John 3:16

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I like the parallel with 1st John.

The way we came to know love was that he laid down his life for us; so we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 John 3:16)
 
Strategery said:
What does “believe” mean?
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It means one “Who knows and acknowledges” God as the Creator of everything and everyone. And keeps everything in existance.

One who knows, accepts and lives that God is the Author of Live and Death issues and decissions

It means one who has knowledge of the One True Chruch that He founded. The RCC.

It means accepting the RCC Bible as the one true bible / complete bible, and that we are not permmited to pick and choose what we will believe nad what we will reject.The bible is a Catholic book!

It means accepting Jesus Christ as our Redeemer (which by the way is NOT the same as saying He is our Salvation.) Which too is true, BUT with conditions attanched: Christian Baptism, the 10 Commandments, The Beautitudes, charity to all, and Good Works.

God came to save all, but fails to do so, because some do not accept Him, some do not accept His Holy Bible (RCC version), and some fall for false, unfounded doctrine that “all one has to do is believe in Him.” It’ s not biblical, and it’s not true. It’s not even logical and denies the the essential attributes of God.
 
Strategery said:
Thanks for your honesty, now we’re getting somewhere.

I think your impression is mistaken, at least with me personally. I’m not squirmish at all disucssing John 3:16.

It doesn’t appear that you are valuing the time we’re spending on what “believe” means. Just 20 verses later, in the same discourse, Christ himself identifies disobedience as the opposite of belief. There are many other places in the new testament that support this.

You’re perceiving all of this as a need to “work for salvation”, which are buzzwords in the Protestant paradigm. The point that you’re not getting is this: submission to God’s will and obdedience to God’s commands **are ** belief, not a result of belief. There is no belief without obedience.
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A manifestation of belief, perhaps?
 
DD2007 said:
A manifestation of belief, perhaps?
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For fallible flesh to have their own gospel, or for a salesman to promote an incomplete package advertising it as though it were a whole package, then it’s good enough to have “faith alone” as belief with optional works. Fallible men whose flesh interferes with the Spirit, making their own gospel to be easy for one in the flesh to understand and buy into, will miss the fuller meaning. Christ’s Gospel requires a higher standard than fallible flesh. The kind of believing that Christ asks for from His family includes faith and works as believing (active, not passive, nor a one-time statement of faith long ago). If you want to comply partially with what Christ requires, that’s up to you. Try to sell that incomplete package at Heaven’s gate, and see what response you get… same type of response as you’re getting here. You can not say that you haven’t been exposed to a better understanding, but may only be able to say that you have seen and rejected.
 
Strategery said:
I used to think that until I considered scripture very closely. Christ’s call for obedience in the gospels is crystal clear.
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Obedience can only happen by grace. We cannot choose God he chooses us.

John 6:65

[65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Ephesians 1:3-8

[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
[4] even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
[5] He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
[6] to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
[8] which he lavished upon us.

So, since you are obedient and desire to do the will of God, thank him for his grace and lets reflect on his love as shown in this scripture:

John 3:16

[16]
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

😃
 
DD2007 said:
Obedience can only happen by grace. We cannot choose God he chooses us.

John 6:65

[65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” …

…So, since you are obedient and desire to do the will of God, thank him for his grace and lets reflect on his love as shown in this scripture:

John 3:16

[16]
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

😃
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Do you have free will to accept or reject God’s love? For example, can you choose to believe in Christ or choose not to believe in Him? Do you have free will to believe in “faith alone” or did God choose you and command that you believe in “faith alone”? Can we choose to believe in a false gospel, or choose to believe in the true Gospel of Christ?
 
MDK said:
Do you have free will to accept or reject God’s love? For example, can you choose to believe in Christ or choose not to believe in Him? Do you have free will to believe in “faith alone” or did God choose you and command that you believe in “faith alone”? Can we choose to believe in a false gospel, or choose to believe in the true Gospel of Christ?
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Don’t you know what we Calvinist’s believe? Here is a link: monergism.com/ Reformed Theology is far too detailed and off topic to go into on scriptural edification thread.

Can’t we just focus on what a relief it is to be told that God loves us as much as he does? John 3:16.
 
DD2007 said:
Nope. That’s not what this is about. That would be in the apologetics area. I just wanted to post John 3:16. 🙂
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Not a problem.

I just wanted to post in #65 & #66 what John 3:16 actually means.
 
DD2007 said:
Don’t you know what we Calvinist’s believe? Here is a link: monergism.com/ Reformed Theology is far too detailed and off topic to go into on scriptural edification thread.

