has ever said. I would say your first premise is not an accurate description of what the Church has said. The second premise is undeniably true, but it applies to the platform, not the candidate.We may never stop Abortion this side of our Lord Jesus’ Return . .
However, ALL Catholics are called to not Vote for Pro-Abortion Political Candidates…
And the Platform OF the Democrat Party is solidly Pro-Abortion
Rather than tell other Catholics how to vote, I believe it better to point to the teacher, the Church, and emphasize the formation of the conscience.
J
Jimbo
Guest
reply part one:
I’m in agreement that porn and promiscuity should be curtailed, and indeed with many of the things you say as being in line with human dignity. Indeed, abortion, porn, promiscuity… all are wrapped up in part of a larger overall sin of dehumanizing people for personal gain. Porn and promiscuity depersonalize the individual for pleasure; and damages both people.
Abortion dehumanizes the baby for real or imagined gain; and again damages the mother and kills the child. (I recognize that some women feel forced into abortion; either by real force or by circumstances. They are, to my mind, victims too).
I do have a question; do you, or do you not, support outlawing abortion?
I’m in agreement that porn and promiscuity should be curtailed, and indeed with many of the things you say as being in line with human dignity. Indeed, abortion, porn, promiscuity… all are wrapped up in part of a larger overall sin of dehumanizing people for personal gain. Porn and promiscuity depersonalize the individual for pleasure; and damages both people.
Abortion dehumanizes the baby for real or imagined gain; and again damages the mother and kills the child. (I recognize that some women feel forced into abortion; either by real force or by circumstances. They are, to my mind, victims too).
I do have a question; do you, or do you not, support outlawing abortion?
J
Jimbo
Guest
Reply part II
Because while I agree with much of what you say I disagree with the premise that by handling porn and promiscuity abortion will disappear, cut it down? Sure. Eliminate it? No. Further, I don’t think we should just point our efforts at ending porn and promiscuity any more than we should just point our efforts at ending abortion. Both are part of a culture of death and dehumanization that has to be dealt with. I don’t know many pro life people who are so single minded that they ignore things like porn or honor killings. They know that like porn and honor killings abortion is violence against women; so they fight those things. I don’t know anyone who is pro life who wants to only address the flesh, and not the spirit
They do triage it though.
Off the top of my head something like 900,000 abortions take place, every year, in the US alone. And those numbers are down. Nearly a million deaths. Include the rest of the world and those numbers skyrocket. If you have to pick a place to focus alot of effort to combat the culture of death and dehumanization, that’s a good one. And yes, focus on the rest of the culture too; that’s the best way to make it stop. But abortion is part of that culture and you can’t ignore it and focus on the rest and hope things turn out for the best.
Sorry for the broken up response. I keep bumping into the character limit.
Because while I agree with much of what you say I disagree with the premise that by handling porn and promiscuity abortion will disappear, cut it down? Sure. Eliminate it? No. Further, I don’t think we should just point our efforts at ending porn and promiscuity any more than we should just point our efforts at ending abortion. Both are part of a culture of death and dehumanization that has to be dealt with. I don’t know many pro life people who are so single minded that they ignore things like porn or honor killings. They know that like porn and honor killings abortion is violence against women; so they fight those things. I don’t know anyone who is pro life who wants to only address the flesh, and not the spirit
They do triage it though.
Off the top of my head something like 900,000 abortions take place, every year, in the US alone. And those numbers are down. Nearly a million deaths. Include the rest of the world and those numbers skyrocket. If you have to pick a place to focus alot of effort to combat the culture of death and dehumanization, that’s a good one. And yes, focus on the rest of the culture too; that’s the best way to make it stop. But abortion is part of that culture and you can’t ignore it and focus on the rest and hope things turn out for the best.
Sorry for the broken up response. I keep bumping into the character limit.
J
Jimbo
Guest
To only ensure the birth of the flesh (fetus), without paying attention to the spirit, won’t work.
The spirit gives birth to the same spirit, and propagates itself in many other forms but essentially the same spirit.
If you are simply arguing that we have to worry about privacy and spiritual care in addition to banning abortion I’m in your corner.This doesn’t make sense. If you are concerned about the privacy of the mother, aren’t you concerned similarly about the privacy of the child?
If you want to not work to ban or outlaw abortion thinking that privacy and spiritual care are superior then you undermine your own point; and I disagree with your premise.
I’ll reinforce my statement in the second quote above. Saying you are all about spiritual care and privacy doesn’t mean much if you can’t even respect the most basic right at all; that of life. There is no privacy without life. There is no spirtual life in this world without life. You can’t be free in this world without life.
E
EndTimes
Guest
Sure… And I’ve never said that Catholics are Called to Must Vote RepublicanAll Catholics are not called to vote Republican though
That said, there exists Voting GUIDELINES for Catholics -
including notes re: Pro-Abortion Candidates.
Last edited:
A
Aquinas11
Guest
Like saying “When alcohol makes money & gets men drunk, we allow drunk men to beat their wives. Stop and ban alcohol and men will stop beating their wives! No need to ban the beating of women!”When porn & promiscuity make money & exploiting women and children, we allow this to happen. Stop and ban porn & promiscuity culture, and abortion will stop too.
P
pnewton
Guest
What is wrong with that, if it was a given that all alcohol was evil?
E
EndTimes
Guest
Methinks you clearly missed Aquinas11’s point…!What is wrong with that, if it was a given that all alcohol was evil?
" Stop and ban porn & promiscuity culture, and abortion will stop too. " ?
No Way…
Whereas it’s possible to stop porn, LUST and promiscuity can not be stopped by Man.
Ergo - Banning All Abortion WorldWide - would be a massive Help in eradicating Abortion,
but even that alone would not stop some from procuring illegal Abortion…
_
Last edited:
A
Aquinas11
Guest
The point is why only ban the alcohol? Why not ban the beating of women too?What is wrong with that, if it was a given that all alcohol was evil?
Why only ban porn? Why not ban abortion too?
Why only ban a contributor to evil act? Why not ban the evil act also?
Last edited:
P
pnewton
Guest
Perhaps you missed mine. I gave a very significant difference. That what he said was not, “Like saying…” at all. Look at your post. It is obviously true. Those are things that we cannot ban. So should they be illegal, or a matter of choice; where one is personally against it, but thinks people should be free to make up their own mind.Methinks you clearly missed Aquinas11’s point…!
Abortion did not become legal in a vacuum. I do not see how it can be overturned and become illegal again as a stand-alone issue. Abortion is a deadly serious issue and one we all should fight, as we see fit. For me, it is not the only issue I believe this about. I also believe it equally strongly about adultery, as that is a great evil as well. It does not take the life of the innocent, but it does destroy the family unit, causing serious harm to millions of children, and is not less deadly to this country than abortion, at least in that one area.
Twist my arm! That would be a great. I would also throw in default divorce.Why only ban porn? Why not ban abortion too?
Last edited:
E
EndTimes
Guest
Okay. And…Look at your post. It is obviously true. Those are things that we cannot ban. So should they be illegal, or a matter of choice; where one is personally against it, but thinks people should be free to make up their own mind. Abortion did not become legal in a vacuum. I do not see how it can be overturned and become illegal again as a stand-alone issue. Abortion is a deadly serious issue and one we all should fight, as we see fit. For me, it is not the only issue I believe this about. I also believe it equally strongly about adultery, as that is a great evil as well. It does not take the life of the innocent, but it does destroy the family unit, causing serious harm to millions of children, and is not less deadly to this country than abortion, at least in that one area.
What becomes banned or not? …
Although Questions, Plural - and Important - is still not our bottom line.
We do what we must do, and, teach what we can about God’s POV on ABORTION, et cetera -
And One Fine Day - all that is Evil shall be no more -
Last edited:
A
Aquinas11
Guest
So if alcohol is “evil”, you’re ok with just banning alcohol and not banning beating women. Cause that’s the OP’s logic with just banning porn and not banning abortion.That what he said was not, “Like saying…” at all.
P
pnewton
Guest
Perhaps the OP might clarify. I saw here comparing the two, not saying we should ban porn and keep abortion legal.
@francisca.chapter3
Can you clarify?
@francisca.chapter3
Can you clarify?
Last edited:
F
francisca.chapter3
Guest
I am saying, prolife movement should include speak against porn too, and not merely trying to ban abortion.
It is easier to ban abortion. My worry is, the exact opposite of this quote:
“But porn, is part of that culture and you can’t ignore it and focus on banning abortion and hope things turn out for the best”.