Can’t we just focus on what a relief it is to be told that God loves us as much as he does? John 3:16.
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Well, it was a simple question… that you apparently won’t answer (there’s no reason to feel threatened by the truth). It’s not complicated at all. Knowing what you believe is what I asked, and it makes a salient point… none of which you can answer and still keep trying to project the falsehoods.

Those who want to interpret in a literalistic manner will miss many of the real and true meanings. For instance, if the sentence read “it’s raining cats and dogs”, then you would be telling us to meditate on that while seeking shelter for God is warning us of this danger… cats and dogs are going to fall from the sky.

We can focus on God’s word and do, promoting the reality of it. We see what you’re claiming about the meaning of God’s word is not legitimate. Why do you want to get others to focus on a sentence without knowing what it means, or then when you do attempt meaning then try to promote a false meaning?

When a door-to-door, or in your case, thread-to-thread salesman comes up with a nice package with Christ’s words on it, we Catholics want to know what you claim is inside. We know very well that it’s appropriate to ask. Let’s please not pretend not to know what you’ve attempted to promote. It’s just that Catholics who are in tune with the true teaching of Christ, are a little too wary of those selling a “pacco” which my Italian wife tells me is the empty box (in this case, empty of meaning) that some will try to sell to others. Everyone who knows better, knows it just isn’t quite right to do that.
 
MDK said:
Do you glorify God by emptying His Word of true meaning?
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This is what he meant John 3:16 to say:

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
MDK said:
Well, it was a simple question… that you apparently won’t answer (there’s no reason to feel threatened by the truth). It’s not complicated at all. Knowing what you believe is what I asked, and it makes a salient point… none of which you can answer and still keep trying to project the falsehoods.

Those who want to interpret in a literalistic manner will miss many of the real and true meanings. For instance, if the sentence read “it’s raining cats and dogs”, then you would be telling us to meditate on that while seeking shelter for God is warning us of this danger… cats and dogs are going to fall from the sky.

We can focus on God’s word and do, promoting the reality of it. We see what you’re claiming about the meaning of God’s word is not legitimate. Why do you want to get others to focus on a sentence without knowing what it means, or then trying to promote a false meaning?

When a door-to-door, or in your case, thread-to-thread salesman comes up with a nice package with Christ’s words on it, we Catholics want to know what you claim is inside. We know very well that it’s appropriate to ask. Let’s please not pretend not to know what you’ve attempted to promote. It’s just that Catholics who are in tune with the true teaching of Christ, are a little too wary of those selling a “pacco” which my Italian wife tells me is the empty box (in this case, empty of meaning) that some will try to sell to others. Everyone who knows better, knows it just isn’t quite right to do that.
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I’m not selling you anything. If you want to :slapfight: with a Calvinist go make a thread about that in apologetics. This thread is about John 3:16.

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
DD2007 said:
This is what he meant John 3:16 to say:

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
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Yes, this was written by the inspired Catholic author, in the context of Catholicism. So, when quoted in the context of Calvinistic interpretation, it just doesn’t mean the same thing.

So, you have posted very falsely above… by telling us that you understand the word in the context of Calvinism… then when you quote the Gospel in the context of Calvinism, that is how we understand what you’re saying. The Calvinistic context of John 3:16 is just flat wrong.

See we don’t really share John 3:16, as you have an entirely different context.

Let me please tell you tell you what God told us:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. "

… in the complete context of Catholicism.
 
DD2007 said:
I’m not selling you anything. If you want to :slapfight: with a Calvinist go make a thread about that in apologetics. This thread is about John 3:16.

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
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To read a quote such as John 3:16 coming from you, unfortunately makes it a falsehood in context of your false belief system. It’s like listening to a “pro-choice” politician quoting a verse on freedom in God. We know what that means. The context does matter, and yours doesn’t support the truth of God’s word.
 
MDK said:
Yes, this was written by the inspired Catholic author, in the context of Catholicism. So, when quoted in the context of Calvinistic interpretation, it just doesn’t mean the same thing.

So, you have posted very falsely above… by telling us that you understand the word in the context of Calvinism… then when you quote the Gospel in the context of Calvinism, that is how we understand what you’re saying. The Calvinistic context of John 3:16 is just flat wrong.

See we don’t really share John 3:16, as you have an entirely different context.

Let me please tell you tell you what God told us:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. "

… in the complete context of Catholicism.
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I have posted nothing falsley. I believe what I can believe and that is that Systematic Reformed Theology has done the best at explaining the meaning of scripture. You probably don’t agree. However it doesn’t mean that this verse isn’t inspiring to many people.

RSV

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
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