Because when porn business as usual, things will not turn out for the best. Porn will be banned one day, but it will be too late by then. My prediction: we will become the children of hagar: even christian people will believe in the teaching of subduing women, instead of loving them. Privacy? No respect for privacy. Which slaves have privacy? Nope. Polygami will be accepted as normal consequence of mans sexual needs (and-- consequently-- the teaching of God who is faithful to Israel, will be replaced with god who wills many different religions to cater mans political need, ofcourse). The children of these will succumb to dictatorship & power greed because they are essentially slaves to it. Our democracy and freedom will become a mask of politics. We will prefer dictatorship where everything good is decided by authority. Critical thinking will ultimately be banned (based on religion). Women has to cover their head face and whole body because woman’s body is seen as the root of sin, while men are entitled to sexual sin, because nobody believe that man is capable to control his body anymore.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law.
It is easier to ban abortion. My worry is, the exact opposite of this quote:
This is my worry: which is the opposite of the above quote:But abortion is part of that culture and you can’t ignore it and focus on the rest and hope things turn out for the best.
“But porn, is part of that culture and you can’t ignore it and focus on banning abortion and hope things turn out for the best”.
Because when porn business as usual, things will not turn out for the best. Porn will be banned one day, but it will be too late by then. My prediction: we will become the children of hagar: even christian people will believe in the teaching of subduing women, instead of loving them. Privacy? No respect for privacy. Which slaves have privacy? Nope. Polygami will be accepted as normal consequence of mans sexual needs (and-- consequently-- the teaching of God who is faithful to Israel, will be replaced with god who wills many different religions to cater mans political need, ofcourse). The children of these will succumb to dictatorship & power greed because they are essentially slaves to it. Our democracy and freedom will become a mask of politics. We will prefer dictatorship where everything good is decided by authority. Critical thinking will ultimately be banned (based on religion). Women has to cover their head face and whole body because woman’s body is seen as the root of sin, while men are entitled to sexual sin, because nobody believe that man is capable to control his body anymore.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law.
Last edited:
J
Jimbo
Guest
So you are for outlawing abortion and porn?
Last edited:
F
francisca.chapter3
Guest
Sure.So you are for outlawing abortion and porn?
I am for both.
I think that prolife should mean one against porn & promiscuity too. It should be taught this way.
Separating prolife from porn is still separating sex from reproduction context.
The mom and the clinic are mere conspirators in the fetus murder. The real perpetrators are porn and promiscuity of the individuals and of the society that corner these women & their fetus.
Being prolife but supporting porn business is a dishonesty. No matter how accurate the moral doctrine is defined, it won’t work. It sounds empty. If one concern so much of the fetus, one should concern more of the promiscuous culture and speak up against it too. Pray and block your youtube & google account from all porn. Live a chaste life.
Last edited:
R
Rau
Guest
But it doesn’t need to be one or the other, does it? How about the church be more outspoken on porn and continue to defend the unborn? Would that be ok?By not speaking against porn, but force women to carry term, as easier way out, is, in my opinion, succumbing to the world.
But there is more than promiscuity which drives abortion.
Last edited:
F
francisca.chapter3
Guest
Ofcourse that is okay. The church teach that we should not separate sex from reproductions context. So in the same way, to talk about banning abortion without seriously talk about banning porn is not consistent with her own teaching.How about the church be more outspoken on porn and continue to defend the unborn? Would that be ok?
Prolife must be taught to men too. How a prolife men should behave. Imagine how many babies a permissive man could potentially make, as comparison to a permissive woman could potentially carry through out a life time. With simple math we know by simply forcing all women to carry term will stll lack if men are permissive and even many become sex addict.
With that simple math we know where the culture will go if we demand moral from women, but allow permissive culture of men to thrive and even make billions in exploitation business.
Along the way we will be teaching partial moral doctrine which eventually will become a mere misogynistic puritantism which in turn forbid anybody to speak up against it, because that is the nature & the essence of it: dictatorship & slavery for women at the beginning, but will end up as dictatorship & slavery for her children too, thus for everybody in its claws.
Woman & her children suffering will be more then than now. And these people love war too, because they seek to find their lost honour/ dignity they cannot find both at home and in the society they live in.
Luke 23
28 But Jesus turning to them said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children.
29 For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!’
30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us’; and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’
31 For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.